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God is My Superpower

^Reason and faith are both necessary. Faith is necessary to pursue a goal against obstacles, and reason is necessary to overcome obstacles and realize the goal. Ultimately, both faith and reason are united and overcome in the superman's fully developed intellect.
 
No Robots said:
^Reason and faith are both necessary. Faith is necessary to pursue a goal against obstacles, and reason is necessary to overcome obstacles and realize the goal. Ultimately, both faith and reason are united and overcome in the superman's fully developed intellect.
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Conflating faith with hope, trust, confidence or probability doesn't justify faith as a belief held without the support of evidence of evidence. Especially when what is believed on faith has a low or virtually no probability of being true.
 
DBT said:
No Robots said:
^Reason and faith are both necessary. Faith is necessary to pursue a goal against obstacles, and reason is necessary to overcome obstacles and realize the goal. Ultimately, both faith and reason are united and overcome in the superman's fully developed intellect.
Click to expand...


Conflating faith with hope, trust, confidence or probability doesn't justify faith as a belief held without the support of evidence of evidence. Especially when what is believed on faith has a low or virtually no probability of being true.
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But it's an enjoyable, emotional fantasy which is why it persists. No doubt it has survival value for some people who are unable to know otherwise. Interestingly, knowing that it is baloney confers at least the same degree of survival value.

When we experience an enjoyable fantastic account, be it a movie, book or hear something told we're getting the same good mojo. Take your superpower too far, try to actually live the fantasy, natural selection is gonna remove you from the gene pool. This is why even the most diehard superpower devotees are just all talk in the end.
 
Certainly, the more we grow in knowledge, the less we rely on faith. Here is Harry Waton:

Knowledge, indeed, is power; it is power in a double sense; first, it gives man power over the external world. All that mankind accomplished in this world was entirely due to knowledge. But knowledge is power in a still higher sense: it gives man power over his passions. And it is to the eternal credit of Spinoza that he demonstrated this great truth. Adequate knowledge gives us power to think and to act; we then overcome the passions which are the manifestation of darkness, ignorance and lack of power. The Bible commands: Know Jehovah. This is the profoundest truth of Judaism. Not faith, not slavish submission, but knowledge of Jehovah brings salvation, freedom and happiness.
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Thus far, most religions, with the exception of Judaism, still rest on faith. Judaism is the only religion that is the product of the intellect. For this reason, Judaism demands that we know Jehovah. Faith was a virtue in Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, because they had not yet attained to the intellect. The Bible tells us that Jehovah told Moses that he had not revealed himself to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob by the name Jehovah. But, after Jehovah revealed himself to the Jews from the Mount Sinai - which is only the symbol of the intellect - faith in the Jews was no longer the highest requirement: now the highest requirement was knowledge and understanding of Jehovah. Jehovah is the Infinite Intellect, and the Infinite Intellect is God.
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Our degraded scholarship urges us to distrust all our faculties of thought: sense perception, understanding, reason, intuition, intellect. This leaves us helpless to resist political and economic tyranny and unable to build an equitable future. Abusive criticism and hyper-skepticism provide the undergirding for the anti-intellectualism that is destroying civilization. It is high time to negate this negation.
 
Is this Waton you keep quoting Rabbi Harry Waton (1870-1959), who wrote:

"Since the Jews are the highest and most cultured people on earth, the Jews have the right to subordinate to themselves the rest of mankind and to be the masters of the whole earth...not by material power, not by brute force, but by light, knowledge, understanding, humanity, peace, justice and progress. Judaism is communism, internationalism, the universal brotherhood of man and the emancipation of the working class and human society. It is with these spiritual weapons that the Jews will conquer the world and the human race. The races and the nations will cheerfully submit to the spiritual power of Judaism, and all will become Jews."

Do you think this vision is a reasonable analysis of history? Do you anticipate the same 'cheerful submission' he described?
 
