The normalization of kink

[Loren Pechtel]

Consider two of the most common kinks out there: voyeurism and exhibitionism. Exhibitionists get off on being seen in a sexual context by people who don't want to see them. Voyeurs get off on seeing other people in a sexual context without the knowledge or consent of the people they're watching. The turn on in both of those cases is directly linked to the lack of consent of the other person.

As I said, sex ed needs to address what is and isn't acceptable in kinks.

But does exhibitionism require people who don't want to see? I thought it only required the showing, isn't the non-consensual stuff a subcategory of it?

 

[Emily Lake]

Consider two of the most common kinks out there: voyeurism and exhibitionism. Exhibitionists get off on being seen in a sexual context by people who don't want to see them. Voyeurs get off on seeing other people in a sexual context without the knowledge or consent of the people they're watching. The turn on in both of those cases is directly linked to the lack of consent of the other person.

As I said, sex ed needs to address what is and isn't acceptable in kinks.

But does exhibitionism require people who don't want to see? I thought it only required the showing, isn't the non-consensual stuff a subcategory of it?

The turn-on of exhibitionism relies on the unwillingness of the viewers and the inappropriateness of exposing oneself. Some people enjoy exhibiting themselves to consenting audiences (strippers or porn actors who really like being watched, for example), but they're not generally considered 'exhibitionists'

Exhibitionists (usually males) expose their genitals, usually to unsuspecting strangers, and become sexually excited when doing so. They may be aware of their need to surprise, shock, or impress the unwilling observer. The victim is almost always a woman or a child of either sex. Actual sexual contact is almost never sought, so exhibitionists rarely commit rape.

Exhibitionism usually starts during adolescence. Most exhibitionists are married, but the marriage is often troubled.

About 30% of male sex offenders who are arrested are exhibitionists. They tend to persist in their behavior. About 20 to 50% are re-arrested.

 

[Jarhyn]

[removed]

 

[Emily Lake]

[And Toni, you disappoint me. Yes, a grade schooler DOES need to be aware of why her uncle likes MLP so much so she can avoid her uncle in contexts involving MLP. She had a RIGHT to know, so she can avoid that situation of being in a sexual context with one's uncle.

I don't follow this. Are you suggesting that the Uncle who has a kink for MLP is a pedophile, and thus the grade schooler should not be around him?

It kind of seems like dropping a kid into a lesson on sexual context regarding toys so that they can avoid sexual contexts involving toys might be a bit counterproductive as well as confusing.

 

[TomC]

[removed]

 

[Toni]

Yeah, I don’t agree that drag is generally ‘not too much’ for grade school kids, at least in a grade school
classroom. I’m s different if there is someone in their life who enjoys drag.

How do kids know ‘what is available to them’ if it isn’t discussed as part of a lesson plan? Seems to me that people seem to discover what they like and don’t like and under what contexts and circumstances. A grade schooler has zero need to know that her uncle likes My Pretty Pony for completely different reasons than she does. Indeed children need not to have adult sexual needs supersede their own needs to enjoy life without adult sexual connotations invading their lives unduly.

Your partner may have needed some guidance or advice in determining what is appropriate or enjoyable for her. A grade school setting isn’t the right place, though to directly address this. Instead grade schools are very appropriate place to teach and reinforce tolerance and acceptance of others.

This is just silly. The fact is, that someone may be them.

People do often discover what they like and don't like from circumstance and context. Discovering that what they like is within the bounds of consent and acceptable human behavior (or not) comes from education.

A kid doesn't need to be educated in how to rub their penis. Such would be weird and pedophilic. But they absolutely need to know that people rub their penises.

And Toni, you disappoint me. Yes, a grade schooler DOES need to be aware of why her uncle likes MLP so much so she can avoid her uncle in contexts involving MLP. She had a RIGHT to know, so she can avoid that situation of being in a sexual context with one's uncle.

A grade school setting is exactly the context for being educated on appropriateness of setting of tolerance and acceptance.

