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How serious is the problem of undocumented immigration?

California has always been a leading example of the "Blade Runner" fate that awaits the nation over the next half century. Is this gonna be great or what?

Funny, I hadn't noticed killer cyborgs roaming the streets. Or flying police cars. Blade Runner (1982) was set in 2019. In Los Angeles. More accurately, a Los Angeles where it rains all the time and is apparently never sunny.

Maybe in the next four or five years Southern California will be plunged into a rainy darkness, but will that be because of illegal immigrants? Probably not.


While we're at it, if the effect of an executive order granting a sort of amnesty to millions of illegals is enough to turn a city or even the entire nation into a post-apocalyptic wasteland in a mere 50 years, then why is it that we're not halfway there already?

Four years after Blade Runner hit theaters, St. Ronald Reagan granted amnesty to millions of undocumented immigrants. That was almost 30 years ago. You'd think by now we'd be seeing at least a little bit of an apocalypse, right?


Well the forecast today for LA is partly cloudy and 67, with a 10 percent chance of precipitation and zero chance of replicants.

So you thought Ridley Scott's most personal film was about 21st century weather and flying police cars, do you?

"While we are at it", you might also note that it is a dystopian imagining of an post-industrial decay - a society of ethnic ghettos, populated by Chinese, Latino, African, and Arab service sector poor who makes the future of the first world, a third world. A mish-mash of languages and cultures living in an endless urban landscape of congestion, pollution, crime, and multi-cultural mutations.

Ridley got the gist of decay correct, but rather than dominated by Chinese culture and Japanese technology LA is dominated by Mexicans and Central Americans (their talents at technology, beyond that of low riders and auto upholstering, being less than iconic). In any event, it is no longer a place where Anglos (or Blacks) can randomly exit freeways in confident assurance of safety. Much of California, especially southern California, are sprawling 'hearts of brown darkness' broken by islands (enclaves) of the more well off who can afford to live in places like Malibu. For the rest, it is a zoo.

The five million new supplicants will not create what is already a dystopian reality, it will merely accelerate it.
 
Funny, I hadn't noticed killer cyborgs roaming the streets. Or flying police cars. Blade Runner (1982) was set in 2019. In Los Angeles. More accurately, a Los Angeles where it rains all the time and is apparently never sunny.

Maybe in the next four or five years Southern California will be plunged into a rainy darkness, but will that be because of illegal immigrants? Probably not.


While we're at it, if the effect of an executive order granting a sort of amnesty to millions of illegals is enough to turn a city or even the entire nation into a post-apocalyptic wasteland in a mere 50 years, then why is it that we're not halfway there already?

Four years after Blade Runner hit theaters, St. Ronald Reagan granted amnesty to millions of undocumented immigrants. That was almost 30 years ago. You'd think by now we'd be seeing at least a little bit of an apocalypse, right?


Well the forecast today for LA is partly cloudy and 67, with a 10 percent chance of precipitation and zero chance of replicants.

So you thought Ridley Scott's most personal film was about 21st century weather and flying police cars, do you?

"While we are at it", you might also note that it is a dystopian imagining of an post-industrial decay - a society of ethnic ghettos, populated by Chinese, Latino, African, and Arab service sector poor who makes the future of the first world, a third world. A mish-mash of languages and cultures living in an endless urban landscape of congestion, pollution, crime, and multi-cultural mutations.

Ridley got the gist of decay correct, but rather than dominated by Chinese culture and Japanese technology LA is dominated by Mexicans and Central Americans (their talents at technology, beyond that of low riders and auto upholstering, being less than iconic). In any event, it is no longer a place where Anglos (or Blacks) can randomly exit freeways in confident assurance of safety. Much of California, especially southern California, are sprawling 'hearts of brown darkness' broken by islands (enclaves) of the more well off who can afford to live in places like Malibu. For the rest, it is a zoo.

The five million new supplicants will not create what is already a dystopian reality, it will merely accelerate it.
Seriously, I think you need a change of diet.
 
