It's gender critical coming out day

[TomC]

You have made clear you are of the form "believes all men are male and believes all women are female", so not just cis but religiously so.

I see. It's true I believe all men are male and all women are female. I just didn't realise there was a special word for people who believe mundane truths.

I use these words a bit differently from Jarhyn. By cis I just mean an individual who has a sex that matches their gender identity. I was born male and developed the gender identity of man. I'm cis. The Andrea I spoke of was also born male, but developed the gender identity of woman. Therefore she's trans.

Like many of the concepts involved, it gets messy around the edges. "How trans is trans?" "What about intersex people?" When in doubt, I just accept whatever a person tells me about themselves. Even when it's non-verbal cues. It works for me.
Tom

 

[Jarhyn]

You have made clear you are of the form "believes all men are male and believes all women are female", so not just cis but religiously so.

I see. It's true I believe all men are male and all women are female. I just didn't realise there was a special word for people who believe mundane truths.

I use these words a bit differently from Jarhyn. By cis I just mean an individual who has a sex that matches their gender identity. I was born male and developed the gender identity of man. I'm cis. The Andrea I spoke of was also born male, but developed the gender identity of woman. Therefore she's trans.

Like many of the concepts involved, it gets messy around the edges. "How trans is trans?" "What about intersex people?" When in doubt, I just accept whatever a person tells me about themselves. Even when it's non-verbal cues. It works for me.
Tom

I would use those words. I do, in fact, when I don't have to be so fucking precise as one must be when discussing with someone who adamantly believes that there is no such thing as "a man who is not a 'male'."

 

[Elixir]

Yawn. Another thread to allow one poster to yet again test their own gender and sexuality against definitions floating around social media...

Sure hope you get it all worked out soon, @Metaphor, CUZ YOU'RE BORING SOME OF US TO DEATH..

 

[TomC]

You have made clear you are of the form "believes all men are male and believes all women are female", so not just cis but religiously so.

I see. It's true I believe all men are male and all women are female. I just didn't realise there was a special word for people who believe mundane truths.

I use these words a bit differently from Jarhyn. By cis I just mean an individual who has a sex that matches their gender identity. I was born male and developed the gender identity of man. I'm cis. The Andrea I spoke of was also born male, but developed the gender identity of woman. Therefore she's trans.

Like many of the concepts involved, it gets messy around the edges. "How trans is trans?" "What about intersex people?" When in doubt, I just accept whatever a person tells me about themselves. Even when it's non-verbal cues. It works for me.
Tom

I would use those words. I do, in fact, when I don't have to be so fucking precise as one must be when discussing with someone who adamantly believes that there is no such thing as "a man who is not a 'male'."

You have your own flavors of precision stupidity at the expense of others.

Pointing out that Lia Thomas remains male despite her gender identity, for the purposes of competitive swimming, is not "trans erasure" or "ejecting her from sports".
Tom

 

[Jarhyn]

You have made clear you are of the form "believes all men are male and believes all women are female", so not just cis but religiously so.

I see. It's true I believe all men are male and all women are female. I just didn't realise there was a special word for people who believe mundane truths.

I use these words a bit differently from Jarhyn. By cis I just mean an individual who has a sex that matches their gender identity. I was born male and developed the gender identity of man. I'm cis. The Andrea I spoke of was also born male, but developed the gender identity of woman. Therefore she's trans.

Like many of the concepts involved, it gets messy around the edges. "How trans is trans?" "What about intersex people?" When in doubt, I just accept whatever a person tells me about themselves. Even when it's non-verbal cues. It works for me.
Tom

I would use those words. I do, in fact, when I don't have to be so fucking precise as one must be when discussing with someone who adamantly believes that there is no such thing as "a man who is not a 'male'."

You have your own flavors of precision stupidity at the expense of others.

Pointing out that Lia Thomas remains male despite her gender identity, for the purposes of competitive swimming, is not "trans erasure" or "ejecting her from sports".
Tom

There is nothing stupid about being precise as to why, exactly, she is not qualified to compete against those she competes with.

