Covid-19 miscellany

[Metaphor]

So, in this thread, the unvaccinated have been called plague rats by:

barbos
blastula
Loren Pechtel
ZiprHead
Jimmy Higgins
TomC
crazyfingers
Elixir

among others.

I started an exchange with Toni and referred to how the term 'plague rats' had been used to refer to the unvaccinated, but a search shows that Toni herself does not appear to have done that in this thread. So, I apologise for saying or implying that Toni called the unvaccinated 'plague rats', I was mistaken to do so.

I can also see that there has been a misunderstanding (my fault) about the group of people who are morally blameworthy. Toni was specifically singling out vaccinated people who had a public platform and encouraged others to be unvaccinated. I can only imagine that that behaviour comes from a tiny percentage of the population and does not reflect on the moral status of most vaccinated people.

 

[Jarhyn]

So, in this thread, the unvaccinated have been called plague rats by:

barbos
blastula
Loren Pechtel
ZiprHead
Jimmy Higgins
TomC
crazyfingers
Elixir

among others.

I started an exchange with Toni and referred to how the term 'plague rats' had been used to refer to the unvaccinated, but a search shows that Toni herself does not appear to have done that in this thread. So, I apologise for saying or implying that Toni called the unvaccinated 'plague rats', I was mistaken to do so.

I can also see that there has been a misunderstanding (my fault) about the group of people who are morally blameworthy. Toni was specifically singling out vaccinated people who had a public platform and encouraged others to be unvaccinated. I can only imagine that that behaviour comes from a tiny percentage of the population and does not reflect on the moral status of most vaccinated people.

Hey, all you lot, ZiprHead Jimmy Higgins, TomC, crazyfingers, Elixir, who have among you if this is your intent to have used "plague rats" to discuss any being that could be described vaguely as 'human or humanlike' perhaps to include actual rats...


Can we agree at this moment to use this term in such a way as to exclusively refer to those malicious actors who spread plague for their own sick amusement, and reserve more loving words for their victims?

 

[bilby]

A disease so deadly that you have to be tested to know if you have it

What, you mean like AIDS? Or Influenza? Or, well, pretty much every single disease in human history?

Tell me you know fuck-all about how diseases work, without telling me you know fuck-all about how diseases work.

In 2008, on the Grand Canyon’s southern rim, a biologist named Eric York found a dead mountain lion with a bloody nose but no other signs of trauma. He took it back to his garage to perform an autopsy, which revealed nothing unusual.

Two days later, York developed a bad cough. He felt weak, achy, tired. His doctor told him he had a flu-like illness and sent him home. Two days after that, York was dead.

This time, the autopsy did reveal something. York was stricken with the plague, also known as the Black Death, the same disease that wiped out half of Europe during the fourteenth century. Public-health officials gave antibiotics to everyone who had come in contact with York.

https://endeavors.unc.edu/black_death_threat

I don't know why they bothered giving out antibiotics, for a disease so deadly his corpse needed to be tested for them to know that he had it.

 

[ZiprHead]

And vaccination works. Huh. Imagine that.

Hmmm, for covid omicron covid it’s not working as advertised.

FTFY. But then again the vaccine wasn't designed for omicron. But you knew that, didn't you.

 

[ZiprHead]

A disease so deadly that you have to be tested to know if you have it

What, you mean like AIDS? Or Influenza? Or, well, pretty much every single disease in human history?

Tell me you know fuck-all about how diseases work, without telling me you know fuck-all about how diseases work.

I bet he tells his wife not to bother with those pesky mammograms. No need to worry until symptoms become apparent.

 

[ZiprHead]

So, in this thread, the unvaccinated have been called plague rats by:

barbos
blastula
Loren Pechtel
ZiprHead
Jimmy Higgins
TomC
crazyfingers
Elixir

among others.

I started an exchange with Toni and referred to how the term 'plague rats' had been used to refer to the unvaccinated, but a search shows that Toni herself does not appear to have done that in this thread. So, I apologise for saying or implying that Toni called the unvaccinated 'plague rats', I was mistaken to do so.

I can also see that there has been a misunderstanding (my fault) about the group of people who are morally blameworthy. Toni was specifically singling out vaccinated people who had a public platform and encouraged others to be unvaccinated. I can only imagine that that behaviour comes from a tiny percentage of the population and does not reflect on the moral status of most vaccinated people.

Yes, please. Let's focus on your petty complaint about names instead of focusing on a disease that's killing thousands of people a day. Need to focus on the important stuff, right?

 

[ZiprHead]

So long, suckah!

 

[Jarhyn]

So, in this thread, the unvaccinated have been called plague rats by:

barbos
blastula
Loren Pechtel
ZiprHead
Jimmy Higgins
TomC
crazyfingers
Elixir

among others.

