How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

[Harry Bosch]

Yea, I'll double down, no chance in a million years now that Ukraine will disarm.! Again, I've been mocking Putin for his perceived intelligence for a long time. How smart is this: Putin's strategy to convince border states to disarm and be friendly to Ukraine is to invade them and break and mock all treaties that they had with them! It's human nature, people don't want their buildings bombed and its civilians shot. People don't want to be bullied.

Putin obviously intended to terrorize and spread fear, to tell bordering countries that they'd better submit or risk destruction. It's a powerful motivator if one is on the fence and he's made a pretty good example of Ukraine in that respect considering all the damage, refugees, death, etc.

I do believe the smartest thing for Ukraine to do is join NATO, build up its military, and continue to tell the Pig and his cronies to go fuck themselves in the ass. To agree to demilitarization is pure folly because the Pig and his boot lickers will be back if they think it's easy pickings. That's the only reason they made war in Ukraine in the first place, because they believed they could get away with it.

I don't know if Ukraine really needs to join Nato. They are kicking Russia's ass right now!

 

[Rhea]

Ukraine joining NATO only forces Russia to stomp on this bothersome gnat. And risk a nuclear holocaust ? Not over some gnat.

The people of Ukraine are “gnats” to you?

 

[Harry Bosch]

Russia's attempt destroy Ukraine will fail. Putin is pulling back. Most experts predict full retreat to Eastern Ukraine (Dontesk) in the next two weeks or so.

Putin will survive the setback, reform the military, and have another bite at the cherry in two or four years. He will definitely succeed with the annexation of all of Ukraine if part of the withdrawal agreement is Ukraine's demilitarisation, and probably even if the US/NATO provides Ukraine with a couple of billion dollars worth of armaments and training.

Except Russia has been strangled economically and those high end sanctions including Swift provide Ukraine substantial bargaining power regarding terms for peace such Putin out of Ukraine and paying for Crimea and the damage.

Ukraine is currently in a WWI standstill and it is up to Putin just how much more damage he wants to expose Russia and its military to.

The damage is not to Russia it is to our entire existence once the nukes start flying like that bugs bunny cartoon where they keep bringing out bigger and bigger weapons…
Russia is saying to Ukraine do not attempt to control our economy or we are prepared to blow you to smithereenies

How in the world does Ukraine control Russia's economy? Currently the west is attempting to bankrupt Russia in order to encourage Russia to stop invading. It's much cheaper for the west to stop Russia now in Ukraine and force them to retreat, than having Russian imperialism spread throughout eastern Europe.

Ukraine is losing support and there is no way they can stand against the Russian force that wiped out the nazis…

What planet are you one? What country is withdrawing their support for Ukraine? And they are standing up to Russia. And they are beating them. Russia is retreating. Where are you getting your news?

 

[Rhea]

Ukraine is losing support and there is no way they can stand against the Russian force that wiped out the nazis…

This is a strange thing to say.

I mean, there’s some truth to the fact that this is indeed an 80-year old miltary force. No updates, no real gain in capability, it seems.

But of course all of the people who fought off the Nazis are dead.

So it’s not the same force, like, at all.

 

[AGodForTheAtheist]

Ukraine is losing support and there is no way they can stand against the Russian force that wiped out the nazis…

This is a strange thing to say.

I mean, there’s some truth to the fact that this is indeed an 80-year old miltary force. No updates, no real gain in capability, it seems.

But of course all of the people who fought off the Nazis are dead.

So it’s not the same force, like, at all.

The atom bomb is like being stung by a bee.
Thousands of ne
Unclear missles is the end of humanity.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

I don't know if Ukraine really needs to join Nato. They are kicking Russia's ass right now!

I admit they are holding their own. How well would they be doing without all the military hardware? Look at how much damage to their country they have sustained. Membership in NATO would have prevented the invasion and all the damage. We all know that and should admit our mistake. We fucked up. Time to learn and move on.

Not joining NATO is exactly what the Pig wants to happen. He'll be back unless he sees the price is too high. You've got to remember this isn't about what Russia wants, they are fine with Ukraine being whatever Ukraine wants to be. This is about the Pig and the piglets.

It's also about China and the Pig there, and the Chinese Pig's territorial ambitions. But that's another thread.

 

[Elixir]

Ukraine is losing support and there is no way they can stand against the Russian force that wiped out the nazis…

This is a strange thing to say.

