Snowflakes in action: the actual reality of "snowflakes" in the world and the consequences

[Trausti]

then clearly the reason there are more murders is due to the police not doing their jobs.

That, and local lefty DA's that refuse to prosecute. Blame the police sure, but that's just the stereotypical lefty ignoring that there are consequences to building their great utopia.

 

[fromderinside]

I think words matter and for me, calling it 'privilege' is something of a misnomer because to me, justice isn't privilege. It should be the normal state for everyone.

Yes, exactly.

Advantage is a word that I think is more accurately descriptive.

That's no better. "Advantage" implies that injustice against black people benefits white people. It doesn't. People of all races are better off when injustices are not being inflicted on anyone.

Disagree. Any time anyone does to another the other suffers. It's thickest when and where applied.

 

[Angra Mainyu]

Unsurprisingly, you have no clue what I think about conservatives. Most of my family and in-laws are conservative. Some conservatives are thoughtful, considerate and generous people. Others are not. Some are villains, some are misguided, some are right about some matters and wrong about others (like most people of all ideological stripes).

I do have a clue what you tend to think of right-wingers, and a lot more than a clue, because I have your posts, in which you describe what you think about them. Okay, so you know that some conservatives are thoughtful, considerate and generous people. Great! But on the basis of your regular posting here, you still got the vast majority of them wrong (and yes, some are villains; some left-wingers are as well).

I am sorry you cannot parse simple English. Plainly stated, it means for you to adopt your own suggestion and wait a couple of years before posting again in this thread.

I can understand English reasonably well; as you should know, misunderstandings on this boards are ubiquitous, even among native English speakers, and your suggestion was not clear.

That said, my suggestion was not to stop posting now, but to come back in a couple of years regardless of when the ongoing discussion in this thread stops. But if I remember and I'm still posting on this website, I will come back and to see what happened with the predictions that teachers would stop teaching.

Of course it is idiotic. No one remotely familiar with the USA or its history knows it would be idiotic to teach US history without slavery.

Of course that it would be idiotic to do so. But what you called 'idiotic' was not "to teach US history without slavery". Rather, what you called an "idiotic strawman" is the point I was making. Which was not at all a strawman, or an idiotic reply. Remember that our exchange on the matter began when you replied to my reply to Jimmy Higgins. Look at his reply when I asked for an example of what teachers would stop teaching:

Snowflakes in action: the actual reality of "snowflakes" in the world and the consequences

LOL. Mass homicide spike because of murder hornets. Makes as much sense as pinning it on George Floyd's murder. I’m trying to figure out if Trausti is saying that police departments refused to adequately do their jobs if they were going to be scrutinized for the occasional murder of unarmed...

iidb.org

Also, for further context, he was replying to a question I asked Loren Pechtel; later he replied that they would stop teaching whatever a nebulous "the right" doesn't want taught.

The issue is how to approach the issue of slavery. I will use two movies about the pre-Civil War South to provide a simple example. The first is Song_of_the_South which presents slavery as a relatively benign institution, and 12_Years_a_Slave_(film) which does not. Both are hypothetical examples of a presentation of slice of "history" of the slavery in the USA.

I did not watch "Song_of_the_South". I did watch "12 Years a Slave". But iirc, while based on a true story, that was fiction. I would expect that teachers would teach history, rather than movies. Still, let me ask you: are you claiming that teachers today teach history by showing children "12 Years a Slave" or similar movies, and that due to SB148, they'll stop doing so?

 

[Toni]

then clearly the reason there are more murders is due to the police not doing their jobs.

That, and local lefty DA's that refuse to prosecute. Blame the police sure, but that's just the stereotypical lefty ignoring that there are consequences to building their great utopia.

Really? You think that DA’s refuse to bring murder charges because of some political ideology? Laziness?

Increases in crime are directly the result of the pandemic. Ask anyone involved in any part of the legal system, from beat cops to county cops to prosecutors, defense attorneys, legal aid workers—there has been a dramatic uptick in domestic abuse cases during the pandemic, as people are more stressed by economic hardship, realistic fears of serious illness and worse, long months of severely restricted social freedoms leading to people staying home with no where to go to blow off steam—all of it has lead to an increase in domestic violence. Difficult economic times have lead to greater income and housing instability —which increases crime—property crime but also assaults, and murders.

 

[Trausti]

Increases in crime are directly the result of the pandemic.

