Jarhyn said:
Ok, you got me. Those who fear the society is uncivilized, and those who rejoice to make society uncivilized.
And those who fear that some of the members of the society are uncivilized (more precisely, violent criminals) and they pose enough of a threat to warrant carrying a firearm, even if the vast majority of the members of the society are civilized.
Jarhyn said:
I don't think either warrants the activity to carry around guns and actually MAKE it uncivilized no matter what your motivation is.
But in some cases, it does warrant the activity of carrying around guns, without making it uncivilized.
Whether it is warranted depends on the case.
Jarhyn said:
Your fear that you need guns to make criminals not commit crime (you don't!) Makes the criminals know that guns are what they need to commit crime.
I was not talking about me. I was challenging your claim about reasons for wanting a gun.
That aside, there are places in which criminals regularly do carry guns. Or they carry knives and kill people just as well. And carrying a gun for self-defense would be a rational choice for many, who would rationally prefer the odds gun vs. gun rather than nothing vs. knife, or knife vs. knife, etc.
Jarhyn said:
I live in a fairly large city and I commute through it on public transit. I live in one of the poorest regions in that large city, and I see many of the poorest people who live here, often on a daily basis. Yet somehow these 10%* have only materialized three or four times, for me.
First, I said "well over" 90%. It could be 95%. Or 99%, etc. I'm considering a hypothetical scenario, and a realistic one, and pointing out there are reasons for wanting a gun other than what you said. Whether the use of guns is justified depends on how dangerous the others are, among other factors.
Second, I never suggested that it was justified where you live. It's almost certainly much less than 10%, but in any case, it might or might not be justified for all I know; I do not have enough information to tell. (side note: 3 or 4 times seems like a lot to me. But perhaps street criminal where you live are not so prone to use violence; I do not know).
Jarhyn said:
That is very few times for 10% of the population to try something.
Indeed; 10% levels or more I reckon you might get in some (limited) places in the Wild West, 19th century or before, things like that...or in some pretty bad places in the present day. But I'm not sure how high it could get.
Jarhyn said:
You are not making a very strong case for decaying the civilization level of our society
You're not making a very strong case for dropping nukes in Russia?
I'm not making a case for " decaying the civilization level of our society ". I am arguing that people want guns for reasons other than what you claim.
Jarhyn said:
*wow, btw, a whole 10% of your world is criminals waiting to rob and rape you? That must be an awful place to live!!
First, no, I never suggested that.
Second, rob me? A lot fewer than that, but enough for me to be looking around carefully, especially but not only at night. It does increase the awfulness of the place by a lot.
Third, rape me? The risk is far too low for me to be concerned. Nearly all street criminals (or any other kind) would almost certainly not be interested. But for other people, it would be a serious concern.