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Police response to N.J. mall fight sparks outrage after Black teen cuffed as white teen watches

Why would anyone deny that this treatment wasn't due to the prejudice of the police, who perceived the young Black boy as a greater threat than the young whitesh boy, who by the way doesn't even consider himself white.

I haven't read every single post, so I apologize if somebody else has already mentioned this, but I looked for some information that would help me have a greater understanding of what was going on.

https://www.nj.com/somerset/2022/02...re-racist-to-cuff-black-teen-but-not-him.html

The way Joseph tells it, he was trying to prevent a fight from happening last Saturday at the Bridgewater Commons mall.


Instead, he ended up in a brawl that was caught on video and then went viral because it showed two Bridgewater police officers handcuffing only the other teen in the fight, who is Black.


Joseph, 15, is Colombian and Pakistani and says he’s “not white.” He has been referred to on social media and in some news reports as “white” because he has light colored skin. The high school sophomore said once he saw cops put the other teen, Kye, into handcuffs, he offered himself up to be detained, too.

Each officer grabbed a teen. The male officer took the Kye to the ground while the female officer sat Joseph on a couch before she assisted the other officer. Video shows Joseph offering his wrists to the officers to cuff. But he said they never did.


“I knew that was really bad,” Joseph said of the way officers handled the other teen. “I even offered to get handcuffed, I offered to get detained after Kye was detained, and they turned my offer down. I even asked they why they detained Kye and not me, and they said because Kye was resisting.”


The incident garnered responses from Gov. Phil Murphy, who said he was “deeply disturbed by what appears to be racially disparate treatment,” and acting state Attorney General Matthew Platkin, who reminded police about a directive banning “racially-influenced policing in New Jersey.


The police officers’ conduct is under investigation by the Somerset County Prosecutor’s Office.


The NAACP-NJ State Conference called on the department to remove the two officers involved in the incident pending the investigation.


Joseph said he hasn’t spoken with Kye since the fight. He also said he’s bothered by being labeled as a bully by Simms and Ben Crump, a civil rights attorney that Kye’s family has retained.


Since the fight, Joseph said, he’s been receiving ugly messages from people on social media. He’s been called a “racist white teen,” among other things, he said.


“Basically, people saying, ‘I know who you are, you better watch your back.’ There was one saying I should just kill myself,” Joseph said.


Both teens were banned from the mall for three years. Joseph had a job at the AMC movie theater in the mall, but said he now can’t work because of the ban. He believes the ban length was excessive for both he and Kye.


“Everyone goes to the mall, so I can’t hang out with a lot of people anymore,” he said.

So, even the white looking kid realizes that what the cops did was racist. And now, some assholes are threatening the white looking kid. What the fuck Is wrong with people? JFC! These are two young kids who had a misunderstanding, that led to a scuffle. If the police had acted more rationally and simply pulled them apart, sat them down and spoke to them, that would have been the end of it! Why do the police assume that a teen with darker skin is a threat, other than that they hold bias against young Black males! And, what, if anything can be done to change the bias in the system? Would more training help, or are some police simply hopeless.
My best guess is that if both officers had behaved as the female officer did: sitting a boy down on a bench---and then had talked with the boys, we would not be reading about this. Their parents could and should have been called, mostly to ensure that there was no continuation of the scuffle after the police left but both seemed like pretty good kids who would have been sufficiently shaken by having the police show up to cool down.
 
What I see in the video is a male cop way overreacting

Why do you think he way overreacted and how is it that he happened to choose the black kid to way overreact on when the black kid was on the ground when he made first eye contact of the scene. You'd think an officer would see one person above the other as more of a threat at the scene. But he just tossed the white kid to the side and leaped on the black kid.

Edit: And he didn't need any fucking assistance to cuff the black kid because the black kid wasn't resisting. Yet both of these officers were stupid enough to do the whole knee trick on camera again like America needs more of that shit.
I cannot tell for certain if the female officer actually had her knee on Husain's neck or if was merely kneeling right next to him.

But you're right. Surely we've all seen what can happen when someone is pinned down with a knee on their neck. No more.
 
Another day, another "white people are bad, m-kay" thread by ZiprHead. *yawn*
It is getting out of hand and is cluttering up the forum, IMHO. I think we shoud create a "white People Misconduct Catch All Thread" (similar to the Police Misconduct Catch All " thread) to consolidate all these random stories in one place.
.. cause occupation and race are totally the same thing?
 
