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What does Trump say about Trump's intentions? A discussion thread for official Trump campaign positions

As for the second clause, "STOP THE MIGRANT INVASION", this is intentionally vague and dangerous rhetoric. It assumes of course, that there is a migrant invasion. There isn't, at least by any reasonable definition of "invasion". At best, that's a serious exaggeration, and its an exaggeration that puts innocent people at risk. For what I hope are obvious reasons, I oppose any use of militaristic language to refer to civilians, and this is obviously that. Just as "terrorist" is currently being used to justify the slaughter of a great many civilians overseas, it is setting us up for bloodshed to refer to American citizens or even guest workers and students as "invaders". It's all the more dangerous, because while I think most intelligent citizens ought to know that the term is rhetorical, it's obvious that a great many Americans don't, and truly believe that the number of attempted migrations into the country has risen because some enemy state actor is sending them with the intention of undermining the state. As long as this conspiracy theory is active and popular in the right wing media, using the term at all is tantamount to calling for a witch hunt. It's illegal to attack your "neighbor" unprovoked. But doesn't every citizen have a right, even a responsibilty, to repel foreign "invaders"? It also risks putting our political alliances and business partnerships in the "invading nations" in jeopardy. At a time when multiple other rising global superpowers are actively recruiting, trying to steal away our former alliances and subvert those nations' politics toward their own ends, treating our existing allies as though they were already our enemies is really fucking stupid.

The other problem is, of course, that abruptly ending all migration into the country is both an obvious practical impossibility, and an act that would collapse our economy in a matter of weeks if it were somehow accomplished. Once again, that cannot be what he means, but it is what he says. And not just says, but makes point number one in his 20 core statements. It's a dangerous thought to be setting at the veyr center of his domestic policy agenda. And as we will see, several of his other points flow from it. Such as:
 
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As for the second clause, "STOP THE MIGRANT INVASION", this is intentionally vague and dangerous rhetoric. It assumes of course, that there is a migrant invasion. There isn't, at least by any reasonable definition of "invasion". At best, that's a serious exaggeration, and its an exaggeration that puts innocent people at risk.

I agree it is a very poor choice of words. However, I have seen estimates as high as 10 million people have crossed the border, many of them illegally and a lot claiming asylum. The strain on resources around the country has been well documented. Millions of people just moving to the USA is a problem.

The other problem is, of course, that abruptly ending all migration into the country is both an obvious practical impossibilty, and an act that would collapse our economy in a matter of weeks if it. Once again, that cannot be what he means, but it is what he says. And not just says, but makes point number one in his 20 core statements. It's a dangerous thought to be setting at the veyr center of his domestic policy agenda. {snip}

I think you are getting carried away here. "STOP THE MIGRANT INVASION" does not necessarily mean stop all migrant workers from entering the USA. This is open to interpretation.
 
This is open to interpretation
Very problematically vague. It could "mean" anything between a slight throttling back of legal immigrations and a full on pogrom of all new immigrants. That, to me, is a bad policy statement.

Which is why I refer to the more detailed document.

No full on pogrom is suggested which is quite a leap you made.
 
I agree it is a very poor choice of words. However, I have seen estimates as high as 10 million people have crossed the border, many of them illegally and a lot claiming asylum. The strain on resources around the country has been well documented. Millions of people just moving to the USA is a problem
It has certainly created a lot of problems, on that we might partially agree. But divisive, militaristic rhetoric is making most of those problems worse rather than better. I think that's true regardless of what you think the correct response to those problems might be. I imagine your idea of a solution is more militaristic than mine. However, stoking vague fear and paranoia about outsiders is not helping with the housing, feeding, educating, relocating, arresting, or expelling of any of these new migrants. Rather, it makes any of the above, the cruel or the kind, logistically much harder to accomplish. You can't manage a populational problem sensibly if your citizens are at each other's throats and jumping at shadows. If a warlike atmosphere is accomplished, citizens will interfere with your operations, and are apt to attack each other in addition to your targets. Non-citizens will go as deep underground as they can, and their allies will not cooperate with your agents. How is this kind of talk supposed to help with Trump's planned Operation Wetback II in any way?
 
