How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

[barbos]

And he died over 60 years ago.

Yep, and now "Jew" President names streets after him.

 

[barbos]

Yeah, anti-Semitism and racism in Russia? No way! Be like Canada invading the US because the US plays curling, which must be stamped out.

No, you are not gonna just word-bomb out of it.
Ukraine is not Russia.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Meanwhile, Champions League final is in Paris now. Poland, Sweden, Czech Rep refuse to play Russia in final World Cup qualification spot(s) matches. The World Cup is in 2022ish. Putin has done something no one thought possible, join the world together against it, from Pornhub to UEFA to Canada to China to Anonymous to... well... they've got a friend in Fox News.

 

[crazyfingers]

And he died over 60 years ago.

Yep, and now "Jew" President names streets after him.

Care to provide reliable sourses for this odd statement?

 

[barbos]

And he died over 60 years ago.

Yep, and now "Jew" President names streets after him.

Care to provide reliable sourses for this odd statement?

What do you mean sources? You did not know?
The same way you did not know Democratic Poland colluded with Hitler to grab chunk of Czechoslovakia before WW2? And once you did learn it you quietly stopped bitching about Stalin doing the same with Poland?

 

[Hermit]

No links but saw this reported:

Rep. Clay Higgins tweeted
@RepClayHiggins
You millennial leftists who never lived one day under nuclear threat can now reflect upon your woke sky.
You made quite a non-binary fuss to save the world from intercontinental ballistic tweets.

Dictionary.com replied
@Dictionarycom
Replying to @RepClayHiggins
We’re not entirely sure what this tweet is supposed to mean, and we’re literally the dictionary.

Original at

24K Retweets, 3,037 Quote Tweets and 179.5K Likes as I type.

 

[JohnG]

Seems like white Christian ethno-states are all the rage these days

 

[Jarhyn]

Yeah, anti-Semitism and racism in Russia? No way! Be like Canada invading the US because the US plays curling, which must be stamped out.

No, you are not gonna just word-bomb out of it.
Ukraine is not Russia.

Right. But Russia invading Ukraine because "Nazis and antisemitism" when the Russians were allied with the Nazis until 1941, and the Nazis were running camps as early as '33... Well, I think it's a little pot/kettle.

 

[RVonse]

I'd dare to say "this is different". The EU, China, everyone are acting differently to this invasion. It is as unified as one would expect a multilateral response would be to a substantial natural disaster. That almost never happens. The reaction against Russia is unilateral, swift, and full of condemnation. Because well... it is a completely unjustified military action.

There is no viable excuse for Russia's military movements against Ukraine as a nation. Putin went from incursion of the black from the gray, to flat out 19th century land grab.

We'll see if this can last, but Putin appears to have completely dropped the ball here. I mentioned him playing "good chess" in the to be annexation of more Ukrainian territory, and I think it would have been allowed by enough nations, but with sanctions from others. Instead of playing his usual chess, Putin just lost his mind. I think he was starting to believe he was invincible, like the Neocons in Iraq.

That isn't what I am reading at all. You've been indoctrinated by CNN too long. Maybe it's time to actually read what the Chinese CCP media has to report https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202202/1253364.shtml?id=12

But he also said, "The legitimate security concerns of all countries should be respected. Given NATO's five consecutive rounds of eastward expansion, Russia's legitimate security demands ought to be taken seriously and properly addressed."

China is very neutral right now. They are not on board with anyone but themselves.

 

[Jayjay]

I have no idea how "the west" should respond, because I can't understand what - if anything - Russia figures to gain by this.
My suspicion is that there is little interest in conquering and occupying Ukraine, and the whole charade is a distractive display of nationalism, by which Putin perhaps hopes to elevate his own domestic standing, which has reportedly been suffering of late.

Projecting again? No one in Russia considers it a great idea.

Putin does not need to invade anyone. All he needs is to start North Stream 2 and wait until all contracts with Ukrainian pipelines expire.
Ukraine and US, on the other hand, realize that they need some drastic shit to prevent that.

barbos, this was your first post in the thread from back in December. "No one in Russia considers it a great idea."

yes, situation changed. Ukraine provided drastic shit. Nord Stream 2 stopped.

Ukraine didn't do any "drastic shit" since December, that it hadn' done before. Sure there was shelling back and forth between Ukrainian soldiers and separatists, but that had been going on since the beginning. Nord stream 2 didn't stop until after Russia attacked.

 

[barbos]

On 22 January 2010, the outgoing President of Ukraine Viktor Yushchenko awarded Bandera the posthumous title of Hero of Ukraine.[13] The European Parliament condemned the award,[14] as did Russia,[15] Polish, and Jewish politicians and organizations

 

[barbos]

I have no idea how "the west" should respond, because I can't understand what - if anything - Russia figures to gain by this.
My suspicion is that there is little interest in conquering and occupying Ukraine, and the whole charade is a distractive display of nationalism, by which Putin perhaps hopes to elevate his own domestic standing, which has reportedly been suffering of late.