Another day, another "white people are bad, m-kay" thread by ZiprHead. *yawn*
It is getting out of hand and is cluttering up the forum, IMHO. I think we shoud create a "white People Misconduct Catch All Thread" (similar to the Police Misconduct Catch All " thread) to consolidate all these random stories in one place.
.. cause occupation and race are totally the same thing?
Certainly gives "identity politics" a new meaning.
 
What was the white boy saying to the cops when they arrived?
What was the black boy saying to the cops when they arrived?

Was one of them saying "i'm good... OK.. settling down now"?
Was on of them saying "I'm gonna kill that motherfucker... get your fucking hands off me or I'll fuck you up"?

Would that be a more significant difference between the boys than their race, in terms of how one might react to them?
YA THINK?
 
I watched the video twice. To me, it looked as if the cop certainly treated the Black teen very differently than the White teen was treated.
Nobody is disputing that they were treated differently.
Yesterday, I was treated differently from the lady ahead of me at the grocery checkout.

I had a ton of stuff. She had two things. I let her go ahead in line. Then she spent awhile finding her debit card. She started looking for it after the checkout clerk said that'll be $12.17 or something. I had cash in my hand.
People get treated differently all the time.
Just happens.
Tom
ya.. like this one time, a guy approached me and pleasantly asked me where Edmonds street was... so, I like told him which direction to go and what he will see when he gets there.. and he was all appreciative and stuff...
And then there was this other time some teenager on a skateboard was skating on the sidewalk and he ran into my wife and I was all like, "hey watch it!" and he responded with an insult.. so I chased him for about 100 feet and knocked the little piece of shit off his skateboard pretty hard into a signpost.
Ya, people get treated differently all the time.
 
Another day, another "white people are bad, m-kay" thread by ZiprHead. *yawn*
It is getting out of hand and is cluttering up the forum, IMHO. I think we shoud create a "white People Misconduct Catch All Thread" (similar to the Police Misconduct Catch All " thread) to consolidate all these random stories in one place.
.. cause occupation and race are totally the same thing?
I was not implying occupation and race are the same thing, and I think you know that, but are playing dumb for some reason. I meant establishing a single thread to share random stories about bad white people. Like the thread we have with bad cops. Its not that hard to figure out.
 
He's there next to her with his wrists out to be cuffed. No one in their right mind would think she is considering risk of injury to herself or the teen at that point. Likewise, even after the Black teen is cuffed and the male officer is free to assist or detain the other, neither she implicitly accepts such assistance to cuff the teen nor the male officer initiates cuffing the other teen.
This. The "white" teen was clearly not a threat, there was no reason to do more.
The black teen was obviously not a threat, either.

I will mention that the white teen did NOT remain seated but got up and moved towards the two officers and the teen on the floor. I cannot help but think that if the white teen had been black and had gotten up from where he had been sat down and moved towards the officers, we would be having an entirely different kind of thread and responses. I wonder if either teen would still be alive.
I don't think we have enough to judge how the black teen would have reacted if not cuffed.

Regardless of skin color or other attributes, a rational person would first react in surprise, then assess the situation. Even for any criminally-minded person, they would not flee unless on drugs or with a warrant out because of cost benefit--far too risky to flee police with guns next to you. But we know this kid was not on drugs or a hardened criminal with warrants or we would have heard. So, he's not going to flee or attack the cops. I expect therefore after initial surprise where he may shake or move out of the way quickly or stand up that as he becomes aware of surroundings, he'd stop and wait for a response from police.
 
What article are you reading that doesn't?
I read the CNN article in the OP which does not say what happened to the two boys after the events in the video. Indeed it says "It is unclear from the video how the incident escalated between the boys or what happened after the Black teenager was handcuffed." I also read other articles. I think I remember something about an article that says they both stayed there for 30 minutes, but I don't remember where I read that.

An article from thehill quotes Franco:
“I don’t understand why they arrested him and not me,” said Joseph, who had been described as white on social media and in some news reports. “I say that was just plain old racist. I don’t condone that at all. Like I said, I even offered to get arrested.”

“I knew that was really bad,” Joseph added. “I offered to get detained after Kye was detained, and they turned my offer down. I even asked they why they detained Kye and not me, and they said because Kye was resisting.”
I take that as Franco not understanding the difference between being arrested and being detained (nobody was arrested, I believe) and both Franco and Husain were detained (Husain in cuffs). It's possible that Franco believes he was not detained because he was not cuffed, but I believe the video shows the female cop acting in a way consistent with her telling him to 'stay there' (on the couch).