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I agree it is a very poor choice of words. However, I have seen estimates as high as 10 million people have crossed the border, many of them illegally and a lot claiming asylum. The strain on resources around the country has been well documented. Millions of people just moving to the USA is a problem.
I’m sure that any minute now the Republicans will pass a bill intended to address this “problem”.
 
I agree it is a very poor choice of words. However, I have seen estimates as high as 10 million people have crossed the border, many of them illegally and a lot claiming asylum. The strain on resources around the country has been well documented. Millions of people just moving to the USA is a problem
It has certainly created a lot of problems, on that we might partially agree. But divisive, militaristic rhetoric is making most of those problems worse rather than better. I think that's true regardless of what you think the correct response to those problems might be. I imagine your idea of a solution is more militaristic than mine.

Says the guy who brought up pogroms where no such thing has been suggested.

However, stoking vague fear and paranoia about outsiders is not helping with the housing, feeding, educating, relocating, arresting, or expelling of any of these new migrants. Rather, it makes any of the above, the cruel or the kind, logistically much harder to accomplish. You can't manage a populational problem sensibly if your citizens are at each other's throats and jumping at shadows. If a warlike atmosphere is accomplished, citizens will interfere with your operations, and are apt to attack each other in addition to your targets. Non-citizens will go as deep underground as they can, and their allies will not cooperate with your agents. How is this kind of talk supposed to help with Trump's planned Operation Wetback II in any way?

ffs, you just can't help yourself can you?

Ah well, I gave it a shot.

Buh-bye.
 
I agree it is a very poor choice of words. However, I have seen estimates as high as 10 million people have crossed the border, many of them illegally and a lot claiming asylum. The strain on resources around the country has been well documented. Millions of people just moving to the USA is a problem
It has certainly created a lot of problems, on that we might partially agree. But divisive, militaristic rhetoric is making most of those problems worse rather than better. I think that's true regardless of what you think the correct response to those problems might be. I imagine your idea of a solution is more militaristic than mine.

Says the guy who brought up pogroms where no such thing has been suggested.

However, stoking vague fear and paranoia about outsiders is not helping with the housing, feeding, educating, relocating, arresting, or expelling of any of these new migrants. Rather, it makes any of the above, the cruel or the kind, logistically much harder to accomplish. You can't manage a populational problem sensibly if your citizens are at each other's throats and jumping at shadows. If a warlike atmosphere is accomplished, citizens will interfere with your operations, and are apt to attack each other in addition to your targets. Non-citizens will go as deep underground as they can, and their allies will not cooperate with your agents. How is this kind of talk supposed to help with Trump's planned Operation Wetback II in any way?

ffs, you just can't help yourself can you?

Ah well, I gave it a shot.

Buh-bye.
I'd rather you didn't "buh-bye", tswizzle. Believe it or not, I admire your honesty where Trump is concerned. I don't think you're the only Trump voter on this forum, but you might be the only one who is honest and forthright about it. I appreciate that, and I've been enjoying the opportunity to have an actual conversation about these matters with you rather than the usual eye rolling contest.

As for why I'm referencing Operation Wetback, hold tight. There's a very good reason to be talking about it right now. Namely, promise no. 2 of the 20 Core Promises:

2. CARRY OUT THE LARGEST DEPORTATION OPERATION IN AMERICAN HISTORY

The current "largest deportation operation in American history" was Operation Wetback, and I think we need to look at what that operation was and what we can learn from it, if attempting to repeat that operation on an even grander scale is going to be Trump's second priority in office.
 