Funny, I hadn't noticed killer cyborgs roaming the streets. Or flying police cars. Blade Runner (1982) was set in 2019. In Los Angeles. More accurately, a Los Angeles where it rains all the time and is apparently never sunny.

Maybe in the next four or five years Southern California will be plunged into a rainy darkness, but will that be because of illegal immigrants? Probably not.


While we're at it, if the effect of an executive order granting a sort of amnesty to millions of illegals is enough to turn a city or even the entire nation into a post-apocalyptic wasteland in a mere 50 years, then why is it that we're not halfway there already?

Four years after Blade Runner hit theaters, St. Ronald Reagan granted amnesty to millions of undocumented immigrants. That was almost 30 years ago. You'd think by now we'd be seeing at least a little bit of an apocalypse, right?


Well the forecast today for LA is partly cloudy and 67, with a 10 percent chance of precipitation and zero chance of replicants.

So you thought Ridley Scott's most personal film was about 21st century weather and flying police cars, do you?

"While we are at it", you might also note that it is a dystopian imagining of an post-industrial decay - a society of ethnic ghettos, populated by Chinese, Latino, African, and Arab service sector poor who makes the future of the first world, a third world. A mish-mash of languages and cultures living in an endless urban landscape of congestion, pollution, crime, and multi-cultural mutations.

Ridley got the gist of decay correct, but rather than dominated by Chinese culture and Japanese technology LA is dominated by Mexicans and Central Americans (their talents at technology, beyond that of low riders and auto upholstering, being less than iconic). In any event, it is no longer a place where Anglos (or Blacks) can randomly exit freeways in confident assurance of safety. Much of California, especially southern California, are sprawling 'hearts of brown darkness' broken by islands (enclaves) of the more well off who can afford to live in places like Malibu. For the rest, it is a zoo.

The five million new supplicants will not create what is already a dystopian reality, it will merely accelerate it.

Did you forget you were logged into TalkFreethought and think you were on your StormFront account?
 
Funny, I hadn't noticed killer cyborgs roaming the streets. Or flying police cars. Blade Runner (1982) was set in 2019. In Los Angeles. More accurately, a Los Angeles where it rains all the time and is apparently never sunny.

Maybe in the next four or five years Southern California will be plunged into a rainy darkness, but will that be because of illegal immigrants? Probably not.


While we're at it, if the effect of an executive order granting a sort of amnesty to millions of illegals is enough to turn a city or even the entire nation into a post-apocalyptic wasteland in a mere 50 years, then why is it that we're not halfway there already?

Four years after Blade Runner hit theaters, St. Ronald Reagan granted amnesty to millions of undocumented immigrants. That was almost 30 years ago. You'd think by now we'd be seeing at least a little bit of an apocalypse, right?


Well the forecast today for LA is partly cloudy and 67, with a 10 percent chance of precipitation and zero chance of replicants.

So you thought Ridley Scott's most personal film was about 21st century weather and flying police cars, do you?

"While we are at it", you might also note that it is a dystopian imagining of an post-industrial decay - a society of ethnic ghettos, populated by Chinese, Latino, African, and Arab service sector poor who makes the future of the first world, a third world. A mish-mash of languages and cultures living in an endless urban landscape of congestion, pollution, crime, and multi-cultural mutations.

Ridley got the gist of decay correct, but rather than dominated by Chinese culture and Japanese technology LA is dominated by Mexicans and Central Americans (their talents at technology, beyond that of low riders and auto upholstering, being less than iconic). In any event, it is no longer a place where Anglos (or Blacks) can randomly exit freeways in confident assurance of safety. Much of California, especially southern California, are sprawling 'hearts of brown darkness' broken by islands (enclaves) of the more well off who can afford to live in places like Malibu. For the rest, it is a zoo.

The five million new supplicants will not create what is already a dystopian reality, it will merely accelerate it.

What the hell?
 
So you thought Ridley Scott's most personal film was about 21st century weather and flying police cars, do you?

