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New "don't say gay" bill in Florida

SigmatheZeta

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2021
Messages
615
Gender
she/her
Basic Beliefs
Generally, I am rooted in both ancient Epicurean and ancient Pyrrhonist sentiments, although I am somewhat sympathetic toward the intentions behind ancient Cynicism.
Dear IIDB,


This is precisely the kind of toxic, repressive legislation that led to the climate of anti-LGBT violence in Russia. This cancer is going to spread, and it is going to get worse. America's right-wing went through a brief period of shying away from direct political attacks against LGBT, but apparently, DeSantis is determined to use a more homophobic and transphobic variant of the strategy that Trump was using, starting in 2009.

Starting in 2009, Trump was using pure political outrageousness to galvanize ultra-right followers, and the Democrats were not willing to take him seriously because it seemed to be beyond belief that a man that was openly racist could ever become influential in mainstream American politics. We had had a black president, and we had fallen into a strange sort of illusion that racism was no longer a real issue in the United States. We had underestimated how readily someone could translate general political disaffection into open and flagrant racism.

Furthermore, LGBT are an even more vulnerable minority than people of color in the United States. We really only represent about 5% of the entire population. One of the grim ironies of our situation is that we are really the most vulnerable during a highly sensitive period of our development. At about 12 years of age, young people tend to attach a sense of significance to whether or not they belong in their societies, and if they lack any clear picture of where and how they fit in, they can become disaffected, depressed, and highly prone to self-injury behavior. This is true for all young people, not just LGBT.

Unfortunately, it's also hardest to convince parents that it is okay to discuss LGBT issues with people in that age-group. It is commonplace for people to conflate "sexual orientation" with "sexual behavior," which are really related but not identical subjects. For an example, parents really have no hesitation to talk to children about typical gender roles with straight, cis-gender children, even to the point of exaggerating the significance of those roles (which can be problematic even for straight, cis-gender children). An example of how it is possible to talk with even very young children about LGBT issues is to point out how some families can even have two fathers. From there, a story could introduce them to two other gay men that never adopted children, but instead, they like to sell exotic squashes at a local farmers market on the weekends. There does not need to be explicit mention of sex just to acknowledge that a sexuality exists.

Such a "don't say gay" bill effectively forces teachers to teach children an incorrect picture of the adult world. If the teachers followed such an instruction, they would be teaching children that the only types of adults that existed were heterosexual and cis-gender adults. To a gay kid, this is toxic and dangerous. This kind of narrative tells them that the adult version themselves is not welcome. They are already being excluded from society by the adults in their lives. To the question, "where am I in this story?" the answer could be, "dead," "unwelcome," or "somewhere far away." By excluding any mention of their existence from a story, teachers are already driving them into social exile, and this sense is also not lost on other children their own age.

Dangerously, many parents have the misguided belief that homosexuality and transgenderism could not exist if it were not taught, so, from their point-of-view, teaching children a "straights only" version of adult life can lead to the fulfillment of that picture of the world. They think that, by shielding children from knowing that gay people exist, they can make sure that no children at all ever grow up to be gay. The only sense in which this could ever really be true, though, is if LGBT kids are driven either to kill themselves during their youth or find somewhere else to live where they do not feel so unsafe or stay permanently closeted, which leads to them living deeply dysfunctional lives.

I need to ask all Americans to please recognize how harmful this bill could be to young people that just might be members of their own families. We are in a dangerous time, right now. Right-wing movements are easily galvanized under current political conditions, and they tend to spread like a seething wildfire. We must not be as complacent about this one as we were about the swell of racism that started in 2009.

Thank you,
Sigma
 
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Seriously what the fuck?

Ignoring and silencing discussion around the formation of identity is sick.

It strikes me that a certain subset of parents have a long and storied record of trying to suppress divergence through suppressing the expressions of it.

It is child abuse, however, to make such attempts to shoehorn your child into being "basic". What's even the point? Having a more boring world to live in where your child is not known nor accomplished of anything least of all being themselves? Having an easier time raising them as if that was ever something you were entitled to? Getting grandchildren, again as if that was ever something anyone is entitled to?
 
When adults want to talk about sex with kids without their parents’ knowledge we call them groomers.
 
<an overgeneralization>
It is not without their knowledge, merely without their consent.