No, a grade schooler does not need to know anything at all about her uncle’s sexual fetish for MLP. She just doesn’t. That information is more burden than illuminating. She should be able to enjoy her own play without having adult sexuality intruding. Should she somehow accidentally be exposed to her uncles sex life in any way, then yes, she should have that explained to her.

I don’t know if you spend time with kids or in classrooms but honestly there’s a lot more going on in classrooms than visiting every permutation of fetish out there.

 

[Jarhyn]

[And Toni, you disappoint me. Yes, a grade schooler DOES need to be aware of why her uncle likes MLP so much so she can avoid her uncle in contexts involving MLP. She had a RIGHT to know, so she can avoid that situation of being in a sexual context with one's uncle.

I don't follow this. Are you suggesting that the Uncle who has a kink for MLP is a pedophile, and thus the grade schooler should not be around him?

It kind of seems like dropping a kid into a lesson on sexual context regarding toys so that they can avoid sexual contexts involving toys might be a bit counterproductive as well as confusing.

No, I'm suggesting that people have a right to know when someone is being triggered with a kink and getting aroused so they can decide to not be a part of it and then lear after the fact, having afternoons of childhood sullied with sudden unwanted knowledge that her uncle was behind her with an uncontrollable boner.

I would as soon let him to his boners, but be able to choose not to be in the room with it, or accidentally trigger it and be confused as to why my uncle runs away whenever the ponies come out.

This is not a kindness to put someone in such a fucked up weird position with no map and no education and all confusion and dismay.

"Some adults have things they like and like to keep their like of it private. It's ok, but sometimes it can be weird or confusing when it happens. It's nothing to be ashamed or embarrassed about, but it is something people generally think is polite to keep rather private; if someone has 'a weird thing' for something, just know that it's best to just respect their privacy and not expose them to it so long as it isn't burdensome or onerous to accomplish this."

It's a lesson someone can learn when they are 5, worded properly

 

[Jayjay]

I usually just return the cart and carry my bags to the car. I'm sure there is a reason for it but coming from a house of 5 and never needing to buy more than I can carry in one visit it puzzles me to see some people with carts filled to the gills. I don't even understand the cases of water bottles (which makes sense to use the cart-to-car method) but in my house, we use two 5 gallon water dispensers where we replace the bottles after 30ish refiles at a local dispenser.

Edit: Well my house kinda cheats because we have two shoppers, my wife and myself.

My last shopping trip involved the purchase of two 25 pound bags at one store and would have also included two 5 pound bags had they had what I wanted. Carry that out?? And where would I have put them while getting my keys out to put them in the trunk?

If my load can be carried in one hand I generally leave the cart at the cart storage.

The analogy is becoming a bit hazy to me. What's the equivalent situation applied to a person's sexual "kinks" being flouted in public?

This reminds me of that old xkcd joke about "github for lesbians" (which ironically, in these weird times, does sound like a thing that could exist, although for a different reason).

 

[ZiprHead]

Easy there Governor. I get it. I wonder why every market (that uses carts) doesn't have a coin system. In my area, a place called Save a Lot has it so you have to use 25cents to get a kart and if you want your money back you must return the cart. When someone doesn't return it there is always some homeless person that does it to retrieve that quarter for their work. This Save a Lot is in the hood and I've never seen a kart sitting in that lot (at least not for long). I haven't seen one of their carts on the side of the road far from their store either. I have seen a lot of Publix and Walmart carts around town though.

Yeah. I've been tempted to put a cart token among the things I keep.

I don't know if the carts for your store support custom cart tokens? But I know that's kinda big in the UK.

I also wonder at this. Perhaps the cost of the carts is lower than the cost of the mechanism?

But at the same time, part of the cost of carts is lead time, too, not just the material costs. You can't really just have to buy a cart or two; you have to (order) (minimum number) (carts).