Trusting Trump and MAGA not to go full-bore on Project 2025's core proposals should be called Susan Collins Syndrome. Remember her? Maine senator (R) who styles herself as pro-reproductive rights, actually voted against Trump in the second impeachment, I believe, but supported his SCOTUS picks, telling us that no way would Roe be overturned. When it ultimately happened she complained that this was "completely inconsistent" with what Gorsuch and Kavanaugh "said in their hearings and in our meetings in my office."
If Trump gets his second term, he will go hog wild, like nothing we saw in '17-'21. There won't be anyone in the WH or DOJ to confront him or tone down his rages and obsessions. Anyone dumb enough to try will be purged. If the GOP runs Congress, there's just no telling how ugly and repressive things will get. They'll assume that they killed Roe and still maintained power, so they can do whatever they please. And they have a Pres who can't legally be stopped by any imaginable power. Abortion and contraception will be small potatoes. Just wait til they address Social Security, Medicare, the environment, freedom to protest, education....learn to be a monk, because the Dark Ages would be back.
 
If what he wants is only a sealed US/Mexico border, he should say so.

He does say "the Southern border".
I am, as I said, sticking to what is here presented as his "20 Core Promises", {snip}

It's not like this is hidden, there is a link for more information on it. Are you just critiquing the website or is there something else?

Oh look, words. You know if you spend more time sharing info instead of feelings you might actually be useful.

Huh? I didn't reply to you, what are you blathering on about now? Why don't you respond to what ever it is Politesse is talking about?

I have responded to the topic. My critique was aimed at your post, which only contained an emotional response and did not include any actual content from the link you mentioned.
 
I just think it a little strange when they say the largest deportation in history, but at the same time talk about building camps to put all the migrants in.
 
1. SEAL THE BORDER AND STOP THE MIGRANT INVASION

Distraction, delusion, hypocrisy, and ignorance all play into this one.

Want to stop illegal immigration? Okay then, let's significantly fine employers who hire them for first and second offenses; say, something like 10K the first time for each illegal immigrant, 20K the second time. The third time is a criminal charge with a high level misdemeanor, with another resulting in felony charges.

Oh, and the racism. Everyone knows who this is directed at. The only reason the GOP/Trump hasn't outright used the term "beaners" or "spics" is because they don't want to lose the growing number of potential votes coming from people whose origins are south of the border.
 
2. CARRY OUT THE LARGEST DEPORTATION OPERATION IN AMERICAN HISTORY
Hmmm... I wonder what could possibly go wrong with this one. For a moment, let's forget about feasibility and instead think about the appalling consequences this would have for both immigrants and non-immigrants.

Will the military be sent into say, certain parts of Los Angeles in order to begin raiding homes and markets? Will construction sites be raided as well? Will the people performing these roundups take the time to discern between a citizen and a non-citizen? Then what will be done with these people? We're talking about millions, not a few hundred here and there.

As for hispanic citizens, it's not a question of whether many will end up being wrongly arrested and deported, it's a question of how many people this will happen to. For both citizen and non-citizens, how many will die? How many families will be ripped apart?

And who is going to replace all these workers?

Then there's the absolute shame it would bring onto the country.

And on and on and on.

The mind reels at this piece of bad fiction becoming reality.
 
Then there's the absolute shame it would bring onto the country.

And on and on and on.

The mind reels at this piece of bad fiction becoming reality.
You can bet there will be grand re-openings of the children's prison camps. We'll once again have toddlers doing time because their parents hoped to get them into a "better" situation. Goddamn all the Christians who justify this. Bible-lovin' America, the country that imprisons children.
 
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I feel sorry for the writers of The Boys. Nothing they come up with could be as extreme as Trump's America.
 
I feel sorry for the writers of The Boys. Nothing they come up with could be as extreme as Trump's America.
That and they had to put up a silly disclaimer clarifying that killing the bad guy at the end of their show is by no means encouragement to kill bad guys in real life:

"The season finale of The Boys contains scenes of fictional political violence, which some viewers may find disturbing, especially in light of the injuries and tragic loss of life sustained during the assassination attempt on former President Trump.

The Boys is a fictitious series that was filmed in 2023, and any scene or plotline similarities to these real-world events are coincidental and unintentional. Amazon, Sony Pictures Television and the producers of The Boys reject, in the strongest terms, real-world violence of any kind."
 


Adults have been terrified at the prospect of children's inability to detect fiction for a long time.

When many of those children are legally adults, and/or have access to firearms, this fear is probably justified.
 
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