Minneapolis voters reject defunding the police

[Metaphor]

Minneapolis voters reject a measure to replace the city's police department

The failed ballot measure proposed a new Department of Public Safety that would emphasize a public health approach to policing.

www.npr.org

Voters in Minneapolis have resoundingly rejected a proposal to reinvent policing in their city, 17 months after the killing of George Floyd by police sparked massive protests and calls for change.

<Snipped for copyright>

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

But defunding the police is a core progressive position! How dare the voters suddenly all become evil Trumpists!

 

[laughing dog]

To anyone who was actually paying attention to the ballot question debate, the ballot question itself was sufficiently ambiguous. However, most participants on both sides of the debate did seem to realize that significant change in the MPD was necessary - they disagreed on the extent and methods.

And, there was lots of outside money coming in on both sides of the debate.

 

[Trausti]

In somewhat related news, the socialist candidate for Buffalo mayor looks to lose to a write-in-campaign and Seattle may have elected a Republican for city attorney. Seems like folks have had enough of the far-left.

 

[Metaphor]

On the colour divide - black people opposed defunding the police, white people favoured it

Police Reform Is On The Ballot In Minneapolis. But It’s About More Than Defunding The Police.

On June 7, 2020, in the wake of the high-profile murder of George Floyd by Minneapolis police, nine members of the City Council made a public statement: The pol…

fivethirtyeight.com

Black voters said they opposed replacing the MPD with a Department of Public Safety, 47 percent to 42 percent (white voters supported it 51 percent to 40 percent).

 

[southernhybrid]

The idea of defunding the police was stupid. Sure, the police need to be trained differently from the way most are now. Sure, the police need to be held accountable when they kill innocent people. There are many things that can be done to make our police departments more effective and fair, but we need police. Whoever came up with the slogan "Defund he police" did a lot of harm to the Democratic Party imo.

 

[Harry Bosch]

The idea of defunding the police was stupid. Sure, the police need to be trained differently from the way most are now. Sure, the police need to be held accountable when they kill innocent people. There are many things that can be done to make our police departments more effective and fair, but we need police. Whoever came up with the slogan "Defund he police" did a lot of harm to the Democratic Party imo.

Totally agree. I sometimes wonder if the people coming up with these phrases are closest republicans?! Law and order will always be popular because people want law and order! And you can't have a successful liberal society without most people adhering to the law; and others who are willing to go after those who don't follow the law. Hopefully defund the police will go away...

 

[Keith&Co.]

. Sure, the police need to be held accountable when they kill innocent people.

Not 'fixed that for you' but 'i'd suggest....'

They're not really supposed to kill people that are guilty, either. More scrutiny, more transparency is needed, less concentration on the dead guy's rap sheet.

 

[Shadowy Man]

. Sure, the police need to be held accountable when they kill innocent people.

Not 'fixed that for you' but 'i'd suggest....'

They're not really supposed to kill people that are guilty, either. More scrutiny, more transparency is needed, less concentration on the dead guy's rap sheet.

Isn’t everyone supposed to be technically legally innocent until proven guilty in a court of law?

 

[Toni]

Defund the Police always seemed to me to be deliberate sabotage of a good, much needed, and very complex idea. Self inflicted or not: sabotage.

Black voters in Minneapolis are more likely to live in neighborhoods with significant crime. It's easy to understand why they would not be in favor of less police no matter how much they are in favor of very significant police reform.

 

[Harry Bosch]

. Sure, the police need to be held accountable when they kill innocent people.

Not 'fixed that for you' but 'i'd suggest....'

They're not really supposed to kill people that are guilty, either. More scrutiny, more transparency is needed, less concentration on the dead guy's rap sheet.

Isn’t everyone supposed to be technically legally innocent until proven guilty in a court of law?

I'd guess that Southernhybrid was saying that sometimes the police kill a person whom they deemed a threat, when it was more of a misunderstanding or the person was not a threat. So they were innocent of being a real threat. If a person is a real imminent threat to life, they need to be put down. And of course there are some bad cops, who kill people for their own reasons. They need to be held accountable.

 

[Keith&Co.]

. Sure, the police need to be held accountable when they kill innocent people.

Not 'fixed that for you' but 'i'd suggest....'

They're not really supposed to kill people that are guilty, either. More scrutiny, more transparency is needed, less concentration on the dead guy's rap sheet.

Isn’t everyone supposed to be technically legally innocent until proven guilty in a court of law?

But they have to live to MAKE it to the court.

 

[ZiprHead]

Was this a defund the police legislation or was it just a campaign slogan that caught traction?

 

[laughing dog]

Was this a defund the police legislation or was it just a campaign slogan that caught traction?