Was Husain kept at the mall longer than Franco?
 
Another day, another "white people are bad, m-kay" thread by ZiprHead. *yawn*
It is getting out of hand and is cluttering up the forum, IMHO. I think we shoud create a "white People Misconduct Catch All Thread" (similar to the Police Misconduct Catch All " thread) to consolidate all these random stories in one place.
.. cause occupation and race are totally the same thing?
I was not implying occupation and race are the same thing, and I think you know that, but are playing dumb for some reason. I meant establishing a single thread to share random stories about bad white people. Like the thread we have with bad cops. Its not that hard to figure out.
well no, not exactly the same thing.. but like on the same level of appropriateness to generalize... it's one thing to say "all cops be like..." and quite another to say "all white people be like..."
 
What was the white boy saying to the cops when they arrived?
What was the black boy saying to the cops when they arrived?

Was one of them saying "i'm good... OK.. settling down now"?
Was on of them saying "I'm gonna kill that motherfucker... get your fucking hands off me or I'll fuck you up"?

Would that be a more significant difference between the boys than their race, in terms of how one might react to them?
YA THINK?
Why make up imaginary events when you can look at the video and see that the black kid was just laying there silent?
 
What article are you reading that doesn't?
I read the CNN article in the OP which does not say what happened to the two boys after the events in the video. Indeed it says "It is unclear from the video how the incident escalated between the boys or what happened after the Black teenager was handcuffed." I also read other articles. I think I remember something about an article that says they both stayed there for 30 minutes, but I don't remember where I read that.

An article from thehill quotes Franco:
“I don’t understand why they arrested him and not me,” said Joseph, who had been described as white on social media and in some news reports. “I say that was just plain old racist. I don’t condone that at all. Like I said, I even offered to get arrested.”

“I knew that was really bad,” Joseph added. “I offered to get detained after Kye was detained, and they turned my offer down. I even asked they why they detained Kye and not me, and they said because Kye was resisting.”
I take that as Franco not understanding the difference between being arrested and being detained (nobody was arrested, I believe) and both Franco and Husain were detained (Husain in cuffs). It's possible that Franco believes he was not detained because he was not cuffed, but I believe the video shows the female cop acting in a way consistent with her telling him to 'stay there' (on the couch).

Was Husain kept at the mall longer than Franco?
So Franko saying "I even asked why detained Kye and not me" is no indication....................................................
 
So Franko saying "I even asked why detained Kye and not me" is no indication....................................................
As I explained, no. Franco appears to conflate arrest and detention, and he appears to believe he was not detained because he was not cuffed.

I can't find anything saying Husain was kept afterwards by the police longer than Franco was. Can you? If you have such an article, can you link it please?
 
As I explained, no. Franco appears to conflate arrest and detention, and he appears to believe he was not detained because he was not cuffed.

Oh my, he conflated arrest and detention either of which the black kid got and he didn't per his witness statement.

Edit: But you are correct that there aren't any articles or information about who was kept and for how long. It will come out though. If it does come out that the black teen was held and his parents had to pick him up while the "white kid" wasn't held at all and was able to leave it wouldn't make a difference to you. You'll probably say something like "well it was the black kid's age". At least that's what I predict.
 
It is not totally irrelevant. First, I don't know how what happened to the black boy counts as an 'arrest'.
An arrest happens when the police takes someone into custody. In practice, the courts consider an arrest to have happened when the police limit or restrain the free movement of the suspect, either with verbal commands, and/or though the use of physical restraints like handcuffs. Any detention by a police officer where the suspect is not free to leave is technically an arrest, irrespective of whether the suspect is charged with committing crimes resulting from that arrest.

The black kid was arrested the moment he was forced to the ground and restrained with cuffs.
 
It is not totally irrelevant. First, I don't know how what happened to the black boy counts as an 'arrest'.
An arrest happens when the police takes someone into custody. In practice, the courts consider an arrest to have happened when the police limit or restrain the free movement of the suspect, either with verbal commands, and/or though the use of physical restraints like handcuffs. Any detention by a police officer where the suspect is not free to leave is technically an arrest, irrespective of whether the suspect is charged with committing crimes resulting from that arrest.

The black kid was arrested the moment he was forced to the ground and restrained with cuffs.
That is a clear and non-pedantic explanation of a term almost everyone in the US intuitively understands. Thank you.