"While we are at it", you might also note that it is a dystopian imagining of an post-industrial decay - a society of ethnic ghettos, populated by Chinese, Latino, African, and Arab service sector poor who makes the future of the first world, a third world. A mish-mash of languages and cultures living in an endless urban landscape of congestion, pollution, crime, and multi-cultural mutations.

Ridley got the gist of decay correct, but rather than dominated by Chinese culture and Japanese technology LA is dominated by Mexicans and Central Americans (their talents at technology, beyond that of low riders and auto upholstering, being less than iconic). In any event, it is no longer a place where Anglos (or Blacks) can randomly exit freeways in confident assurance of safety. Much of California, especially southern California, are sprawling 'hearts of brown darkness' broken by islands (enclaves) of the more well off who can afford to live in places like Malibu. For the rest, it is a zoo.

The five million new supplicants will not create what is already a dystopian reality, it will merely accelerate it.

Did you forget you were logged into TalkFreethought and think you were on your StormFront account?

Stormfront asked me to leave when I said something nice about Jews...they said I was going soft.
 
But srsly, thanks for reminding us that the Tea Party is not about racism.
 
So you thought Ridley Scott's most personal film was about 21st century weather and flying police cars, do you?


No, I was mocking you.

"While we are at it", you might also note that it is a dystopian imagining of an post-industrial decay - a society of ethnic ghettos, populated by Chinese, Latino, African, and Arab service sector poor who makes the future of the first world, a third world. A mish-mash of languages and cultures living in an endless urban landscape of congestion, pollution, crime, and multi-cultural mutations.

You know, Max, one of the things about dystopian science fiction (which I love, by the way) is that it is fucking fictional.



Ridley got the gist of decay correct, but rather than dominated by Chinese culture and Japanese technology LA is dominated by Mexicans and Central Americans (their talents at technology, beyond that of low riders and auto upholstering, being less than iconic).

I'm fairly well certain that Scott's "most personal film" is about what it means to be human, not "colored folks is scary and is gonna ruin us all."

But that's more of an esoteric distinction. Claiming that LA is "dominated by Mexicans and Central Americans" (leaving aside your disgusting racist remark for a moment) is not entirely true. Just about exactly half of the residents of Los Angeles (that's a Spanish sounding name, innit?) are the white people for whom you feel so much fear.

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/06/0644000.html

LA is home to plenty of people of Hispanic and/or Latino descent, it is true. It has always been true. In fact there's a case to be made that Los Angeles (gosh that name sounds really Spanish, doesn't it?) was founded by Hispanics because it fucking was. Up until just shy of the Civil War (that's the one where we freed all the scary black people) Los Angeles was part of Mexico. At one point in the history of the city, every resident of Los Angeles (of all races) was a Mexican.


In any event, it is no longer a place where Anglos (or Blacks) can randomly exit freeways in confident assurance of safety. Much of California, especially southern California, are sprawling 'hearts of brown darkness' broken by islands (enclaves) of the more well off who can afford to live in places like Malibu. For the rest, it is a zoo.

"While we're at it," let's talk about the astonishingly blatant racism on display here. As someone has already said, this sounds like something you'd read on Stormfront or hear at a Klan rally. "Hearts of brown darkness?"

Meanwhile, back to Blade Runner for a moment...the movie was about what it means to be human. You, by viewing other ethnic groups as inherently inferior, didn't get the message.


The five million new supplicants will not create what is already a dystopian reality, it will merely accelerate it.


Los Angeles and Southern California is not a dystopian reality, Max. It just has more brown people than you'd like. As my old boss used to say, "the problem is you, pal."
 
Hey Max, You're in a desert, walking along in the sand, when all of a sudden you look down and see a tortoise. It's crawling toward you. You reach down and you flip the tortoise over on its back, Max. The tortoise lays on its back, its belly baking in the hot sun, beating its legs trying to turn itself over, but it can't. Not without your help. But you're not helping.

Why is that Max?
 
maxparrish said:
"While we are at it", you might also note that it is a dystopian imagining of an post-industrial decay - a society of ethnic ghettos, populated by Chinese, Latino, African, and Arab service sector poor who makes the future of the first world, a third world. A mish-mash of languages and cultures living in an endless urban landscape of congestion, pollution, crime, and multi-cultural mutations.