Pointing out "that she is 'male'" is not trans erasure, it's simply unimportant, and a pile-on of the outing.

Pointing out "that she has been deeply and irreversibly impacted by testosterone" is pretty important.

Stepping through that seemingly small brook from one side to the other is like deciding to swim the Bolton Strid.

 

[TomC]

There is nothing stupid about being precise as to why, exactly, she is not qualified to compete against those she competes with.

Pointing out "that she is 'male'" is not trans erasure, it's simply unimportant, and a pile-on of the outing.

I don't care enough to go back and find the quote. But I clearly remember you describing my opinion that Lia should not be on the female team as trans erasure and ejecting her from competitive swimming. I believe I referred to your opinion as "ideological purity".

But it was awhile ago and I don't care much.
Tom

ETA. ~Nothing to do with outing. Lia did that herself by switching from the male team to the female team. ~

 

[Jarhyn]

There is nothing stupid about being precise as to why, exactly, she is not qualified to compete against those she competes with.

Pointing out "that she is 'male'" is not trans erasure, it's simply unimportant, and a pile-on of the outing.

I don't care enough to go back and find the quote. But I clearly remember you describing my opinion that Lia should not be on the female team as trans erasure and ejecting her from competitive swimming. I believe I referred to your opinion as "ideological purity".

But it was awhile ago and I don't care much.
Tom

ETA. ~Nothing to do with outing. Lia did that herself by switching from the male team to the female team. ~

Nope. You're confusing me with someone else. I have never even used the term "trans erasure".

I've never even once supported her being on that team (and if you wish to continue this, this is not the thread). In fact all my posts that mention her at all make mention that she is, on an ethical level, unqualified compete in that league at all. The only reason they let her in the first place is this enduring error in human society where we do not acknowledge the direct causal factor (testosterone) in a vacuum away from other confounding but comorbid factors.

As to outings...

Let's go back to Jimmy the hypothetical drunk's kid.

Jimmy's mom going to the bar and making a scene and getting publicly drunk before drunk driving to school to pick Jimmy up and then instead getting picked up by the school safety officer and thrown in the back of the car in front of the entire student body...

Still does not mean that it's any less of an outing when Bobby loudly says "Jimmy's mom is a drunk".

 

[TomC]

Nope. You're confusing me with someone else. I have never even used the term "trans erasure".

Then I apologize. Perhaps I was drinking or something.
Tom

 

[Jarhyn]

Nope. You're confusing me with someone else. I have never even used the term "trans erasure".

Then I apologize. Perhaps I was drinking or something.
Tom

NP. Also, I like you. You're pretty alright, even if we argue a lot.

 

[Gospel]

When did being gender critical become a gender?

 

[Angra Mainyu]

When did being gender critical become a gender?

Did it become a gender?
Anyway, I wonder, when did "No pls.", "Here." and "Faggot" become genders?

 

[Gospel]

When did being gender critical become a gender?

Did it become a gender?
Anyway, I wonder, when did "No pls.", "Here." and "Faggot" become genders?

It's the "coming out" part that lead me to believe it was some sort of gender reveal. I've known Metaphor's position on gender (fairly simple too, male & female's only) thus why I knew it wasn't a reveal for that.

 

[blastula]

Weak flex.

 

[TomC]

When did being gender critical become a gender?

Did it become a gender?
Anyway, I wonder, when did "No pls.", "Here." and "Faggot" become genders?

They aren't genders. But they are cues.

My entering "faggot", in a quite optional field on a social media platform, should tell you things about me. Things that aren't cued by my gendered screen name.

People who find this difficult to follow are also delivering cues about themselves, whether they realize it or not.
Tom

 

[Angra Mainyu]

When did being gender critical become a gender?

Did it become a gender?
Anyway, I wonder, when did "No pls.", "Here." and "Faggot" become genders?

It's the "coming out" part that lead me to believe it was some sort of gender reveal. I've known Metaphor's position on gender (fairly simple too, male & female's only) thus why I knew it wasn't a reveal for that.

It sounds more like a coming out as an atheist sort of thing to me.

 

[Angra Mainyu]

When did being gender critical become a gender?

