Covid-19 miscellany

[Metaphor]

No, my observations directly of people who did exactly this sort of spreading of misinformation for the joys of watching people be touched and be harmed by the resulting chaos caused by this malignant imposed ignorance make that a reality.

You hang around some sick people.

 

[Jarhyn]

No, my observations directly of people who did exactly this sort of spreading of misinformation for the joys of watching people be touched and be harmed by the resulting chaos caused by this malignant imposed ignorance make that a reality.

You hang around some sick people.

Hung.

Re:

through my 20's

So I can absolutely say I know of the existence of some sick people, that they are out there, they like finding places like this, and they like spewing misinformation there as much as they can without getting banned.

 

[Toni]

No, my observations directly of people who did exactly this sort of spreading of misinformation for the joys of watching people be touched and be harmed by the resulting chaos caused by this malignant imposed ignorance make that a reality.

You hang around some sick people.

I think that Jarhyn has a point, although I never thought if it quite that way. Example that leaps to mind: some prominent members of the GOP and some well known FoX commentators are vaccinated themselves and cheer on all of those who are refusing to be vaccinated. As far as I can see, for shits and giggles. Oh, and power and bucks.

 

[Metaphor]

No, my observations directly of people who did exactly this sort of spreading of misinformation for the joys of watching people be touched and be harmed by the resulting chaos caused by this malignant imposed ignorance make that a reality.

You hang around some sick people.

I think that Jarhyn has a point, although I never thought if it quite that way. Example that leaps to mind: some prominent members of the GOP and some well known FoX commentators are vaccinated themselves and cheer on all of those who are refusing to be vaccinated. As far as I can see, for shits and giggles. Oh, and power and bucks.

That some such people may exist does not mean the unvaccinated ("plague rats", in your dehumanising language) want to inflict suffering on the world. In fact, you make it sound like the exact opposite - that the 'inflict suffering for shits and giggles' crowd is a subgroup of the vaccinated.

 

[Swammerdami]

People in group A don't want the vaccine, so forcing it on them is not a benefit to them. You are forcing it on them for your benefit, not theirs.

A young child may not want to eat his medicine but nevertheless benefits when his mother forces him to do so.

Are you under the impression that Covid is in the same league with Bubonic Plague? Typhus? Polio? Small Pox? Spanish Flu?

The word "Democrat" has three silent k's.

COVID-19 Death Toll Surpasses 1918 Spanish Flu in America. This despite that ...

at the time of the Spanish flu, health care was significantly less advanced. There were no antibiotics, no antivirals, and no vaccines against the Spanish flu. One reason the Spanish flu was so lethal was there were no antibiotics to treat secondary bacterial infections, so control efforts around the globe were limited to non-pharmaceutical responses like isolation, quarantine, disinfectants and limiting public gatherings, although then as now, they were applied erratically. The first flu vaccine to be licensed in the U.S. came about in the 1940s.

“Big pockets of American society — and, worse, their leaders — have thrown this away,” medical historian Howard Markel of the University of Michigan, told NPR, of the reluctance for people to be vaccinated against COVID-19.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

I think the argument is that when you don't do it, a lot more people die and from a "force" perspective, the plague rats are forcing their diseases via breaths, coughs, and sneezes onto others

In a spirit of compromise: Perhaps unvaccinated people should be allowed to present in public. But not be allowed to operate their lungs or nasal system when others are present.

 

[Jarhyn]

No, my observations directly of people who did exactly this sort of spreading of misinformation for the joys of watching people be touched and be harmed by the resulting chaos caused by this malignant imposed ignorance make that a reality.

You hang around some sick people.

I think that Jarhyn has a point, although I never thought if it quite that way. Example that leaps to mind: some prominent members of the GOP and some well known FoX commentators are vaccinated themselves and cheer on all of those who are refusing to be vaccinated. As far as I can see, for shits and giggles. Oh, and power and bucks.

The fact is that looking at this part of my past, and speaking openly about it, is like ripping off an old, nasty scab with some pus underneath.

It isn't pretty, and yeah, I definitely hung around some bad people. Not everyone grows up from that, and eventually, that kind of behavior can find and run along the cracks of society and widening them as they go.

There are reasons I have such a relationship as I do with not wanting to be a villain.