The ballot question was nebulous, so it could have been implemented to reduce the number of police or not. One of the driving forces behind this initiative is that "police reform" in Minneapolis has been an issue for at least a decade, and there is little evidence of any actual reform.

 

[Shadowy Man]

. Sure, the police need to be held accountable when they kill innocent people.

Not 'fixed that for you' but 'i'd suggest....'

They're not really supposed to kill people that are guilty, either. More scrutiny, more transparency is needed, less concentration on the dead guy's rap sheet.

Isn’t everyone supposed to be technically legally innocent until proven guilty in a court of law?

But they have to live to MAKE it to the court.

So then every police shooting is, legally speaking, a shooting of an innocent person.

 

[southernhybrid]

. Sure, the police need to be held accountable when they kill innocent people.

Not 'fixed that for you' but 'i'd suggest....'

They're not really supposed to kill people that are guilty, either. More scrutiny, more transparency is needed, less concentration on the dead guy's rap sheet.

Isn’t everyone supposed to be technically legally innocent until proven guilty in a court of law?

I'd guess that Southernhybrid was saying that sometimes the police kill a person whom they deemed a threat, when it was more of a misunderstanding or the person was not a threat. So they were innocent of being a real threat. If a person is a real imminent threat to life, they need to be put down. And of course there are some bad cops, who kill people for their own reasons. They need to be held accountable.

Of course that's what I meant. There are times when a police officer kills someone either in self defense or to protect an innocent person who is being seriously threatened by someone. That is the only time that I believe police shootings are justifiable.

While I've never needed to call the police for help, if someone was breaking into my home or threatening me personally, you better believe that I'd call 911 and ask for help from the police. I have a police officer who lives three doors down from me. He's a very decent person, has a wife, two children and just happens to be Black. He was recently promoted to detective status, but due to the shortage of police, he's back on patrol duty, To my knowledge, no police officer in my city has ever shot anyone. In fact, a white criminal killed a Black police officer who was responding to a 911 call from a restaurant a few years ago. Too bad the cop didn't shoot that person before he was murdered. I think he was trying to deescalate the situation, but failed. That's just one anecdote of why we need the police and why sometimes they need to shoot when someone is threatening their life or the lives of others.

 

[TomC]

. Sure, the police need to be held accountable when they kill innocent people.

Not 'fixed that for you' but 'i'd suggest....'

They're not really supposed to kill people that are guilty, either. More scrutiny, more transparency is needed, less concentration on the dead guy's rap sheet.

Isn’t everyone supposed to be technically legally innocent until proven guilty in a court of law?

But they have to live to MAKE it to the court.

So then every police shooting is, legally speaking, a shooting of an innocent person.

Also,
sometimes the shooting of a legally innocent person is totally the right thing to do. Because it's the only way to protect the rest of us innocent people.
Tom

 

[Shadowy Man]

. Sure, the police need to be held accountable when they kill innocent people.

Not 'fixed that for you' but 'i'd suggest....'

They're not really supposed to kill people that are guilty, either. More scrutiny, more transparency is needed, less concentration on the dead guy's rap sheet.

Isn’t everyone supposed to be technically legally innocent until proven guilty in a court of law?

But they have to live to MAKE it to the court.

So then every police shooting is, legally speaking, a shooting of an innocent person.

Also,
sometimes the shooting of a legally innocent person is totally the right thing to do. Because it's the only way to protect the rest of us innocent people.
Tom

Yes. Sometimes.

 

[Keith&Co.]

. Sure, the police need to be held accountable when they kill innocent people.

Not 'fixed that for you' but 'i'd suggest....'

They're not really supposed to kill people that are guilty, either. More scrutiny, more transparency is needed, less concentration on the dead guy's rap sheet.

Isn’t everyone supposed to be technically legally innocent until proven guilty in a court of law?

But they have to live to MAKE it to the court.

So then every police shooting is, legally speaking, a shooting of an innocent person.

Also,
sometimes the shooting of a legally innocent person is totally the right thing to do. Because it's the only way to protect the rest of us innocent people.
Tom

Yes. Sometimes.

Yes. Justifiable shooting is separate from the legal guilt or innocence of the person shot. Which is why i think there should be more attention paid investigating all shootings. The police aren't supposed to be judge and jury.
And 'feared for my life' gets way too much use.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Was this a defund the police legislation or was it just a campaign slogan that caught traction?

The ballot question was nebulous, so it could have been implemented to reduce the number of police or not. One of the driving forces behind this initiative is that "police reform" in Minneapolis has been an issue for at least a decade, and there is little evidence of any actual reform.

And note that in almost all cases one should vote no on nebulous ballot issues. Rejecting a poorly designed measure says nothing about where someone stands on the underlying idea.