You know, Max, one of the things about dystopian science fiction (which I love, by the way) is that it is fucking fictional.
And life often imitates art, in short:


Ridley got the gist of decay correct, but rather than dominated by Chinese culture and Japanese technology LA is dominated by Mexicans and Central Americans (their talents at technology, beyond that of low riders and auto upholstering, being less than iconic).

I'm fairly well certain that Scott's "most personal film" is about what it means to be human, not "colored folks is scary and is gonna ruin us all."

But that's more of an esoteric distinction. Claiming that LA is "dominated by Mexicans and Central Americans" (leaving aside your disgusting racist remark for a moment) is not entirely true. Just about exactly half of the residents of Los Angeles (that's a Spanish sounding name, innit?) are the white people for whom you feel so much fear.
Your weasel wording of "Not entirely true" is not going to smokescreen the facts. The City of LA and LA county are dominated by Latinos, most of them of Mexican origin or ancestry, and the small remainder being of Central American stock. Because the LA County includes: Los Angeles-Long Beach-Anaheim and is home to 88 incorporated cities and many unincorporated areas its difficult to find statistics for just the City of Los Angeles. However even for the combined MSA the dominance is not debatable.

Nearly 1/2 (48 percent) are Latino (42 percent of this group are foreign born). Another 29 percent are non-Hispanic white. The remainder are Asian and Black.

LA is home to plenty of people of Hispanic and/or Latino descent, it is true. It has always been true.
Always been true? In 1940 non-Hispanic whites were 93 percent of the population, Hispanics were 7.1 percent of the population - compared to their being nearly 50 percent (today) that does not sound like 1940 had "plenty" to a reasonable person. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Angeles

In fact there's a case to be made that Los Angeles (gosh that name sounds really Spanish, doesn't it?) was founded by Hispanics because it fucking was. Up until just shy of the Civil War (that's the one where we freed all the scary black people) Los Angeles was part of Mexico. At one point in the history of the city, every resident of Los Angeles (of all races) was a Mexican.

LOL...it sounds not just Hispanic, it sounds Spanish. You forgot that before it was under Mexico, it was Spanish, and every resident of LA was Spanish or subjects of Spain and California Indians. And before that, every resident of the area was one of 5,000 native Americans in the Los Angeles basin. So what is your point, that 'by right' it belongs to California's original settlers, native Americans or the Spanish before it belongs to Mexicans?

In any event, it is no longer a place where Anglos (or Blacks) can randomly exit freeways in confident assurance of safety. Much of California, especially southern California, are sprawling 'hearts of brown darkness' broken by islands (enclaves) of the more well off who can afford to live in places like Malibu. For the rest, it is a zoo.

"While we're at it," let's talk about the astonishingly blatant racism on display here. As someone has already said, this sounds like something you'd read on Stormfront or hear at a Klan rally. "Hearts of brown darkness?"

Los Angeles and Southern California is not a dystopian reality, Max. It just has more brown people than you'd like. As my old boss used to say, "the problem is you, pal."

Yes, it is a problem that some folks don't celebrate the crime, illiteracy, social distrust, poverty, congestion, pollution, urbanization, and environmental degradation caused by relentless immigration of Latin America. Why can't they just take the blue pill and call the monolithic waves mostly from one area of Latin America "diversity" and convince ourselves that it is the best of all possible worlds?

Sorry, that ain't rain you are pissin on my shoes. ;)
 
The real question here is why you find strangers scarier just because they don't share your skin colour, language, or taste in food, clothes or sport. They are just as much strangers, and just as likely to fuck you over, (or help you out of a jam) as non-Hispanic white strangers are.

Why lay the problems of "crime, illiteracy, social distrust, poverty, congestion, pollution, urbanization, and environmental degradation" at the door of strangers born in the next country, while not worrying about strangers born in the next county?

If population increase is a problem, why is immigration control a better solution than birth control? At least most immigrants have a basic education before they arrive - and don't rely on your taxes to pay for one, like locally born kids do.
 