In many ways I understand and accept that there will be offensive things.

Fireworks will light up the sky, and make some veterans curl up and cry instead of looking up with joy.

People will, in virtual worlds, lampoon media in insensitive ways pertaining to the demands that certain tragedies and elements of society be allowed to be dealt with and coped with in humor.

Be shocking all you want and watch the shocked person cry all they want.

Sometimes there will be people who move in next to you and sell dildos instead of hats or whatever.

I accept these things in my world even if they are things I don't participate in anymore and try to actively discourage.

What I really won't ever accept is when people leverage asymmetries between each other unilaterally.

As it is, when I speak of "plague rats", I do not speak of the unvaccinated at large, I am speaking specifically of and at the people who are seeking to watch the world burn for their sick amusement.

 

[TSwizzle]

The logic appears to be that if people who don’t own or ride motorcycles are forced to wear helmets it will stop the pandemic.

 

[Toni]

The logic appears to be that if people who don’t own or ride motorcycles are forced to wear helmets it will stop the pandemic.

You need to clean your glasses.

 

[Toni]

No, my observations directly of people who did exactly this sort of spreading of misinformation for the joys of watching people be touched and be harmed by the resulting chaos caused by this malignant imposed ignorance make that a reality.

You hang around some sick people.

I think that Jarhyn has a point, although I never thought if it quite that way. Example that leaps to mind: some prominent members of the GOP and some well known FoX commentators are vaccinated themselves and cheer on all of those who are refusing to be vaccinated. As far as I can see, for shits and giggles. Oh, and power and bucks.

That some such people may exist does not mean the unvaccinated ("plague rats", in your dehumanising language) want to inflict suffering on the world. In fact, you make it sound like the exact opposite - that the 'inflict suffering for shits and giggles' crowd is a subgroup of the vaccinated.

I assumed that everyone realized that they (the mostly vaccinated who encourage others to not be vaccinated) are hypocrites.

Sorry to have left that out if it caused any misunderstanding.

Many of those who are refusing to be vaccinated are deluded. It’s unfortunate that they have been so seriously misled by those who will not bear any ( or muc) risk of disease themselves. I truly feel very bad for them. I may have mentioned that people I know have died from COVID because they were misled and their deepest fears were played upon by those who knew better and chose to be vaccinated themselves.

That doesn’t mean that we need to allow them to prolong the pandemic because they are ignorant and afraid.

 

[repoman]

In post 6,426 why did you not account for population size?

 

[Metaphor]

No, my observations directly of people who did exactly this sort of spreading of misinformation for the joys of watching people be touched and be harmed by the resulting chaos caused by this malignant imposed ignorance make that a reality.

You hang around some sick people.

I think that Jarhyn has a point, although I never thought if it quite that way. Example that leaps to mind: some prominent members of the GOP and some well known FoX commentators are vaccinated themselves and cheer on all of those who are refusing to be vaccinated. As far as I can see, for shits and giggles. Oh, and power and bucks.

That some such people may exist does not mean the unvaccinated ("plague rats", in your dehumanising language) want to inflict suffering on the world. In fact, you make it sound like the exact opposite - that the 'inflict suffering for shits and giggles' crowd is a subgroup of the vaccinated.

I assumed that everyone realized that they (the mostly vaccinated who encourage others to not be vaccinated) are hypocrites.

Sorry to have left that out if it caused any misunderstanding.

Many of those who are refusing to be vaccinated are deluded. It’s unfortunate that they have been so seriously misled by those who will not bear any ( or muc) risk of disease themselves.

What a ridiculously ignorant statement. For it to be true, it would mean vaccination has no effect whatsoever. Neither you nor I believe that.

 

[bilby]

People have a right to not be vaccinated but they do not have a right to wander about outside of their personal property endangering the lives of others, including those who cannot be vaccinated or for whom vaccination might not be sufficient protection, such as transplant patients.

I am not going through this again. You are not going to convince me that forcing medical procedures on unconsenting adults is a good and proper thing. It is not. It is evil.

Allowing plague rats to walk around killing people is evil, no matter how much you think we should tolerate it.

Are you under the impression that Covid is in the same league with Bubonic Plague? Typhus? Polio? Small Pox? Spanish Flu?