Parents have exactly zero right to tell their kids what is and is not normal/acceptable behavior as regards sex, sexuality, and beyond "it must be with consent, and within the acceptable "visibility level" as regards behavior in general.

Educators have an obligation to offer insight as relates the immediate needs and conflicts as experienced by the people in their institution.

Generally this means answering questions about sex, especially when abusive parents withhold such knowledge.

As stands, nobody is proposing anyone grooming children to have sex with adults, though it is interesting that is where Trausti's mind immediately leaps when thinking about discussing sex with children
 
<an overgeneralization>
It is not without their knowledge, merely without their consent.

Parents have exactly zero right to tell their kids what is and is not normal/acceptable behavior as regards sex, sexuality, and beyond "it must be with consent, and within the acceptable "visibility level" as regards behavior in general.

Educators have an obligation to offer insight as relates the immediate needs and conflicts as experienced by the people in their institution.

Generally this means answering questions about sex, especially when abusive parents withhold such knowledge.

As stands, nobody is proposing anyone grooming children to have sex with adults, though it is interesting that is where Trausti's mind immediately leaps when thinking about discussing sex with children

Why are you so obsessed with a child’s sexuality?
 
<an overgeneralization>
It is not without their knowledge, merely without their consent.

Parents have exactly zero right to tell their kids what is and is not normal/acceptable behavior as regards sex, sexuality, and beyond "it must be with consent, and within the acceptable "visibility level" as regards behavior in general.

Educators have an obligation to offer insight as relates the immediate needs and conflicts as experienced by the people in their institution.

Generally this means answering questions about sex, especially when abusive parents withhold such knowledge.

As stands, nobody is proposing anyone grooming children to have sex with adults, though it is interesting that is where Trausti's mind immediately leaps when thinking about discussing sex with children

Why are you so obsessed with a child’s sexuality?
This used to be trolling, but now it seems to actually be their "argument".
When adults want to talk about sex with kids without their parents’ knowledge we call them groomers.
Can't stuff more fallacies into a sentence, as far as I'm aware.
 
When adults want to talk about sex with kids without their parents’ knowledge we call them groomers.
No we don't.
When educators teach the curriculum we call them teachers.

The damage done to young people by ignorance about sex is huge. Not just the queer kids, all of them. And frankly, parents are generally less qualified to teach sex than math or language skills. That's why we have professional teachers.
Tom
 
<an overgeneralization>
It is not without their knowledge, merely without their consent.

Parents have exactly zero right to tell their kids what is and is not normal/acceptable behavior as regards sex, sexuality, and beyond "it must be with consent, and within the acceptable "visibility level" as regards behavior in general.

Educators have an obligation to offer insight as relates the immediate needs and conflicts as experienced by the people in their institution.

Generally this means answering questions about sex, especially when abusive parents withhold such knowledge.

As stands, nobody is proposing anyone grooming children to have sex with adults, though it is interesting that is where Trausti's mind immediately leaps when thinking about discussing sex with children

Why are you so obsessed with a child’s sexuality?
This used to be trolling, but now it seems to actually be their "argument".

So you also want private access to talk sexuality with kids?
 
So you also want private access
It's public access. In a public school. In a public classroom. With public oversight to prevent anything approaching what is apparently very big on Trausti's mind. There's nothing private about it.
 
When adults want to talk about sex with kids without their parents’ knowledge we call them groomers.
No we don't.
When educators teach the curriculum we call them teachers.

The damage done to young people by ignorance about sex is huge. Not just the queer kids, all of them. And frankly, parents are generally less qualified to teach sex than math or language skills. That's why we have professional teachers.
Tom

Teachers shouldn’t be interested in a student’s sexuality. If they are, they shouldn’t be a teacher.
 
Compulsory education should not be a stalking ground for groomers.



I've been involved with more queer support groups than I can count. I've been facilitator of a couple. They range from HIV support groups to PFLAG(Parents and Friends of Lesbians And Gays) and many in between.
I can't tell you how many horror stories started out with "My parents are conservative Christians..."
The damage done by well meaning, but ignorant and ideological, parents and communities is gigantic.
Tom
 
Compulsory education should not be a stalking ground for groomers.



I've been involved with more queer support groups than I can count. I've been facilitator of a couple. They range from HIV support groups to PFLAG(Parents and Friends of Lesbians And Gays) and many in between.
I can't tell you how many horror stories started out with "My parents are conservative Christians..."
The damage done by well meaning, but ignorant and ideological, parents and communities is gigantic.
Tom


Parents send their children to school for an education, not for the teacher push to a sexual agenda. That’s not the role of teachers.
 