LOL...it sounds not just Hispanic, it sounds Spanish. You forgot that before it was under Mexico, it was Spanish, and every resident of LA was Spanish or subjects of Spain and California Indians. And before that, every resident of the area was one of 5,000 native Americans in the Los Angeles basin. So what is your point, that 'by right' it belongs to California's original settlers, native Americans or the Spanish before it belongs to Mexicans?

The point is that Los Angeles doesn't "belong" to white folks like you think it should.

It has a long and rich history, and is more than just the white middle class utopia you imagine from the 50s.

But since you've been rather unapologetic in your hatred of brown people, what is your proposed solution? Half the city and surrounding area is populated by people you obviously think are sub-human, so how do you propose to purge them from the city you think belongs to "Anglos?" Max?


Should we load them all onto boxcars?
 
I am not white and I work for cash sometimes and I know a whole slew of white people working for cash hiring whoever, whether it be mexican nationals a few polish persons and american citizens. ( including white people )
we have all worked for cash, everyone I know has done or is doing it.
all undocumented, what you gonna do about that?
 
Having mixed levity with seriousness, perhaps I should restate a few points.

First, I have nothing fundamentally against any racial group or non-Muslim ethnic group. I have always made fun of the conduct and attitudes of many cultures and peoples, including that of rednecks, Cajuns, Arkies, Texans, cow town evangelists, fundi tongue speakers, crystal gazers, necromancers, priests and nature worshiping eco-Nazis and all groups in identity politics. Yet I have both admiration and disdain for most groups, and I don't think one needs to delude oneself to avoid socially programmed shameful thoughts. I rejected the prudish and religious programming of "bad thought" repression at 13, and I have never looked back. And I certainly don't intend to replace it with a secular PC form of shame and intellectual repression over race, culture, gender, religion or national origin - its childish.

Second, I believe in realism. The fact is that some groups tend to be smarter, or have more ability, in certain areas of human endeavor than others. It is also obvious that some tend to have greater socially dysfunctional behavior. Some are better at math, or language, or social interaction. Some are gifted in humor, or music, or dance. Some tend to make better athletes. Some tend to commit more homicide and less suicide. Some are more attractive, some are not. Some groups are better at social cohesiveness, others are more conflict oriented. Its a reality - get over it.

Third, there are groups with values and abilities that are more of contribution to human well being than others. Buddhists don't conduct jihads, Muslims do. Jews are leading scientists and businessmen, aboriginals are not. Its a reality - get over it.

Finally, I don't believe that the immigration from Latin America has been conductive to the well being of the last few generations of the American people - not even for the earlier waves of Latin immigrants. While their are numerous individual exceptions, as a whole the self-selected waves have been of people with below average intellectual ability who disproportionately contribute to many negatives in American life. As a people, many are benignly and seriously under-talented - others (especially in second and third generations) are also especially prone to violent crime. In any event, I find them culturally boring and often very unattractive. (So do many others who don't have the nerve to admit it).

On the other hand, Chinese, Japanese, Koreans, and Vietnamese are culturally complex, usually far more pleasing to the eye than average, and a net benefit to our well being - as are the Indian immigrants of the last 20 or 30 years. And if Muslims had never come to America, its difficult to see what would have been missed.
 
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The real question here is why you find strangers scarier just because they don't share your skin colour, language, or taste in food, clothes or sport. They are just as much strangers, and just as likely to fuck you over, (or help you out of a jam) as non-Hispanic white strangers are.

Why lay the problems of "crime, illiteracy, social distrust, poverty, congestion, pollution, urbanization, and environmental degradation" at the door of strangers born in the next country, while not worrying about strangers born in the next county?

If population increase is a problem, why is immigration control a better solution than birth control? At least most immigrants have a basic education before they arrive - and don't rely on your taxes to pay for one, like locally born kids do.

You mean, why do I react like most people living in "diverse" communities? California is a state that is only 40 percent white/anglo, a "blessing" few of you get to experience.