I mean, there’s some truth to the fact that this is indeed an 80-year old miltary force. No updates, no real gain in capability, it seems.

But of course all of the people who fought off the Nazis are dead.

So it’s not the same force, like, at all.

Even if it was - the Russian force didn't "wipe out the Nazis" at all.
They HELPED the UK, USA, and most of the rest of Europe, plus Au, NZ etc. to topple a Nazi government. Didn't help much at all with the "Japan problem", and Nazis still abound - check the USA's GQP.

What they helped to do to Germany might be exactly what's in store for them now. Maybe give a big chunk of Siberia to China, let the Baltics and Finland carve up western Russia, maybe hand a piece or two to Poland and Romania and leave the Caucasus and central Russia to the next Czar... might be a fitting cage for the Russian bear.

 

[AGodForTheAtheist]

I don't know if Ukraine really needs to join Nato. They are kicking Russia's ass right now!

I admit they are holding their own. How well would they be doing without all the military hardware? Look at how much damage to their country they have sustained. Membership in NATO would have prevented the invasion and all the damage. We all know that and should admit our mistake. We fucked up. Time to learn and move on.

Not joining NATO is exactly what the Pig wants to happen. He'll be back unless he sees the price is too high. You've got to remember this isn't about what Russia wants, they are fine with Ukraine being whatever Ukraine wants to be. This is about the Pig and the piglets.

Do you think this is a war!? Warning people before wiping out their entire neighborhood?
This is a cat playing with a mouse he can eat on a whim.

 

[AGodForTheAtheist]

Ukraine is losing support and there is no way they can stand against the Russian force that wiped out the nazis…

This is a strange thing to say.

I mean, there’s some truth to the fact that this is indeed an 80-year old miltary force. No updates, no real gain in capability, it seems.

But of course all of the people who fought off the Nazis are dead.

So it’s not the same force, like, at all.

Even if it was - the Russian force didn't "wipe out the Nazis" at all.
They HELPED the UK, USA, and most of the rest of Europe, plus Au, NZ etc. to topple a Nazi government. Didn't help much at all with the "Japan problem", and Nazis still abound - check the USA's GQP.

What they helped to do to Germany might be exactly what's in store for them now. Maybe give a big chunk of Siberia to China, let the Baltics and Finland carve up western Russia, maybe hand a piece or two to Poland and Romania and leave the Caucasus and central Russia to the next Czar... might be a fitting cage for the Russian bear.

Just another fairy tale. Propaganda. Tossing a bone to a dog.. but remember that dog can become a viscous killer in a moment.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Ukraine joining NATO only forces Russia to stomp on this bothersome gnat. And risk a nuclear holocaust ? Not over some gnat.

The people of Ukraine are “gnats” to you?

Yes, the Russians considered them to be gnats, not worthy of living free. The western sanctions have hurt Russia. Of course western supplies and military aid has helped incredibly. Ultimately, the Russian invasion will fail due to the Russians incredibly underestimating the will of the Ukranian people.

 

[Hermit]

Ukraine is losing support

Whose support is Ukraine losing?

and there is no way they can stand against the Russian force that wiped out the nazis…

The Russian force that wiped out the nazis was fighting an invader. It is questionable if it would have won without the massive injection of military hardware coming its way via the Lend-Lease program, and anyway, the army that hoisted the hammer and sickle over the Reichstag on 2 May 1945 has ceased to exist a long time ago.

The Russian campaign in Ukraine cannot be compared to what happened 77 years ago. For starters, Russia is the invader, an invader with a badly led, badly trained, badly equipped and badly motivated force hampered by badly organised logistics. Worst of all, the troops were mislead into believing they were just doing peacetime manoeuvres near the Ukrainian border. They were not prepared for an actual shooting war. Now they have wallowed aimlessly in this mess for over a month. Stalin's generals and their soldiers would have steamrolled the entire country in a week or less.

 

[Elixir]

This is a cat playing with a mouse he can eat on a whim.

A toothless cat choking on a mouse that was too tough for him in the first place.
The kitty better get busy if he intends to eat ANYTHING, because people are starving in Russia, its feeble army is dying by the thousands and even its so-called "Generals" are dying like World War one footsoldiers. They're lucky that they didn't try picking on someone closer to their own size, since they're getting their asses handed to them in Ukraine.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

[removed for consistency]

 

[Harry Bosch]

Great article below. To all those who claim that the west is trying to destroy Ukraine, we really just trying to end the war. Sanctions imposed on Russian individuals and companies could be lifted tomorrow if Russia withdraws from Ukraine and commits to ending the aggression according to members of the EU. Sanctions should only come off with a full ceasefire and withdrawal, but also commitments that there will be no further aggression. They also stated that "there’s the opportunity to have snapback sanctions if there is further aggression in the future."