 

[Gospel]

[And Toni, you disappoint me. Yes, a grade schooler DOES need to be aware of why her uncle likes MLP so much so she can avoid her uncle in contexts involving MLP. She had a RIGHT to know, so she can avoid that situation of being in a sexual context with one's uncle.

I don't follow this. Are you suggesting that the Uncle who has a kink for MLP is a pedophile, and thus the grade schooler should not be around him?

It kind of seems like dropping a kid into a lesson on sexual context regarding toys so that they can avoid sexual contexts involving toys might be a bit counterproductive as well as confusing.

No, I'm suggesting that people have a right to know when someone is being triggered with a kink and getting aroused so they can decide to not be a part of it and then lear after the fact, having afternoons of childhood sullied with sudden unwanted knowledge that her uncle was behind her with an uncontrollable boner.

I would as soon let him to his boners, but be able to choose not to be in the room with it, or accidentally trigger it and be confused as to why my uncle runs away whenever the ponies come out.

This is not a kindness to put someone in such a fucked up weird position with no map and no education and all confusion and dismay.

"Some adults have things they like and like to keep their like of it private. It's ok, but sometimes it can be weird or confusing when it happens. It's nothing to be ashamed or embarrassed about, but it is something people generally think is polite to keep rather private; if someone has 'a weird thing' for something, just know that it's best to just respect their privacy and not expose them to it so long as it isn't burdensome or onerous to accomplish this."

It's a lesson someone can learn when they are 5, worded properly

I think the breakdown in communication here is some folks aren't aware that there is such a thing as My Little Pony porn. I've seen a lot of stuff I wish I could unsee on the dark side of the internet.

 

[Jarhyn]

No, I'm suggesting that people have a right to know when someone is being triggered with a kink and getting aroused so they can decide to not be a part of it and then lear after the fact, having afternoons of childhood sullied with sudden unwanted knowledge that her uncle was behind her with an uncontrollable boner.

I would as soon let him to his boners, but be able to choose not to be in the room with it, or accidentally trigger it and be confused as to why my uncle runs away whenever the ponies come out.

This is not a kindness to put someone in such a fucked up weird position with no map and no education and all confusion and dismay.

"Some adults have things they like and like to keep their like of it private. It's ok, but sometimes it can be weird or confusing when it happens. It's nothing to be ashamed or embarrassed about, but it is something people generally think is polite to keep rather private; if someone has 'a weird thing' for something, just know that it's best to just respect their privacy and not expose them to it so long as it isn't burdensome or onerous to accomplish this."

It's a lesson someone can learn when they are 5, worded properly

I think the breakdown in communication here is some folks aren't aware that there is such a thing as My Little Pony porn. I've seen a lot of stuff I wish I could unsee on the dark side of the internet.

Yeah. If I'd known it was there, I might never have actually found it. Then, there are other things there that I did know were there and did seek them out, and the only one I have to blame for opening my eyes to that is myself, so it's much easier to live with knowing. I'm not going to even name the things I have found, so dark they that they may otherwise entice the knower of such names to look into that void and despair as we have.

I will speak all of the names of this once to my child, but before the time of the deep internet, and bid them know this story of a child, now an adult but still also a child in the worst possible way, who drew shitty art, and never got better. Worse, in this shitty art fantasized the murder, rape, and torture of women who interacted with them, by them. They published, and publish still, these comics. Trolls found this person and tortured them and taunted them. This adult child with medical and psychological trouble... humans manipulated this man child for their amusement and they fucking documented it in a way that is still somehow charitable to how shitty their victim was, and is. This continues to be documented. The victimization continues to happen. The victim continues to be shitty, and draw shitty comics. Perhaps I have crossed a line among those who would shush.

Speak not of this again. Search not of it. Know this is true, and be glad you know no more. It is a void of true evil open and breathing and alive in our world.

I have shushed the name four times. I have spoken it in a dark room to my husband once, so that he know why it must be shushed, now having seen it now again. I will not speak it here.

I will not speak it again but to tell this story, speak it once perhaps in a dark room and bid them listen for it, and shush those who say it, and say that we do not speak of it.