Moreover, whether or not the black child's detention meets the pedant's or the obtuse's view of arrest is not really germane, because the issue is that the one child experienced the "arrest" and the other did not. I suspect you understand that, but for some reason, the alleged ambiguity of what an "arrest" means is a major sticking point for some.
 
It is not totally irrelevant. First, I don't know how what happened to the black boy counts as an 'arrest'.
An arrest happens when the police takes someone into custody. In practice, the courts consider an arrest to have happened when the police limit or restrain the free movement of the suspect, either with verbal commands, and/or though the use of physical restraints like handcuffs. Any detention by a police officer where the suspect is not free to leave is technically an arrest, irrespective of whether the suspect is charged with committing crimes resulting from that arrest.

The black kid was arrested the moment he was forced to the ground and restrained with cuffs.
That is a clear and non-pedantic explanation of a term almost everyone in the US intuitively understands. Thank you.

Moreover, whether or not the black child's detention meets the pedant's or the obtuse's view of arrest is not really germane, because the issue is that the one child experienced the "arrest" and the other did not. I suspect you understand that, but for some reason, the alleged ambiguity of what an "arrest" means is a major sticking point for some.
The white kid may also have been temporarily arrested at some point as he was physically moved by the officer to a different location, and apparently instructed to sit there, but that is not important. What is important is that the level of force used against the black kid was much higher than that used against the white kid, even though there appears to be no evidence that the black kid posed a much higher risk to the safety of the people present at the scene, as compared to the white kid. While there may be other contributing factors, the racial biases of the officers appears to the primary reason why the black kid was treated so very differently than the white kid, and it is reasonable to assume as much until the matter is fully investigated.
 
An arrest happens when the police takes someone into custody. In practice, the courts consider an arrest to have happened when the police limit or restrain the free movement of the suspect, either with verbal commands, and/or though the use of physical restraints like handcuffs. Any detention by a police officer where the suspect is not free to leave is technically an arrest, irrespective of whether the suspect is charged with committing crimes resulting from that arrest.
That's vague and pedantic*.

I know the difference between being arrested and being detained. I'm not inclined to explain how I know this, but believe me I do. I've not always been the choir boy I look like on IIDB, the prudish mod.
Tom


*@Laughingdog
 

It is not totally irrelevant. First, I don't know how what happened to the black boy counts as an 'arrest'.
An arrest happens when the police takes someone into custody. In practice, the courts consider an arrest to have happened when the police limit or restrain the free movement of the suspect, either with verbal commands, and/or though the use of physical restraints like handcuffs. Any detention by a police officer where the suspect is not free to leave is technically an arrest, irrespective of whether the suspect is charged with committing crimes resulting from that arrest.

The black kid was arrested the moment he was forced to the ground and restrained with cuffs.
That is a clear and non-pedantic explanation of a term almost everyone in the US intuitively understands. Thank you.

Moreover, whether or not the black child's detention meets the pedant's or the obtuse's view of arrest is not really germane, because the issue is that the one child experienced the "arrest" and the other did not. I suspect you understand that, but for some reason, the alleged ambiguity of what an "arrest" means is a major sticking point for some.
The white kid may also have been temporarily arrested at some point as he was physically moved by the officer to a different location, and apparently instructed to sit there, but that is not important. What is important is that the level of force used against the black kid was much higher than that used against the white kid, even though there appears to be no evidence that the black kid posed a much higher risk to the safety of the people present at the scene, as compared to the white kid. While there may be other contributing factors, the racial biases of the officers appears to the primary reason why the black kid was treated so very differently than the white kid, and it is reasonable to assume as much until the matter is fully investigated.
That analysis is extremely cogent that should persuade most rational readers.* I agree that the level of force is important. I focused on the disparate treatment after the violence to avoid the usual bs about male v. female police officers.



*@TomC
 
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An arrest happens when the police takes someone into custody. In practice, the courts consider an arrest to have happened when the police limit or restrain the free movement of the suspect, either with verbal commands, and/or though the use of physical restraints like handcuffs. Any detention by a police officer where the suspect is not free to leave is technically an arrest, irrespective of whether the suspect is charged with committing crimes resulting from that arrest.
That's vague and pedantic*.

I know the difference between being arrested and being detained. I'm not inclined to explain how I know this, but believe me I do. I've not always been the choir boy I look like on IIDB, the prudish mod.
Tom


*@Laughingdog
If I were cuffed by a police officer, I would assume that I was arrested. And so would my attorney.
 
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