Before answering you question, I think a backgrounder would be helpful. In 2007, Harvard political scientist Robert Putnam (a liberal) was very reluctant to release his new research because it seriously undermined the myths of diversity. Paraphrasing, John Leo of City Magazine reports:

...His five-year study shows that immigration and ethnic diversity have a devastating short- and medium-term influence on the social capital, fabric of associations, trust, and neighborliness that create and sustain communities....

Putnam’s study reveals that immigration and diversity not only reduce social capital between ethnic groups, but also within the groups themselves. Trust, even for members of one’s own race, is lower, altruism and community cooperation rarer, friendships fewer. The problem isn’t ethnic conflict or troubled racial relations, but withdrawal and isolation. Putnam writes: “In colloquial language, people living in ethnically diverse settings appear to ‘hunker down’—that is, to pull in like a turtle.”

In the 41 sites Putnam studied in the U.S., he found that the more diverse the neighborhood, the less residents trust neighbors. This proved true in communities large and small, from big cities like Los Angeles, Chicago, Houston, and Boston to tiny Yakima, Washington, rural South Dakota, and the mountains of West Virginia. In diverse San Francisco and Los Angeles, about 30 percent of people say that they trust neighbors a lot. In ethnically homogeneous communities in the Dakotas, the figure is 70 percent to 80 percent.


Diversity does not produce “bad race relations,” Putnam says. Rather, people in diverse communities tend “to withdraw even from close friends, to expect the worst from their community and its leaders, to volunteer less, give less to charity and work on community projects less often, to register to vote less, to agitate for social reform more, but have less faith that they can actually make a difference, and to huddle unhappily in front of the television.” Putnam adds a crushing footnote: his findings “may underestimate the real effect of diversity on social withdrawal.”

Neither age nor disparities of wealth explain this result. “Americans raised in the 1970s,” he writes, “seem fully as unnerved by diversity as those raised in the 1920s.” And the “hunkering down” occurred no matter whether the communities were relatively egalitarian or showed great differences in personal income. Even when communities are equally poor or rich, equally safe or crime-ridden, diversity correlates with less trust of neighbors, lower confidence in local politicians and news media, less charitable giving and volunteering, fewer close friends, and less happiness.

Putnam has long been aware that his findings could have a big effect on the immigration debate. Last October, he told the Financial Times that “he had delayed publishing his research until he could develop proposals to compensate for the negative effects of diversity.” He said it “would have been irresponsible to publish without that,” a quote that should raise eyebrows. Academics aren’t supposed to withhold negative data until they can suggest antidotes to their findings.

...Social psychologists have long favored the optimistic hypothesis that contact between different ethnic and racial groups increases tolerance and social solidarity. For instance, white soldiers assigned to units with black soldiers after World War II were more relaxed about desegregation of the army than were soldiers in all-white units. But Putnam acknowledges that most empirical studies do not support the “contact hypothesis.” In general, they find that the more people are brought into contact with those of another race or ethnicity, the more they stick to their own, and the less they trust others. Putnam writes: “Across local areas in the United States, Australia, Sweden Canada and Britain, greater ethnic diversity is associated with lower social trust and, at least in some cases, lower investment in public goods.”

Though Putnam is wary of what right-wing politicians might do with his findings, the data might give pause to those on the left, and in the center as well. If he’s right, heavy immigration will inflict social deterioration for decades to come, harming immigrants as well as the native-born. Putnam is hopeful that eventually America will forge a new solidarity based on a “new, broader sense of we.” The problem is how to do that in an era of multiculturalism and disdain for assimilation.

http://www.city-journal.org/html/eon2007-06-25jl.html
 
...
Third, there are groups with values and abilities that are more of contribution to human well being than others. Buddhists don't conduct jihads, Muslims do. Jews are leading scientists and businessmen, aboriginals are not. Its a reality - get over it.
...