Those diseases (apart from Spanish Flu) killed people for centuries, but have been almost completely eradicated in the last six decades or so by vaccines and antibiotics.

The exception, Spanish Flu (which originated in the USA), killed about ten times as many people worldwide as Covid has killed so far; given that Covid isn't over yet by a long chalk, and that medical care is far more effective today than it was a century ago, it's certainly highly reasonable to place Covid-19 in the same league as Spanish Flu.

Had Spanish Flu been treated using today's medical care, with our access to antibiotics for secondary infection, mechanical ventilators, ICU facilities, and a century more experience of managing respiratory diseases, it would very much be in the same ballpark of mortality as Covid-19.

That you are incredulous that it might be thought similarly dangerous, when it evidently is, suggests that you are deeply ignorant of at least one of these pandemics.

 

[Jarhyn]

What a ridiculously ignorant statement. For it to be true, it would mean vaccination has no effect whatsoever. Neither you nor I believe that.

Which of the following statements, please, must imply such a ridiculous corollary?

(A) they (the mostly vaccinated who encourage others to not be vaccinated) are hypocrites.

(B) Many of those who are refusing to be vaccinated are deluded.

(C) they have been so seriously misled...

(D) they have been so... by those who will not bear any ( or muc) risk of disease themselves.

Please show your work.

 

[Metaphor]

What a ridiculously ignorant statement. For it to be true, it would mean vaccination has no effect whatsoever. Neither you nor I believe that.

Which of the following statements, please, must imply such a ridiculous corollary?

(A) they (the mostly vaccinated who encourage others to not be vaccinated) are hypocrites.

(B) Many of those who are refusing to be vaccinated are deluded.

(C) they have been so seriously misled...

(D) they have been so... by those who will not bear any ( or muc) risk of disease themselves.

Please show your work.

Unvaccinated people bear the greatest risk from being unvaccinated. If vaccinated people bore the greatest risk, it would mean vaccination had worse than no effect--it would have to have a negative effect.

 

[Jarhyn]

What a ridiculously ignorant statement. For it to be true, it would mean vaccination has no effect whatsoever. Neither you nor I believe that.

Which of the following statements, please, must imply such a ridiculous corollary?

(A) they (the mostly vaccinated who encourage others to not be vaccinated) are hypocrites.

(B) Many of those who are refusing to be vaccinated are deluded.

(C) they have been so seriously misled...

(D) they have been so... by those who will not bear any ( or muc) risk of disease themselves.

Please show your work.

Unvaccinated people bear the greatest risk from being unvaccinated. If vaccinated people bore the greatest risk, it would mean vaccination had worse than no effect--it would have to have a negative effect.

So you believe those who say
"(the mostly vaccinated who encourage others to not be vaccinated) who will not bear any ( or muc) risk of disease themselves." Implies that... Those people will bear risk?

This statement is not facing the vaccinated population at large, only the unvaccinated and those who encourage them to be.

 

[Metaphor]

What a ridiculously ignorant statement. For it to be true, it would mean vaccination has no effect whatsoever. Neither you nor I believe that.

Which of the following statements, please, must imply such a ridiculous corollary?

(A) they (the mostly vaccinated who encourage others to not be vaccinated) are hypocrites.

(B) Many of those who are refusing to be vaccinated are deluded.

(C) they have been so seriously misled...

(D) they have been so... by those who will not bear any ( or muc) risk of disease themselves.

Please show your work.

Unvaccinated people bear the greatest risk from being unvaccinated. If vaccinated people bore the greatest risk, it would mean vaccination had worse than no effect--it would have to have a negative effect.

So you believe those who say
"(the mostly vaccinated who encourage others to not be vaccinated) who will not bear any ( or muc) risk of disease themselves." Implies that... Those people will bear risk?

This statement is not facing the vaccinated population at large, only the unvaccinated and those who encourage them to be.

No. Toni specifically talked about vaccinated people talking unvaccinated people into staying unvaccinated.

Toni, and others on this board, call the unvaccinated "plague rats".

That Toni, and others, are so easy with their dehumanisation is their moral failing to deal with.

 

[Swammerdami]

Had Spanish Flu been treated using today's medical care, with our access to antibiotics for secondary infection, mechanical ventilators, ICU facilities, and a century more experience of managing respiratory diseases, it would very much be in the same ballpark of mortality as Covid-19.

