Why do you assume naturalistic forces did not exist yet?
Why do you assume the universe started to exist?
Its not an assumption the scientific consensus is that the universe came into existence about 13.5 billion years ago. There appears to be a lot of data and facts that support that conclusion. Scientists also tell us that the laws of nature we now observe break down in the singularity (an unnatural phenomenon we call natural). The natural forces we are familiar with including the existence of time began to exist.
Be careful that you understand “this version of the universe began when the existing matter changed dramatically” is different from “the matter poofed into existence.”
Scientists coalesce around an understanding of a singularity being
as far back as we can detect artifacts of history, but I do not think you can quote a single one of them saying that at some point the singularity
did not exist and that moreover they are certain the singularity did not itself collapse from a previous incarnation of “universe.”
You are making claims about what scientists think that do not match what scientists are saying. I am making a claim that the matter/energy in that singularity always existed. Always. And that there is no evidence to suggest it did not. “The universe” may have looked very different as a singularity, but it can abslutely have always existed.
Your claim that the singularity did not exist until your god created it is NOT a part of the consensus of science.
YOUR JOB is to then speculate what forces your supposed god supposedly used to supposedly create a universe where there supposedly was not one before,
No that's not my job I have no idea how God or naturalistic forces would cause themselves to exist. I don't exactly know how scientists caused a virtual universe to exist but I know it was caused by intelligent means such as designing and engineering.
Then you don’t have any business in this thread, since
that is the topic.
What is the actual mechanism by which God can affect the natural world? How did he create the universe? Does he just think stuff and then it happens? How can he read the minds of seven billion people at once? I’ve never heard a good answer to the question. “Because he’s god“ doesn’t count.
Either give your ideas on how, mechanistically, your god makes things happen or go start a thread on whatever topic you want to talk about that does not involve giving your ideas on how, mechanistically, your god interacts with matter.
The universe was not created. It did not begin. It is. It always was. I don’t need to imagine that it was created because that is not required. It is entirely possible for it to have always been here
It is required because to the best of scientific knowledge the universe didn't always exist. At this point your speculation goes against the weight of science. Did time always exist? If it did how did we cross an infinite amount of time to get to 2021?
No, my speculation is in line with science. What scientists call “the universe” is what we see today. But you are claiming they are ALSO saying that no previous universe existed and indeed even the singularity was non-existent at some point.
And I believe you are completely wrong.
My speculation does fit with science because it includes the expectation that the singularity did not poof into existence.
Gravity - things with mass and energy attracing each other
If it weren't for the fact gravity is something we observe all the time it would be considered a supernatural force. There is no known explanation of what gravity is or why it exists. We call it natural only because we observe it all the time. If we observed ghosts on a regular basis even if we can't explain it we'd consider them to be natural. We do know one thing about gravity we wouldn't exist without it.
Drew, we understand a LOT more about gravity than that. There are known theories (“explanations”) that describe it. And, wonderfully, lots more to be learned.