DBT said:
No Robots said:
^Reason and faith are both necessary. Faith is necessary to pursue a goal against obstacles, and reason is necessary to overcome obstacles and realize the goal. Ultimately, both faith and reason are united and overcome in the superman's fully developed intellect.
Click to expand...


Conflating faith with hope, trust, confidence or probability doesn't justify faith as a belief held without the support of evidence of evidence. Especially when what is believed on faith has a low or virtually no probability of being true.
Click to expand...

But, what if the person doesn't need it to be true? What if they don't care what the Bible says, they ignore all forms of organized religion, and, they also have a kind of faith in a Supreme Being, and they like it? And it helps them?


I kind of like what @No Robots said about both faith and reason being necessary to some or to many people. The kinds of people of faith who I find to be the most consistent and thorough tend to be agnostic theists (you may remember seebs) or very "liberal Christians" who some people think are atheists (Rev Barry W Lynn). (Former) Bishop John Shelby Spong (who I met, with Barry Lynn!). I also like the Mister Fred Rogers and President Jimmy Carter kinds of Christians, who have a steady faith that they don't preach.

I needed to learn a lot of logic and reason to come to the same sort of realization that No Robots did.

I have never ever understood why anyone ever wastes time trying to find or show evidence for the existence of God. WHY would you do that? and destroy the mystery of faith??

I don't think anyone really remembers where I came from, or how I got here, to "atheist message boards." It's related to the same reason why I dislike calling AI "intelligence." Chat rooms and bots.

"WHY IS GOD A LIE??"

"Because if God were real, you wouldn't need faith."

The same reply had to be programmed into the bot for all triggers we could anticipate: "Y is God a Lie?" and "God is real!" and various variations on those potential themes. That's how chat bots work, and to me, that's all AI is. Code that some nerd anticipated.

By the time I became active on the IIDB, over 20 years ago, I had already told everyone that I don't debate theology. If I do, it's as a lark, or to prove some dumb point I think I have, or want to make.

"Superman, you sure are a mean drunk."
 
Maybe the claim that both faith and reason are necessary should be explained?

What is the definition of faith being used and why is it seen as being necessary....?
 
DBT said:
Maybe the claim that both faith and reason are necessary should be explained?

What is the definition of faith being used and why is it seen as being necessary....?
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Have you ever had children? Darn tootin, tooth fairy and reason can exist for some children, but not for others.

I just jumped into this thread without reading it, so, I don't know exactly what sort of faith has already been posited.

I just don't know any people of faith who actually think the way you said they do in the post I quoted. We must know different people.

The people I know are satisfied that God (or Yah, or Allah) is good, and, that's enough. They're not preaching to me, they're just expressing their joy. That's their thing that makes them happy and helps them in life; they're unbothered.

I post music videos and comedy videos and more on my Book of Faces, but I don't expect others to become fans. (Except for Josh Johnson, you are all missing out, holy crud.)

If people say they're praying for me, I thank them for the blessing. If people say they're thinking of me, I thank them for their kind thoughts. I don't quiz them, usually.

I've eaten bean pies with Nation of Islam Muslim men, which was only possible because of my white privilege plus their misogynoir. I admit that I quizzed them. They told me their version of their views. But I don't quiz my Muslim friends, or my Jewish friends, I certainly don't quiz atheists.

Why is faith necessary? Why not? If people like it and they aren't harming me or anyone else, I honestly have no problem finding their faith logically consistent, for them.

Are not many of us former people of faith for whom that faith was a failure? Of course we are. And our many various forms of atheism and secular relig--- I mean, secular, Freethought, Humanist, Atheist, skeptic, and other nonprofit-shaped worldviews are just as rational or irrational to ourselves, perhaps to each other, in varying degrees, as faith is to the people who like and benefit from their faith.

ETA and materialist or whatever our most gracious hosts are espousing at this time.
 
If someone came into my life in any way, be it in person, online, or, however, and said to me "God is my Superpower," and then told me that God helped them or did this or that for them, I'd say, "That's awesome, that's cool." If it's on the socials, I'll click a react, maybe. I am not going to doubt them, or question their faith. That is SO rude.
 