That you are incredulous that it might be thought similarly dangerous, when it evidently is, suggests that you are deeply ignorant of at least one of these pandemics.

Given the hugely better medical resources of today, I think Covid-19 is (a priori) WORSE than Spanish Flu, rather than "in same ballpark." Especially so because of "long Covid": many survivors suffer permanent damage (is this true of flu?). On the other hand, Covid-19 is most dangerous for the elderly whose lives are arguably less important.

Speaking of over-population ( ) we may expect more new-virus pandemics in future, propelled by high densities and high-speed transport. Hopefully their impacts will be reduced by medical advances and, yes, mitigations like mandatory masks and mandatory vaccinations.

It might be interesting to compare this pandemic with historic pandemics MUCH worse than the Spanish Flu. Plagues that decimated Europe in the mid-6th century and in the mid-14th century had VERY profound effects, some beneficial, on the development of civilization. Some right-wingers have advocated to let Covid-19 rip — no masks, no distancing, no vaccine — and let the death toll increase by many millions. That policy might not be quite as wrong-headed as it may seem, but those right-wingers ignore the tolls that a high preventable death rate would take on the living.

 

[Jarhyn]

What a ridiculously ignorant statement. For it to be true, it would mean vaccination has no effect whatsoever. Neither you nor I believe that.

Which of the following statements, please, must imply such a ridiculous corollary?

(A) they (the mostly vaccinated who encourage others to not be vaccinated) are hypocrites.

(B) Many of those who are refusing to be vaccinated are deluded.

(C) they have been so seriously misled...

(D) they have been so... by those who will not bear any ( or muc) risk of disease themselves.

Please show your work.

Unvaccinated people bear the greatest risk from being unvaccinated. If vaccinated people bore the greatest risk, it would mean vaccination had worse than no effect--it would have to have a negative effect.

So you believe those who say
"(the mostly vaccinated who encourage others to not be vaccinated) who will not bear any ( or muc) risk of disease themselves." Implies that... Those people will bear risk?

This statement is not facing the vaccinated population at large, only the unvaccinated and those who encourage them to be.

No. Toni specifically talked about...

This is the post that we are discussing right now.

I assumed that everyone realized that they (the mostly vaccinated who encourage others to not be vaccinated) are hypocrites.

Sorry to have left that out if it caused any misunderstanding.

Many of those who are refusing to be vaccinated are deluded. It’s unfortunate that they have been so seriously misled by those who will not bear any ( or muc) risk of disease themselves. I truly feel very bad for them. I may have mentioned that people I know have died from COVID because they were misled and their deepest fears were played upon by those who knew better and chose to be vaccinated themselves.

That doesn’t mean that we need to allow them to prolong the pandemic because they are ignorant and afraid.

As it is clear Toni is discussing specifically

the mostly vaccinated who encourage others to not be vaccinated

And because you quoted where she said it:

(A) they (the mostly vaccinated who encourage others to not be vaccinated) are hypocrites.

I can fairly well say you are mischaracterizing her views.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

It appears you believe that I oppose drinking water standards. Why do you think that?

Because you said you oppose mandates.

 

[blastula]

Aaron Rodgers blasts Biden;

while Biden was touring a tornado-ravaged part of Kentucky, he whispered to a woman in a Green Bay Packers cap and shirt, "Tell that quarterback he's gotta get the vaccine."
The interaction was captured on camera ... and when Rodgers was finally asked about it as part of a lengthy interview with ESPN this week -- he said he was pissed. Then, he took his own jabs at POTUS.
"When the president of the United States says, 'This is a pandemic of the unvaccinated,' it's because him and his constituents, which, I don't know how there are any if you watch any of his attempts at public speaking, but I guess he got 81 million votes," Rodgers said. “But when you say stuff like that, and then you have the CDC, which, how do you even trust them, but then they come out and talk about 75% of the COVID deaths have at least four comorbidities." Rodgers continued, "And you still have this fake White House set saying that this is the pandemic of the unvaccinated, that's not helping the conversation."

TMZ

Ouch.

Poor QAaron Rodgers won't get to meet the tyrant Biden at the fake White House now.