Did it become a gender?
Anyway, I wonder, when did "No pls.", "Here." and "Faggot" become genders?

They aren't genders. But they are cues.

My entering "faggot", in a quite optional field on a social media platform, should tell you things about me. Things that aren't cued by my gendered screen name.

People who find this difficult to follow are also delivering cues about themselves, whether they realize it or not.
Tom

Or maybe they do not find it difficult to follow that those are not genders (even though it's unclear what it is meant by 'gender' in W-English, those do not count), but ask because it says 'gender', in a non-serious way.

 

[TomC]

When did being gender critical become a gender?

Did it become a gender?
Anyway, I wonder, when did "No pls.", "Here." and "Faggot" become genders?

It's the "coming out" part that lead me to believe it was some sort of gender reveal. I've known Metaphor's position on gender (fairly simple too, male & female's only) thus why I knew it wasn't a reveal for that.

It sounds more like a coming out as an atheist sort of thing to me.

Missing @Gospel's lame attempt at humour is another cue. As is putting an utterly extraneous u in humor. And referring to his joke as lame.

Really, it's kinda fun, this parsing of cues.

Tom

 

[Angra Mainyu]

When did being gender critical become a gender?

Did it become a gender?
Anyway, I wonder, when did "No pls.", "Here." and "Faggot" become genders?

It's the "coming out" part that lead me to believe it was some sort of gender reveal. I've known Metaphor's position on gender (fairly simple too, male & female's only) thus why I knew it wasn't a reveal for that.

It sounds more like a coming out as an atheist sort of thing to me.

Missing @Gospel's lame attempt at humour is another cue. As is putting an utterly extraneous u in humor. And referring to his joke as lame.

Really, it's kinda fun, this parsing of cues.

Tom

But I did see Gospel's attempt; it's that I saw it as a mixture of humor and challenge. You on the other hand missed my attempt at humor in my reply to Gospel (a minor miss, though, nothing like the other thread).

 

[Gospel]

When did being gender critical become a gender?

Did it become a gender?
Anyway, I wonder, when did "No pls.", "Here." and "Faggot" become genders?

It's the "coming out" part that lead me to believe it was some sort of gender reveal. I've known Metaphor's position on gender (fairly simple too, male & female's only) thus why I knew it wasn't a reveal for that.

It sounds more like a coming out as an atheist sort of thing to me.

Missing @Gospel's lame attempt at humour is another cue. As is putting an utterly extraneous u in humor. And referring to his joke as lame.

Really, it's kinda fun, this parsing of cues.

Tom

But I did see Gospel's attempt; it's that I saw it as a mixture of humor and challenge. You on the other hand missed my attempt at humor in my reply to Gospel (a minor miss, though, nothing like the other thread).

Yeah, it was a mixture of humor and challenge. I found your "coming out as an atheist" an acceptable interpretation. I do wish you luck on that Metaphor, sincerely.

 

[TomC]

When did being gender critical become a gender?

Did it become a gender?
Anyway, I wonder, when did "No pls.", "Here." and "Faggot" become genders?

It's the "coming out" part that lead me to believe it was some sort of gender reveal. I've known Metaphor's position on gender (fairly simple too, male & female's only) thus why I knew it wasn't a reveal for that.

It sounds more like a coming out as an atheist sort of thing to me.

Missing @Gospel's lame attempt at humour is another cue. As is putting an utterly extraneous u in humor. And referring to his joke as lame.

Really, it's kinda fun, this parsing of cues.

Tom

But I did see Gospel's attempt; it's that I saw it as a mixture of humor and challenge. You on the other hand missed my attempt at humor in my reply to Gospel (a minor miss, though, nothing like the other thread).

Yeah, it was a mixture of humor and challenge. I found your "coming out as an atheist" an acceptable interpretation. I do wish you luck on that Metaphor, sincerely.

Notice that @Angra Mainyu didn't question the lame part.


Tom

ETA~Possibly because Argentineans don't catch the subtleties of insults among us USonians. It's quite possible that he didn't notice you referring to me as a bundle of sticks. ~