Which crimes? And why haven't the other countries of the world experienced this increase? Was there no pandemic in South Korea? Or New Zealand? Or Italy? Or Argentina?

 

[Hermit]

Dude, how many people do you think get a sizable inheritance, if any at all? And how many people are able to keep that wealth without frittering it away before the next generation? Put it to bed, man.

When did I ever mention inheritance, man? Quote what I wrote, then try to refute what I wrote, thanks. Freestyle interpretations of what you think I meant with what I wrote don't cut the mustard.

 

[Toni]

Increases in crime are directly the result of the pandemic.

Which crimes? And why haven't the other countries of the world experienced this increase? Was there no pandemic in South Korea? Or New Zealand? Or Italy? Or Argentina?

I’ve described crimes which increased during the pandemic.

Which countries did a better job of containing the pandemic? Which countries have done a better job of providing the social network needed: money, food, stable housing, access to healthcare?

 

[ZiprHead]

Also, instead of confusing correlation with causation, explain how the George Floyd tragedy CAUSED the increase in violence all by itself.

When cops pull back from active policing, the criminals are gonna do what they do. This isn't really hard, dude.

So it's the cops fault.

 

[TomC]

Also, instead of confusing correlation with causation, explain how the George Floyd tragedy CAUSED the increase in violence all by itself.

When cops pull back from active policing, the criminals are gonna do what they do. This isn't really hard, dude.

I gotta agree with Trausti here.

I think episodes like Floyd's death are used to ramp up the already toxic levels of victimhood and entitlement. That's not going to end well. From YBM to the police to all their various supporters across the spectrum, it's just going to get worse.

And, frankly, since YBM are both the most likely to commit or be the victims of violent crime I expect an uptick in their violent deaths.
Tom

 

[TomC]

You are not making any sense. You are claiming that the police are not doing their jobs and that induces more murders. That is simply confusing correlation with causation.

Nothing to do with confusing correlation and causation. It's about recognizing human nature. Also, the "law of unintended consequences". I'm confident that one of the consequences of BLM will be dumber and more authoritarian cops.

My reasoning goes like this.
The police as a group are the people who applied for and stayed with the police department. Of these three groups:
A) authoritarian asshat who's gun is a penis extension

B) thoughtful public servant

C) jackass who has a job with the PD and isn't smart enough to retrain

which do you think the social climate is more likely to attract and retain in police work? I'm not asking what should happen, I'm asking what do you think will happen?
Tom

 

[laughing dog]

You are not making any sense. You are claiming that the police are not doing their jobs and that induces more murders. That is simply confusing correlation with causation.

Nothing to do with confusing correlation and causation. It's about recognizing human nature. Also, the "law of unintended consequences". I'm confident that one of the consequences of BLM will be dumber and more authoritarian cops.

My reasoning goes like this.
The police as a group are the people who applied for and stayed with the police department. Of these three groups:
A) authoritarian asshat who's gun is a penis extension

B) thoughtful public servant

C) jackass who has a job with the PD and isn't smart enough to retrain

which do you think the social climate is more likely to attract and retain in police work? I'm not asking what should happen, I'm asking what do you think will happen?
Tom

What will happen depends on the community's reaction. If it does not insist on different standards and expectations of its police in their selection and training, then more of the same. If they do, then they will be change.

 

[Elixir]

If it does not insist on different standards and expectations of its police in their selection and training, then more of the same. If they do, then they will be change.

SURELY you're not talking about re-allocating fiscal resources to bring police performance into line with what the public hired them to do?
That's like DEFUNDING THE POL:ICE!
And if you de-fund the police, the right wing will use it to bludgeon you into submission. They'll win all the elections, then hire a bunch of nazi thugs to replace the nazi thugs you de-funded, and tell them to go enforce 'Murkin freedumz by beating and killing BLMAntifuzz.
You don't want THAT to happen, do you?

 

[Jarhyn]

If it does not insist on different standards and expectations of its police in their selection and training, then more of the same. If they do, then they will be change.

SURELY you're not talking about re-allocating fiscal resources to bring police performance into line with what the public hired them to do?
That's like DEFUNDING THE POL:ICE!
And if you de-fund the police, the right wing will use it to bludgeon you into submission. They'll win all the elections, then hire a bunch of nazi thugs to replace the nazi thugs you de-funded, and tell them to go enforce 'Murkin freedumz by beating and killing BLMAntifuzz.
You don't want THAT to happen again, do you?

FTFY.