It is a dark thing.

It is also a dark curse that can be spoken to those not yet infected and properly inducted, that they may in their curiosity follow the thread and then be tainted by knowing the reality of that sad, circular horror.

It is an innoculation and it must happen before a certain age, when the thought of such horror does not fascinate but rather disgusts and horrifies and confuses them. I might not word it quite this way at that age, mind.

But in this is a reality: skilled and wise education is not universal nor likely, but is still very important. It is thus prudent to find skilled educators in these things and have them teach a large number of people about them all at once, in age appropriate ways, with well designed lessons, I'm an organized manner.

We need comprehensive health and human development education.

Probably not about The Circular Horror, though. Perhaps leave that to we who shush.

 

[ZiprHead]

I will speak all of the names of this once to my child, but before the time of the deep internet, and bid them know this story of a child, now an adult but still also a child in the worst possible way, who drew shitty art, and never got better. Worse, in this shitty art fantasized the murder, rape, and torture of women who interacted with them, by them. They published, and publish still, these comics. Trolls found this person and tortured them and taunted them. This adult child with medical and psychological trouble... humans manipulated this man child for their amusement and they fucking documented it in a way that is still somehow charitable to how shitty their victim was, and is. This continues to be documented. The victimization continues to happen. The victim continues to be shitty, and draw shitty comics. Perhaps I have crossed a line among those who would shush.

Ben Garrison?

 

[Jarhyn]

I will speak all of the names of this once to my child, but before the time of the deep internet, and bid them know this story of a child, now an adult but still also a child in the worst possible way, who drew shitty art, and never got better. Worse, in this shitty art fantasized the murder, rape, and torture of women who interacted with them, by them. They published, and publish still, these comics. Trolls found this person and tortured them and taunted them. This adult child with medical and psychological trouble... humans manipulated this man child for their amusement and they fucking documented it in a way that is still somehow charitable to how shitty their victim was, and is. This continues to be documented. The victimization continues to happen. The victim continues to be shitty, and draw shitty comics. Perhaps I have crossed a line among those who would shush.

Ben Garrison?

Close enough, I guess.

And mind, this is one of the lesser evils I know of. Twitter and Facebook have enabled FAR more significant travesties to occur, and young people are coerced onto those platforms through school-leveraged peer interactions.

On the note of age appropriate sex-ed, here, have this link to a TikTok of a very wise mother who does a good job with early sexual education. An inverse to Ben Garrison if you will.

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMRensG13/

She is wise enough to distinguish "boy" and "girl" with "penis-haver" and "vulva-haver", and manages to not reveal the identities, genitals, and even genders of their children AFAIK (I only see the videos second-hand from my husband as I eschew social media), and teaches them to be respectful of others in ways some here could stand to learn, I expect.

 

[TomC]

No, I'm suggesting that people have a right to know when someone is being triggered with a kink and getting aroused so they can decide to not be a part of it and then lear after the fact, having afternoons of childhood sullied with sudden unwanted knowledge that her uncle was behind her with an uncontrollable boner.

I would as soon let him to his boners, but be able to choose not to be in the room with it, or accidentally trigger it and be confused as to why my uncle runs away whenever the ponies come out.

This is not a kindness to put someone in such a fucked up weird position with no map and no education and all confusion and dismay.

"Some adults have things they like and like to keep their like of it private. It's ok, but sometimes it can be weird or confusing when it happens. It's nothing to be ashamed or embarrassed about, but it is something people generally think is polite to keep rather private; if someone has 'a weird thing' for something, just know that it's best to just respect their privacy and not expose them to it so long as it isn't burdensome or onerous to accomplish this."

It's a lesson someone can learn when they are 5, worded properly

I think the breakdown in communication here is some folks aren't aware that there is such a thing as My Little Pony porn. I've seen a lot of stuff I wish I could unsee on the dark side of the internet.