Janice Rael said:
DBT said:
Maybe the claim that both faith and reason are necessary should be explained?

What is the definition of faith being used and why is it seen as being necessary....?
Click to expand...
Have you ever had children? Darn tootin, tooth fairy and reason can exist for some children, but not for others.

I just jumped into this thread without reading it, so, I don't know exactly what sort of faith has already been posited.

I just don't know any people of faith who actually think the way you said they do in the post I quoted. We must know different people.

The people I know are satisfied that God (or Yah, or Allah) is good, and, that's enough. They're not preaching to me, they're just expressing their joy. That's their thing that makes them happy and helps them in life; they're unbothered.

I post music videos and comedy videos and more on my Book of Faces, but I don't expect others to become fans. (Except for Josh Johnson, you are all missing out, holy crud.)

If people say they're praying for me, I thank them for the blessing. If people say they're thinking of me, I thank them for their kind thoughts. I don't quiz them, usually.

I've eaten bean pies with Nation of Islam Muslim men, which was only possible because of my white privilege plus their misogynoir. I admit that I quizzed them. They told me their version of their views. But I don't quiz my Muslim friends, or my Jewish friends, I certainly don't quiz atheists.

Why is faith necessary? Why not? If people like it and they aren't harming me or anyone else, I honestly have no problem finding their faith logically consistent, for them.

Are not many of us former people of faith for whom that faith was a failure? Of course we are. And our many various forms of atheism and secular relig--- I mean, secular, Freethought, Humanist, Atheist, skeptic, and other nonprofit-shaped worldviews are just as rational or irrational to ourselves, perhaps to each other, in varying degrees, as faith is to the people who like and benefit from their faith.

ETA and materialist or whatever our most gracious hosts are espousing at this time.
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The harm in faith may come in the form of division and conflict, where one believes this and another believes that, and their belief becomes so important to them that it forms their very identity, a Muslim, Hindu, Christian, Jew, where many may be moderate and tolerant, but some may feel they would fight and die for their faith. Also things like shunning and excommunication within families and communities.
 
DBT said:


The harm in faith may come in the form of division and conflict, where one believes this and another believes that, and their belief becomes so important to them that it forms their very identity, a Muslim, Hindu, Christian, Jew, where many may be moderate and tolerant, but some may feel they would fight and die for their faith. Also things like shunning and excommunication within families and communities.
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That's just because our ancient ancestors diverged from bonobos, not because of what beliefs are.

Bonobos are the only primates, including humans, that don’t kill others in their species​

We've always considered ourselves unique, haven't we? But peel back the layers, and you'll find that humans, like all species, are bound by the threads of evolution.

One such thread is the instinct to come together when faced with external threats. The "common enemy effect" is a phenomenon in which we bond with others over a shared opponent or issue.

Humans do it, chimpanzees do it, and now we've learned that even our peaceful relatives, bonobos, exhibit this behavior in their own subtle way. At some point in their evolution, bonobos chose to make social bonding a priority.

Outgroup threats and ingroup cohesion​

The discovery suggests that the link between outgroup threats and ingroup cohesion may have evolved several million years ago, before our evolutionary paths diverged.

The study was conducted by an international team of researchers led by Kyoto University. They surmised that outgroup threats and ingroup cohesion may be an adaptation for group-based competition, a notion that has floated around since Darwin's days.