MSN

To me, this is a win-win situation. Russia stops the war and send its soldiers home. Sanctions go away. The west helps Ukraine rebuild.

 

[Harry Bosch]

[removed for consistency]

Do you understand that Ukranian people are dying? This isn't a game. Ukranian homes are being bombed. Blowing up hospitals and day care centers. And seriously, you think this is a game? I wish that Russians would go back to getting their rocks off by playing chess.

 

[Elixir]

To me, this is a win-win situation. Russia stops the war and send its soldiers home. Sanctions go away. The west helps Ukraine rebuild.

That might be Pootey's nightmare scenario.
A Ukraine that was re-built with Western help would be even more entrenched in democracy, more capable and more determined than ever to showcase its liberal democratic government. Russia would have to reinforce its iron curtain against the truth getting to its public, and that is not as easy a task as it was in the 50's and 60's. It would portend the end for Pootey.
We may be at a global crossroads where the entire world will either set itself on a path to democracy, or fall to the Putins, Kims and Trumps of the world.

 

[Harry Bosch]

To me, this is a win-win situation. Russia stops the war and send its soldiers home. Sanctions go away. The west helps Ukraine rebuild.

That might be Pootey's nightmare scenario.
A Ukraine that was re-built with Western help would be even more entrenched in democracy, more capable and more determined than ever to showcase its liberal democratic government. Russia would have to reinforce its iron curtain against the truth getting to its public, and that is not as easy a task as it was in the 50's and 60's. It would portend the end for Pootey.
We may be at a global crossroads where the entire world will either set itself on a path to democracy, or fall to the Putins, Kims and Trumps of the world.

Agree. Again, a general theme that I've been striking is how dumb Putin is. Yes, a rebuilt free/democratic/successful Ukraine could be Putin's worst nightmare. But it's completely his fault! I've read many times that what Putin really wants is a border with Ukraine that is similar to the US/Canadian border. So he sets to accomplish this by attacking Ukraine and killing its citizens! Bizarre. Putin has no understanding of human nature and is an absolute menace to the border countries and ironically, a menace to the Russian people. Putin has created more enemies of the Russian people than any westerner has.

 

[Hermit]

- the Russian force didn't "wipe out the Nazis" at all.
They HELPED the UK, USA, and most of the rest of Europe, plus Au, NZ etc. to topple a Nazi government.

Eh? Yes, WWII was a huge, multinational effort, and even before the US finally got some boots on the ground its assistance via the Lend/Lease program was enormous, but the Soviet Union bore the brunt of Germany's attacks and 80% of the Wehrmacht's losses were inflicted by the Red Army.

It would be fair to say that the UK, USA, and most of the rest of Europe, plus Au, NZ etc HELPED the Soviet Union defeat the Nazi government.

 

[AGodForTheAtheist]

[removed]

Do you understand that Ukranian people are dying? This isn't a game. Ukranian homes are being bombed. Blowing up hospitals and day care centers. And seriously, you think this is a game? I wish that Russians would go back to getting their rocks off by playing chess.

War has always been a game .. think
“War Games”…
One side wins the game the other loses.
Why?
Power to do what you believe is right.
Who is right? Both are right from their point of view. Both are wrong for killing people to get what they think is right.
The ridiculous religion of love preached by idiots in the name of god pffft
The Ten Commandments saying do not harm others??? Pfft
Instead let’s kill those who don’t agree with our love for them.
Religion is the greatest cause of evil.
And yet all religions preach “love others”
Come on people, we are more intelligent than that. The answer is indeed love others.
But selfishly forcing people to do what we want, is not loving them.
Doing things that make other peoples life more enjoyable is loving them.
We know it .. we preach it.. we need to do it.
Put our actions where our mouth is.

 

[Elixir]

It would be fair to say that the UK, USA, and most of the rest of Europe, plus Au, NZ etc HELPED the Soviet Union defeat the Nazi government.

It would be fair to say that if Germany had not made the mistake of overestimating their ability to prevail over the Russian winter, the outcome would likely have been much different. The Russian people were offered up as cannon fodder, as usual.