I've been involved with more queer support groups than I can count. I've been facilitator of a couple. They range from HIV support groups to PFLAG(Parents and Friends of Lesbians And Gays) and many in between.
I can't tell you how many horror stories started out with "My parents are conservative Christians..."
The damage done by well meaning, but ignorant and ideological, parents and communities is gigantic.
Tom

Parents send their children to school for an education, not for the teacher push to a sexual agenda. That’s not the role of teachers.
I've got great news for you...
 
When adults want to talk about sex with kids without their parents’ knowledge we call them groomers.
No we don't.
When educators teach the curriculum we call them teachers.

The damage done to young people by ignorance about sex is huge. Not just the queer kids, all of them. And frankly, parents are generally less qualified to teach sex than math or language skills. That's why we have professional teachers.
Tom

Teachers shouldn’t be interested in a student’s sexuality. If they are, they shouldn’t be a teacher.
Personally interested is possibly a problem. But a teacher interested in a child and their wellbeing is a good thing.

And bizarre anecdotes from social media designed for shock value don't influence my opinion much. I could easily find one about a kid who's not gay forced to sell his ass to strange men because his Christian parents kicked him out at 17.
Tom
 
When adults want to talk about sex with kids without their parents’ knowledge we call them groomers.
This is a monumentally stupid comment.

A. You can talk about a family with 2 dads without talking about sex.
B. You can talk about homoseulaity without talking abut sex.
C. Sexuality education is important, and it is not grooming.

And I know you are smmart enough to know the difference. You’re trying to derail with some outrageous falsehood. That emotional manufactured outrage that some people peddle, ad nauseum.
 
Parents send their children to school for an education, not for the teacher push to a sexual agenda. That’s not the role of teachers.

I agree.
Got more to back this up as a trend than a freakish TikTok?
Tom
 
B. You can talk about homoseulaity without talking abut sex.

I wish I could find a link to something I saw on the internet a few years ago. But I'm quite internet stupid, so I'll paraphrase.

Father describes being ambushed by his 6y/o son concerning homosexuality. Early in the morning, before Dad has even had a cup of coffee.

(Son) Dad, how come we never see Uncle Bob without his friend Joe?
(Dad) Well, son. You know that mommy and I love each other very much. Right?
(Son) Yeah.
(Dad) So, that's why we want to live together and do stuff together all the time, right?
(Son) Yeah.
(Dad) Well Uncle Bob and Joe love each other very much, too. So they live together and do stuff together.
(Son) Oh. Okay.

Can I have another biscuit?
(Dad) Sure.

Dad goes on to explain how having explained homosexuality to his son was easy. And nobody needed therapy afterwards.
Tom
 
Ignoring and silencing discussion around the formation of identity is sick
FIFY
When “cancel culture” became a right wing rallying cry for the sheeples, it was easy to anticipate that a massive set of cultural cancellations was in the GQP works.

The trumpian practice of accusing your opposition of the very crimes you’re about to commit, has proven so successful for Cheato that his sycophants have now totally embraced it.
 
B. You can talk about homoseulaity without talking abut sex.

I wish I could find a link to something I saw on the internet a few years ago. But I'm quite internet stupid, so I'll paraphrase.

Father describes being ambushed by his 6y/o son concerning homosexuality. Early in the morning, before Dad has even had a cup of coffee.

(Son) Dad, how come we never see Uncle Bob without his friend Joe?
(Dad) Well, son. You know that mommy and I love each other very much. Right?
(Son) Yeah.
(Dad) So, that's why we want to live together and do stuff together all the time, right?
(Son) Yeah.
(Dad) Well Uncle Bob and Joe love each other very much, too. So they live together and do stuff together.
(Son) Oh. Okay.

Can I have another biscuit?
(Dad) Sure.

Dad goes on to explain how having explained homosexuality to his son was easy. And nobody needed therapy afterwards.
Tom
(Son) Dad, how come we never see Uncle Bob without his friend Joe?
(Dad) Well, son. They are sodomites.
(Son) What is a sodomite?
(Dad) People from Sodom I suppose.
(Son) Where is Sodom?
(Dad) I think the Book of Genesis.
(Son) Oh. Okay.

See... works perfectly fine.
 
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