I started an exchange with Toni and referred to how the term 'plague rats' had been used to refer to the unvaccinated, but a search shows that Toni herself does not appear to have done that in this thread. So, I apologise for saying or implying that Toni called the unvaccinated 'plague rats', I was mistaken to do so.

I can also see that there has been a misunderstanding (my fault) about the group of people who are morally blameworthy. Toni was specifically singling out vaccinated people who had a public platform and encouraged others to be unvaccinated. I can only imagine that that behaviour comes from a tiny percentage of the population and does not reflect on the moral status of most vaccinated people.

Yes, please. Let's focus on your petty complaint about names instead of focusing on a disease that's killing thousands of people a day. Need to focus on the important stuff, right?

But moreover, we can agree going forward to just use such terms as "plague rat" to discuss specifically those malicious actors who spread plague for their own sick amusement, and reserve more loving words for their victims?

It is enough to say that actively anti-vax persons are suspect as plague rats, and that they hide among their victims often enough.

The whole crowd is sick, though, whether with misinformation or the desire to misinform. Sometimes it is both.

This is why it bears discussion so as to make clear what information is misinformation and see who keeps spreading it anyway.

Victims will, hopefully, not double down in this inflicted ignorance while those who wish to preserve their fuse to chaos will, seemingly, be more out out.

 

[Metaphor]

Yes, please. Let's focus on your petty complaint about names instead of focusing on a disease that's killing thousands of people a day. Need to focus on the important stuff, right?

The dehumanising of people is a precursor to persecuting them. But, even if it were not, why the dehumanisation?

 

[Jarhyn]

Yes, please. Let's focus on your petty complaint about names instead of focusing on a disease that's killing thousands of people a day. Need to focus on the important stuff, right?

The dehumanising of people is a precursor to persecuting them. But, even if it were not, why the dehumanisation?

I think personally that prosecuting those malicious actors who spread plague for their own sick amusement is entirely warranted.

I'm not going to call them "people".

 

[Metaphor]

Yes, please. Let's focus on your petty complaint about names instead of focusing on a disease that's killing thousands of people a day. Need to focus on the important stuff, right?

The dehumanising of people is a precursor to persecuting them. But, even if it were not, why the dehumanisation?

I think personally that prosecuting those malicious actors who spread plague for their own sick amusement is entirely warranted.

I'm not going to call them "people".

You are free to do as you please, obviously. But I'm sure you'll still respect their pronouns when you dehumanise them.

 

[Jarhyn]

Yes, please. Let's focus on your petty complaint about names instead of focusing on a disease that's killing thousands of people a day. Need to focus on the important stuff, right?

The dehumanising of people is a precursor to persecuting them. But, even if it were not, why the dehumanisation?

I think personally that prosecuting those malicious actors who spread plague for their own sick amusement is entirely warranted.

I'm not going to call them "people".

You are free to do as you please, obviously. <Attempt at derailment>

The fact is, those malicious actors who spread plague for their own sick amusement, are doing something disgusting and evil.

And they are spreading misinformation like anything on the topic that is not "wear a mask to prevent the spread while indoors and close quarters, get vaccinated, get boosted, quarantine, get tested regularly, and limit social gatherings."

Some people do it for fun, some do it as their unwitting stooges.

I would like to hope only the unimaginably stupid, or hopelessly brainwashed might follow them. They all deserve our love often at the recording end of the least harmful, most difficult to circumvent, and otherwise effective education we can provide at the boundary of our society to welcome them in.

But they do need to be recognized as outside that society until they ask to come back in through the doorway of vaccination

 

[Toni]

What metric is anyone using when they decide it is right and proper to force medical procedures on unconsenting adult group A, solely for the benefit of group B?

In any case, I do not think it is any longer productive to argue public policy with people who are so callous that they dehumanise their targeted group as 'plague rats'.

Is it OK to force you to not pull the trigger of a gun when it's pointed at "Group B"?

By your thinking it's perfectly OK to knowingly take chances with other people's lives. What ever happened to personal responsibility?

People with COVID should isolate like anyone else with COVID.

I reject that people without COVID are pointing a gun at anybody.

What do you mean by ‘having COVID?’ Do you mean feeling ill? Do you mean having an asymptomatic infection?

Even if someone has been vaxxed and boosted and wears a mask and feels well, it is possible that they are infected and are asymptomatic—which is why we should all be wearing masks and be vaccinated, etc.
Yes, it is possible to still be infected but the risk of serious disease is very much reduced for most people.

Why should we not all be doing everything we can to protect ourselves and each other?