I consider myself blessed by having been born so long ago that I was ~40 before the internet became a thing.
When I was a teenager, "does the student's skirt reach 2" above her knee? From where on her knee are you measuring?" was a thing. Hard core porno was the Playboy magazines someone found under their dad's mattress...

It really was a different world.

I really don't consider modern internet driven media a big improvement. It could be, but it isn't.
Tom

 

[Jarhyn]

No, I'm suggesting that people have a right to know when someone is being triggered with a kink and getting aroused so they can decide to not be a part of it and then lear after the fact, having afternoons of childhood sullied with sudden unwanted knowledge that her uncle was behind her with an uncontrollable boner.

I would as soon let him to his boners, but be able to choose not to be in the room with it, or accidentally trigger it and be confused as to why my uncle runs away whenever the ponies come out.

This is not a kindness to put someone in such a fucked up weird position with no map and no education and all confusion and dismay.

"Some adults have things they like and like to keep their like of it private. It's ok, but sometimes it can be weird or confusing when it happens. It's nothing to be ashamed or embarrassed about, but it is something people generally think is polite to keep rather private; if someone has 'a weird thing' for something, just know that it's best to just respect their privacy and not expose them to it so long as it isn't burdensome or onerous to accomplish this."

It's a lesson someone can learn when they are 5, worded properly

I think the breakdown in communication here is some folks aren't aware that there is such a thing as My Little Pony porn. I've seen a lot of stuff I wish I could unsee on the dark side of the internet.

I consider myself blessed by having been born so long ago that I was ~40 before the internet became a thing.
When I was a teenager, "does the student's skirt reach 2" above her knee? From where on her knee are you measuring?" was a thing. Hard core porno was the Playboy magazines someone found under their dad's mattress...

It really was a different world.

I really don't consider modern internet driven media a big improvement. It could be, but it isn't.
Tom

You act as if hustler wasn't a thing, even then. I grew up as the internet became a thing. I lived in both worlds and kids are growing up today who grew up in this environment and they seem to be doing pretty well, assuming their parents don't fuck up too horribly, like by withholding sexual educations from their kids.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

You act as if hustler wasn't a thing, even then. I grew up as the internet became a thing. I lived in both worlds and kids are growing up today who grew up in this environment and they seem to be doing pretty well, assuming their parents don't fuck up too horribly, like by withholding sexual educations from their kids.

Yeah--there wasn't as much out there but the hardcore stuff certainly existed. I've seen kinky stuff from as far back as the 50s.

 

[Jarhyn]

Our younger housemate had friends over the other night. It was the kind of situation where you meet someone new, show them the city, go on a bar crawl... You know, normal young adult stuff, and me being the longest in the city, I got to go along as their guide.

As we were out, we ended up being stuck out without a convenient or really affordable ride home, so we just walked two miles from the last bar back to their RV.

In this time, I heard the story of how they, as a high school student, as a result of the exposure of their kink (fetish? I don't know how deep it goes for him) led to the loss of all of their friends, and the entirety of their social support.

This strikes me as a failure of sexual education. Inna sane world, everyone would know that it's not OK to treat people like that. Sex Ed is where cultures of either bullying and ostracization start, or die. When a culture has been formed that says "don't kink shame" and creates a backstop for that kind of bullying, I find that preferable to the one where the prudes of the world say "that's icky!" (And the implied "and you're icky for liking it!") Without challenge.

Maybe that's more the reason some people don't want comprehensive sexual education: maybe they don't want their behavior to get shushed and shamed the way they would see others shushed and shamed merely for being themselves?

 

[Trausti]

 

[Gospel]

Trausti hahahahahahahahahahaha Im dead

 

[Jarhyn]

Gospel got you off ignore.

Now, let's see how long that lasts, I guess?

Seriously though, it seems like it would be really difficult to wash. I'd go back to a normal bed (with mattress protector, LOL!) the first time some nasty Santorum shart happened.

That's another thing that they never teach: that sex is messy and awkward the first few times. And "never pay for a sex toy you won't know how to wash, or can't.