Projecting again? No one in Russia considers it a great idea.

Putin does not need to invade anyone. All he needs is to start North Stream 2 and wait until all contracts with Ukrainian pipelines expire.
Ukraine and US, on the other hand, realize that they need some drastic shit to prevent that.

barbos, this was your first post in the thread from back in December. "No one in Russia considers it a great idea."

yes, situation changed. Ukraine provided drastic shit. Nord Stream 2 stopped.

Ukraine didn't do any "drastic shit" since December, that it hadn' done before. Sure there was shelling back and forth between Ukrainian soldiers and separatists, but that had been going on since the beginning. Nord stream 2 didn't stop until after Russia attacked.

Actually they did. Russia did not complain too much about it because it was clear that US/West would dismiss it as False Flag (US said so in advance) So they simply denied US that opportunity.
The plan was to provoke Russia into going into East Ukraine and stay there or annex it. That would kill Nord Stream 2 and would give other benefits to Ukraine. That's why Ukrainian government did not believe Russia would invade, they were not lying, they truly believed in their plan. They miscalculated. And now we have this shit. Many thanks to Nuland&Co

 

[barbos]

Yeah, anti-Semitism and racism in Russia? No way! Be like Canada invading the US because the US plays curling, which must be stamped out.

No, you are not gonna just word-bomb out of it.
Ukraine is not Russia.

Right. But Russia invading Ukraine because "Nazis and antisemitism" when the Russians were allied with the Nazis until 1941, and the Nazis were running camps as early as '33... Well, I think it's a little pot/kettle.

Ukraine is allied with Nazi Germany now. You should be tired with all that goal posts moving. Take a break.

And no, Russia never was allied with Nazis.

 

[Copernicus]

Stepan Bandera - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Bandera was an antisemite and Nazi collaborator.[70] Ukrainian nationalism did not historically include antisemitism as a core aspect of its program and saw Russians as well as Poles as the chief enemy with Jews playing a secondary role.[71] Nevertheless, Ukrainian nationalism was not immune to the influence of the antisemitic climate in Eastern and Central Europe,[71] that had already become highly racialized in the late 19th century (indeed Bandera and his followers, similarly to the Nazis, advocated the selective breeding to create a "pure" Ukrainian race)[72] and had developed an elaborate anti-Jewish discourse.[73]

Pogrom is a Russian word. If you want to talk about anti-jewish discourse, it isn't really honest to not talk about all those Pogroms in Russia and pretend Russia doesn't have a problem with anti-Semitism...

Non sequitur king strikes again.
And Yes, Russia and especially USSR never had antisemitism problem, Not if you consider Ukraine independent country

Since barbos had put me on ignore, he missed that I had already posted the Wikipedia article on Bandera and discussed it. As for antisemitism, both Russia and Ukraine have had a tremendous infestation of it for several centuries, starting with Catherine the Great's annexation of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania. The Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth had its share of ethnic and religious tension, but it still promoted religious freedom within its various territories. After assimilation into the Russian Empire, Jews were largely confined to Lithuanian (roughly the origin of Yiddish, which is a Germanic language with a lot of loan words from other regional languages). In fact, the Commonwealth was something of a haven for European Jews who were finding life difficult in more western European countries. The other reason for so many Jews is that the neighboring Khazars had sort of adopted Judaism as their preferred religion for a while, and some argue that they are the historical origin of European Ashkenazi Jews.

I have had Jewish friends in both Russia and Ukraine, and there is still a lot of antisemitism. One of my wife's grandfathers was a Jew from Odesa, who immigrated in the early 20th century. I have taught English to Jewish immigrant refugees who were being allowed to emigrate from the Soviet Union in the 1980s. It has long been difficult to be Jewish in both countries because of the antisemitism problem. President Zelensky is Jewish and has been known to joke about it, much to the dismay of older Jewish citizens in his country. They fear a backlash, but the fact that Ukraine could elect a Jew as president is a measure of their social progress. Zelensky is no Banderan, but he still has to deal with extreme right wing politicians who think of Bandera as a national hero of sorts.

 

[Jayjay]

Harry just asked you “what lies.” Instead of saying, “let’s talk about the lies, here they are,” you post this throwaya nothing post.

The usual propaganda lies - Putin being afraid of democracy.

Based on his actions, that seems quite plausible. He's certainly afraid of democracy in his own country.

Then weird claim that was Putin was vehemently against Ukraine membership in EU, this is just bizarre and patently false claim, coming from CIA guy. Then lies about Georgia, same thing.