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Oh for fuck's sake, if comparing humans to rats isn't dehumanising then fuck nothing could be. This is fucking ridiculous.

What's ridiculous is attempting to have an intelligent discussion with someone who says they support mandates for clean water but oppose mandates for vaccinations. Maybe you should give us a list of current mandates you oppose and current mandates you support. Then maybe we could understand where you are coming from.

 

[Swammerdami]

... You and your fascist brethren don't want the unvaccinated to form their own associations. ... fascist brethren ... fascist brethren ... fines in perpetuity and/or indefinite house arrest ... fascist brethren ...

I don't know about Oz, but in the U.S.A. it's the Communists vs the Fascists. Fascists vs fascists would be just too confusing. And please, amidst all the repetition of "brethren" let us don't forget the Communist Sisters — in the recent election, gender was one of the strongest predictors of voting: Sisters voting for the Communist D's; White Brethren voting for the Fascist R's.

If the Fascist neo-Nazis start calling their enemies "fascist", one can hardly blame the Communist Jihadists for calling the Fascists "plague rats," if only to distinguish them from the lower-case fascists. We have have to keep the two groups distinct. If the Fascists and the "fascists" unite America may turn to a Fascists-plus-fascists vs centrists mayhem. (A brief mayhem perhaps, as centrists appear to be hugely outnumbered by now.)

Estimates are that on the order of 40% of people with Covid don't know it and/or are asymptomatic.

Amazing. 40% of people that have contracted this virus don’t even know it.
When you put it like that I really do wonder why there are any restrictions at all. A disease so deadly that you have to be tested to know if you have it.

Does Mr. Swizzle just jump, like Pavlov's dog, from one non sequitur salivation to another? Has he already forgotten that Covid-19 is the 3rd highest cause of death in the U.S., behind only heart disease (#1) and all forms of cancer combined (#2); and is well ahead of all accidents combined (#4) and strokes (#5)? Covid-19 has killed 1.2 million in the U.S. and almost 8 million worldwide. (I've multiplied official numbers by 1.4 and, previously, linked to journal articles showing this to be a good multiplier to account for deaths due to unreported Covid-19.)

Didn’t the Nazis portray the Jews as rats?

I can see where things are headed.

Yeah, it's pretty clear. The Communist Nazis (whom Metaphor calls the "fascists" to distinguish them from the "Fascists") are building gas chambers already, starting with the one in the basement of that infamous Virginian pizzeria.

 

[Metaphor]

If the Fascist neo-Nazis start calling their enemies "fascist", one can hardly blame the Communist Jihadists for calling the Fascists "plague rats," if only to distinguish them from the lower-case fascists. We have have to keep the two groups distinct. If the Fascists and the "fascists" unite America may turn to a Fascists-plus-fascists vs centrists mayhem. (A brief mayhem perhaps, as centrists appear to be hugely outnumbered by now.)

I didn't realise I was a neo-Nazi now. I hope they don't discover my Limited Edition West Side Story Blu-Ray when I host the meetings at my house. That might be deeply embarrassing for me.

 

[Metaphor]

What's ridiculous is attempting to have an intelligent discussion with someone who says they support mandates for clean water but oppose mandates for vaccinations.

Yes, how ridiculous of me. If you support any mandate of any kind, it means you must support all mandates.

Tell me, when the government mandated separation of race in public schools, would it have been incoherent to oppose that, whilst still supporting drinking water standards for your community?

 

[Swammerdami]

I didn't realise I was a neo-Nazi now.

You write "fascist brethren ... fascist brethren ... fascist brethren ... " and then whine when I compose a joke about Fascists calling their opponents fascists and vice versa,

Whatever, dude.

 

[Jarhyn]

when the government mandated separation of race...

Tell me, what is being mandated now, and who is opposing that mandate and what are the effects of the mandate?

Because it is not racial segregation that is being mandated here.

Rather, the thing being mandated is that people do things known and proven to prevent the spread of a virus.

There exist, and even in the time of racial segregation in schools, existed substantive arguments that to segregate was fundamentally unethical.

There do not exist, today or at any other time in history, substantive arguments for spreading viruses.

Those opposing these mandates are opposing "scientifically supported measures to stop the virus from killing a bunch of our friends, or even ourselves"

Those opposing school mandates were opposing "political measures proven to restrict access to equal educational opportunities".

Why are you continuing to apologize for those who resist scientifically supported measures to stop the virus from killing a bunch of our friends, or even ourselves?

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Yes, how ridiculous of me. If you support any mandate of any kind, it means you must support all mandates.

Tell me, when the government mandated separation of race in public schools, would it have been incoherent to oppose that, whilst still supporting drinking water standards for your community?

Are you asking yourself that? You are the one that opposes mandates so tell me.