bilby
Fair dinkum thinkum
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2007
- Messages
- 34,300
- Gender
- He/Him
- Basic Beliefs
- Strong Atheist
Your beliefs are not in any way related to these facts, though.At this point your posts have degenerated into an emotional rant against atheists. Many people find it hard to believe that their cherished beliefs might be wrong, and I expect that is what you are experiencing. There is no good reason to believe in gods, no matter what you might have been indoctrinated into believing, and I think you understand that now, even if you are unwilling to acknowledge it publicly.
Some people believe that pan-dimensional pixies created the universe with intelligent life in it
This belief would be falsified if a universe with intelligent life in it did not exist
The universe exists, and there is intelligent life in it
Therefore, the existence of the universe with intelligent life in it is evidence for the existence of pan-dimensional pixies
Some people believe we owe our existence to mindless forces that didn't intend their own existence, the existence of the universe or life and least of all intelligent humans. They don't believe it was intentionally caused to exist. Its just like mindless forces to pull a stunt like this some how come into existence and accidentally cause the conditions for theism to be true. No matter how much blathering and posturing is done in the final analysis nothing we observe has to be true for the belief God doesn't exist to be true. There doesn't have to be a universe, galaxies, stars, planets, water, oxygen, carbon, laws of physics, gravity.
I'm not attempting to convince anyone responding to my posts the truth of my belief. Its a belief, an opinion. I'm not stating it's a fact. I don't deny there is evidence which supports a natural view of the world. No one here knows how or why a life permitting universe exists. If we discover how life actually got started and how it could have occurred that would be big fact in favor of naturalism. If it turns out this is in fact one of an infinitude of universes with varying characteristics then time and chance would rule.
I knew I was going to run into a buzz saw because its pratically a hallowed concept of atheism that there is no evidence, no facts, no data, no information no reason in the world anyone should think our existence might have been intentionally caused. We should just accept (evidently on faith) that our existence is the result of chance caused by mindless forces that didn't intend our existence. You don't feel people should be skeptical of your claim.
You are new here, and I hope you stick around and continue to participate in these discussions. Perhaps you will bring yourself to reflect on these discussions when you have calmed down, and make an effort to understand the perspectives of the people who have tried to engage you.
My posts are an emotional rant? Have you looked at the responses I've gotten?
You want to replace the word God or Creator with Pixies. I can replace natural causes with mindless forces. My belief is due in part to the three facts I listed. No God of the gaps. Just facts.
F1 The universe exists
I believe it was intentionally caused to exist. You believe it was unintentionally caused by forces that didn't intend their own existence. You believe all the circumstances to cause intelligent human life exist occurred naturally with no plan or intent for it to happen. We owe our existence to a fortuitous stroke of luck. You have an alternate explanation? If a universe didn't exist theism would be falsified.
F2 Life exists
You know of any law or rule that says life of any sort has to exist? Did mindless forces have to cause a universe to exist? Does a universe and life have to exist for theism to be true? Yeah they do. If any condition has to be true for a claim to be true those conditions are evidence the claim is true.
F3 Intelligent life exists.
Theism is the belief the universe was caused for the purpose of creating intelligent life. Did intelligent life have to exist? Is there some law of physics that compels mindless forces to create a universe with the properties that can subsequently cause intelligent life to exist?
F4. The fact the universe has laws of nature, is knowable, uniform and to a large extent predictable, amenable to scientific research, the laws of logic deduction and induction and is explicable in mathematical terms.
These characteristics are necessary for the second and third facts to obtain which are necessary for theism to be true. This fourth fact is not only essential for theism to be true it directly contradicts the belief this universe was caused by unguided forces with no plan or intent to cause intelligent life to occur.
No one has disputed the facts I've listed are true. Not one of them needs to be true for atheism to be true. All four have to be true for theism to be true. Your explanation for the aforementioned facts is shit happens. It wasn't intentional just an accident. A happy fortuitous luck of the draw.
If I were you I'd point out the chaotic nature of the universe, how evolution appears to account for how organisms become more complicated. How the earth formed by natural causes as well as the natural universe. But we can't have that discussion because you can't bring yourself to admit there are factual reasons why people believe the universe was intentionally caused to exist. So instead you resort to the usual tactics. Those tactics only impress your fellow totally committed atheists.
And these facts give the most tenuous possible support to your beliefs; That is, they are consistent with both your beliefs, AND the exact opposite of your beliefs.
F1 Some people have been murdered.
Therefore I believe that you are a murderer.
I suspect that you would demand a slightly more rigorous set of evidence for my belief that you are a murderer, before accepting that you should be sent to the electric chair.
Your entire 'argument' is a misapplication of logic and reason. It's structurally wrong on every level, so it's irrelevant that the premises are factual.
You cannot deny that some people have been murdered. If you can comprehend why your acceptance of that undeniable fact is NOT an admission of your guilt in first degree homicide, then you should also be able to comprehend why the existence of a universe with life, intelligence, and at least some comprehensible natural laws is NOT a reason to believe in any kinds of gods.