 

[Toni]

Also, instead of confusing correlation with causation, explain how the George Floyd tragedy CAUSED the increase in violence all by itself.

When cops pull back from active policing, the criminals are gonna do what they do. This isn't really hard, dude.

I gotta agree with Trausti here.

I think episodes like Floyd's death are used to ramp up the already toxic levels of victimhood and entitlement. That's not going to end well. From YBM to the police to all their various supporters across the spectrum, it's just going to get worse.

And, frankly, since YBM are both the most likely to commit or be the victims of violent crime I expect an uptick in their violent deaths.
Tom

So what you're saying is that young black men (Floyd wasn't that young) cannot expect police officers to follow their training or to not suffocate them to death by kneeling on their necks and backs, even if there is a crowd around them begging for their lives?

That does sound like black people might be taking things too far. Almost like they think they are fully human, same as white people. What entitlement!

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Also, instead of confusing correlation with causation, explain how the George Floyd tragedy CAUSED the increase in violence all by itself.

When cops pull back from active policing, the criminals are gonna do what they do. This isn't really hard, dude.

I gotta agree with Trausti here.

I think episodes like Floyd's death are used to ramp up the already toxic levels of victimhood and entitlement.

You bring up a very good point. The officer involved in the death of Floyd had 18 complaints filed against him regarding treatment of civilians. And nothing seemed to have been done about it, and then this same person (18 complaints) killed a person via asphyxiating the victim (who was suspected of trying to pass a fake $20 bill).

The fact blacks are upset that no one listened to them complaining about this specific officer until he killed someone, who was committing at worst a stupid non-violent crime, is the utmost of uppity entitlement. Especially considering nothing probably happens to the officers if this death wasn't captured on video.

That's not going to end well. From YBM to the police to all their various supporters across the spectrum, it's just going to get worse.

Not for Floyd, he is already dead, due to the officer who was responsible for his death.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

You are not making any sense. You are claiming that the police are not doing their jobs and that induces more murders. That is simply confusing correlation with causation.

Nothing to do with confusing correlation and causation. It's about recognizing human nature. Also, the "law of unintended consequences". I'm confident that one of the consequences of BLM will be dumber and more authoritarian cops.

My reasoning goes like this.
The police as a group are the people who applied for and stayed with the police department. Of these three groups:
A) authoritarian asshat who's gun is a penis extension

B) thoughtful public servant

C) jackass who has a job with the PD and isn't smart enough to retrain

which do you think the social climate is more likely to attract and retain in police work? I'm not asking what should happen, I'm asking what do you think will happen?
Tom

I'm asking why in the heck was the guy with 18 complaints filed against him was one of the officers used to help field train new officers? That is a systemic failure in that Police Department.

 

[Trausti]

This is CRT.

 

[ZiprHead]

No, it's not.

 

[laughing dog]

If it does not insist on different standards and expectations of its police in their selection and training, then more of the same. If they do, then they will be change.

SURELY you're not talking about re-allocating fiscal resources to bring police performance into line with what the public hired them to do?
That's like DEFUNDING THE POL:ICE!
And if you de-fund the police, the right wing will use it to bludgeon you into submission. They'll win all the elections, then hire a bunch of nazi thugs to replace the nazi thugs you de-funded, and tell them to go enforce 'Murkin freedumz by beating and killing BLMAntifuzz.
You don't want THAT to happen, do you?

I think it will take more resources to bring police performance into the line that at least some of the public expects them to do. I have no problem with that.

 

[Elixir]

If it does not insist on different standards and expectations of its police in their selection and training, then more of the same. If they do, then they will be change.

SURELY you're not talking about re-allocating fiscal resources to bring police performance into line with what the public hired them to do?
That's like DEFUNDING THE POL:ICE!
And if you de-fund the police, the right wing will use it to bludgeon you into submission. They'll win all the elections, then hire a bunch of nazi thugs to replace the nazi thugs you de-funded, and tell them to go enforce 'Murkin freedumz by beating and killing BLMAntifuzz.
You don't want THAT to happen, do you?

I think it will take more resources to bring police performance into the line that at least some of the public expects them to do. I have no problem with that.

I am SO with you. I think I have expressed in the past that police pay has to go up at least 3x, training costs up at least that much, and it should be one of the most sought after, highest prestige jobs in the country. But...
There are over 18,000 police departments in the US and they all have their problems. AFAICS, not one of them has the combination of resources and will to effect the changes that would be needed to have "really good" policing. It's a shit job that attracts a lot of shit people.