Australian Aborigine David Unaipon is known as "Australia's Leonardo" for his contributions to science and the Aboriginal people. His inventions include a tool for sheep-shearing, a centrifugal motor, a multi-radial wheel and mechanical propulsion device. Unaipon appears on Australia's $50 note.
- from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Australian_inventions

Given the very small numbers of aborigines as a fraction of the population, and the limited educational opportunities available in many aboriginal communities, which are largely in remote parts of the country with few services, it is surprisingly common for aborigines to do well in science and business.

Aboriginal science prior to European settlement was in many places quite advanced (http://www.smh.com.au/technology/sci-tech/aboriginal-scientific-achievements-recognised-at-last-20140422-zqxz9.html).

Then there are people such as John Moriarty, who founded a successful Aboriginal Art business, and lists amongst his achievements designing special liveries for Qantas Airways jets, and positions in the senior executive service of the Australian Federal government, and the Government of the State of South Australia; He also played football (soccer) at representative level.

Travel to the Northern Territory, and you will find plenty of Aboriginal businessmen (and women) building businesses both small and large in mining, construction, tourism, and retail.

When someone bases his judgements on a number of dubious claims; and when the fraction of those claims that fall into an area about which I have some knowledge are obviously wrong, I tend to assume that their other dubious claims are also based on prejudice rather than actual evidence. It is a good simplifying assumption.

Max, you are dressing your prejudices up as knowledge, but you are not fooling anybody here - with the possible exception of yourself. Some Jews are not leading scientists or businessmen; and some are. The same is true of some Aborigines - Get over it.
 
You mean, why do I react like most people living in "diverse" communities? California is a state that is only 40 percent white/anglo, a "blessing" few of you get to experience.

Before answering you question, ...

It seems that you forgot to answer my question altogether after you had finished posting your condescending and unnecessary 'backgrounder'.

For your information, I grew up in a community in the North of England where Indian and Pakistani families (including first, second and third generation English citizens) outnumbered 'anglo-saxon' families, and I am fully aware of both the problems and the benefits that come from having a large proportion of immigrants in a society. In my experience, the benefits generally outnumber the problems. This may be less true in the USA, but if so, that is not, I suspect, due to the fact of immigration, but rather to the underlying racism inherent in a nation that is only 150 years removed from treating dark-skinned people as chattel property.

Now, would you care to tell me why you find strangers scarier just because they don't share your skin colour, language, or taste in food, clothes or sport? They are just as much strangers, and just as likely to fuck you over, (or help you out of a jam) as non-Hispanic white strangers are.

Why lay the problems of "crime, illiteracy, social distrust, poverty, congestion, pollution, urbanization, and environmental degradation" at the door of strangers born in the next country, while not worrying about strangers born in the next county?

If population increase is a problem, why is immigration control a better solution than birth control? At least most immigrants have a basic education before they arrive - and don't rely on your taxes to pay for one, like locally born kids do.
 
Max is arguing that the effects are lower trust in your neighbours, less cooperation, and less investment in social goods.. So immigration makes people more conservative?

And how on earth are we getting to people displaying individual traits according to their membership of various groups as somehow being 'reality'? If it helps, I'm from California.
 
Illegal immigration.

I've never talked on the subject, and though I'm not prepared to espouse any view I might personally hold, there is this thought I have that makes me wonder if the fact that the illegal part is merely a convenient post hoc justification for the dismal view of immigration. In other words, perhaps people (and possibly even unknowingly) have a problem with immigration (but not necessarily across the board). Sure, they cite the legality of the issue, and they may purport to have only an issue with its legality, but if that's a post hoc justification for their issues, then there may be a high probability that there's an unspoken, underlying (and perhaps emotionally based bias) serving as a catalyst for their views against illegal immigration that has more to do with immigration than the legality of it.

Could it indeed be a prejudice that in no way takes into account the legality of the matter? Could a vast silent commonplace view be held in mind that remains unspoken? It could be similar to racism with the legality of immigration being the great common theme to clasp to.

And no, i have not espoused my view...just exploring the subject a tad.
Well, if we're just exploring the subject a tad, here is this thought I have that makes me wonder whether you personally helped as many people to legally immigrate as I have before you decided to call my support of legal immigration into question.
 
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