Putin said fine go to EU, we just need to renegotiate current trade agreements so that we are not getting EU stuff into Russia without taxes. You know, the trick Belarus is like doing.
The red line for Putin has always been NATO, period, not democracy, not EU.
Russia loves EU.

Belarus is not in the EU and doesn't have any special tariff treaty with them, so how would that work? What's actually happening is that Belarus isn't evading taxes or tariffs, but is circumventing the Russian import restrictions on some EU goods like agricultural products.

The EU association agreement was a real problem for Putin, because his plan was to have Ukraine eventually join the customs union with Russia, Belarus and Kazakhstan (and possible other future states in Russia's sphere of influence). But like you pointed out, a country can't be in multiple customs unions at the same time. Ukraine having a separate customs treaty with the EU (which is what the EU association agreement may have led to eventually) would have closed the door for this plan. That's why Putin ordered his puppet Yanukovich to nix the agreement.

 

[Copernicus]

And he died over 60 years ago.

Yep, and now "Jew" President names streets after him.

Care to provide reliable sourses for this odd statement?

I have read that there are some streets in Kyiv and other cities named after Bandera, because he is popular among some right wing politicians. However, I believe that this happened before Zelensky was elected president. Barbos is spreading misinformation to claim that it is Zelensky who named those streets. Calling Zelensky a "Jew" president is offensive. He is a secular president who happens to be Jewish.

Kyiv’s Moskovsky Avenue renamed after Ukrainian nationalist Bandera

 

[Hermit]

I'd dare to say "this is different". The EU, China, everyone are acting differently to this invasion. It is as unified as one would expect a multilateral response would be to a substantial natural disaster. That almost never happens. The reaction against Russia is unilateral, swift, and full of condemnation. Because well... it is a completely unjustified military action.

There is no viable excuse for Russia's military movements against Ukraine as a nation. Putin went from incursion of the black from the gray, to flat out 19th century land grab.

We'll see if this can last, but Putin appears to have completely dropped the ball here. I mentioned him playing "good chess" in the to be annexation of more Ukrainian territory, and I think it would have been allowed by enough nations, but with sanctions from others. Instead of playing his usual chess, Putin just lost his mind. I think he was starting to believe he was invincible, like the Neocons in Iraq.

That isn't what I am reading at all. You've been indoctrinated by CNN too long. Maybe it's time to actually read what the Chinese CCP media has to report https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202202/1253364.shtml?id=12

But he also said, "The legitimate security concerns of all countries should be respected. Given NATO's five consecutive rounds of eastward expansion, Russia's legitimate security demands ought to be taken seriously and properly addressed."

China is very neutral right now. They are not on board with anyone but themselves.

Russia's security concerns are understandable. Its security demands are not legitimate in so far as 'legitimate' means 'conforming to the law or to rules'.

Though by no means surprising, China's failure to unambiguously and in no uncertain terms condemn Russia's invasion of Ukraine is astonishing. Russia is not conducting a 'forward defence', even though it attempts to portray it as such. It is an act of aggression. Taking a neutral stance in relation to it is not possible.

 

[barbos]

Based on his actions, that seems quite plausible. He's certainly afraid of democracy in his own country.

We have been over this many times. You need to watch Mearsheimer lectures.
Short answer is no, he is not afraid of it.

 

[crazyfingers]

And he died over 60 years ago.

Yep, and now "Jew" President names streets after him.

Care to provide reliable sourses for this odd statement?

What do you mean sources? You did not know?
The same way you did not know Democratic Poland colluded with Hitler to grab chunk of Czechoslovakia before WW2? And once you did learn it you quietly stopped bitching about Stalin doing the same with Poland?

WWII? JESUS get over WWII. It ended over 75 years ago.

 

[Copernicus]

Based on his actions, that seems quite plausible. He's certainly afraid of democracy in his own country.

We have been over this many times. You need to watch Mearsheimer lectures.
Short answer is no, he is not afraid of it.

Mearsheimer would be quite happy to confirm that Putin is afraid of democracy in his own country. In fact, the second Mearsheimer video that he posted and urged everyone to watch started out by contrasting the individualism of liberal democracy as opposed to the social membership inherent in ethnic loyalties as a basis for nationhood. The whole point of that was to emphasize that liberal democracy was a challenge for people living in Eastern Europe, where more emphasis is placed on the relationship between group membership than individual freedom when defining nationhood. Either barbos did not listen to that second video, or he never understood the point that Mearsheimer was making--that Russians would not be comfortable with the idea that a nation was some kind of contract where individuals ceded powers to government rather than the government ceding powers to individuals. The two approaches to the nature of nationhood are at odds with each other.