But they had a burning question - what about species that aren't known for their fierce inter-group rivalries? What about bonobos?
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Here's the study:

Increased alertness and moderate ingroup cohesion in bonobos’ response to outgroup cues​

  • James Brooks ,​
  • Karlijn van Heijst,​
  • Amanda Epping,​
  • Seok Hwan Lee,​
  • Aslihan Niksarli,​
  • Amy Pope,​
  • Zanna Clay,​
  • Mariska E. Kret,​
  • Jared Taglialatela,​
  • Shinya Yamamoto​

​

PLOS


In a number of species, including humans, perceived outgroup threat can promote ingroup cohesion. However, the distribution and selection history of this association across species with varied intergroup relations remains unclear. Using a sample of 8 captive groups (N = 43 individuals), we here tested whether bonobos, like chimpanzees, show more affiliative ingroup behaviour following perception of outgroup cues (unfamiliar male long-distance vocalisations). We used comparable methods to our previous study of captive chimpanzees, and found that, although weaker, there was an association for more frequent social grooming in response to the outgroup condition than the control condition, alongside more alert posture and increased self-directed behaviour. This provides preliminary evidence for an ancestral origin to the proximate association between outgroup cues and ingroup cohesion, at least prior to the Pan-Homo split, and suggests the presence of intergroup competition in our last common ancestor.
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By "social grooming," they mean picking bugs off of each other and keeping each other clean. A similar human trait might be girls braiding each other's hair, or a parent and child out on the stoop/front porch, with the parent brushing and braiding that child's hair.

If people weren't prudes, they might have listened to a professional sex worker a long time ago, when she said "have orgasms and love one another, The Bonobo Way," on her definitely X-Rated site of that name, to which I shall not link.

But here's her book:

The Bonobo Way: The Evolution of Peace Through Pleasure ​

by Dr. Susan Block (Author)

The quote is very long:
In this unique and paradigm-changing book, internationally acclaimed and controversial sex educator Dr. Susan Block offers a brilliant new view of human sexuality, war, peace and community, inspired by a role model who isn’t even human: our closest genetic cousin, the bonobo. With a provocative, humorous and engaging style that makes science fun and ecology erotic, The Bonobo Way boldly asks: What do these great apes know about sex--and the rest of life--that we don’t? Here are some things we know about bonobos: They have lots of sex. They never kill each other. They empower the females. They stay younger longer. They live in peace through pleasure. And we thought humans were the smartest apes! For decades, experts have used the “killer ape” paradigm to explain why humans murder, make war, bomb and behead each other, and supposedly always will. Sure, our common chimp cousins kill, but do they tell the whole tale? Luckily, no. The Bonobo Way shows the other side of the story, presenting the bonobos as a new great ape paradigm for humanity that could change the world… or at least improve your love life. From the lush depths of the rainforest to the satin sheets of your bedroom, Dr. Block takes you on a fascinating journey, weaving stories, studies, theories and fantasies into possibilities and a practical path of action, presenting a very different kind of “12-Step Program” to release your “inner bonobo,” help save the real bonobos from extinction and energize all facets of your life. Advance Praise for The Bonobo Way: "First things first: this book is really good... The Bonobo Way is whimsical yet serious, easy to read yet thoroughly researched, challenging yet ultimately deeply comforting. Dr. Susan Block is living proof that bonobos aren’t just sexy and fun—some of them are damned smart, too." Christopher Ryan, Ph.D., best-selling author of Sex at Dawn “Bravo to Dr. Block for paving the way for a hopefully more bonobo future.” Vanessa Woods, best-selling author of Bonobo Handshake "The Bonobo Way is marvelous--a happy book for a happy life and a happier world." Xaviera Hollander, best-selling author of The Happy Hooker "Brilliant book. Enjoying it thoroughly!” Sherry Rehman, Former Pakistani Ambassador to the U.S. “I love every page of The Bonobo Way. The book is a real page turner and turn on. Susan Block’s vivid descriptions of bonobo sex and peaceful living through mutual sexual gratification should be mandatory reading for everyone struggling to maintain joy in their lives and live life to its fullest.” Christian Bruyère, "Champions of the Wild" TV producer "I love, love, love it. It is a fresh way to look at sexuality." Darrel Ray, Ed.D. author of Sex and God "Delightful and insightful” Betty Dodson, Ph.D., author of Sex for One & feminist icon “Amazing! Dr. Block is an eco-sex visionary.” Annie Sprinkle, Ph.D., Eco-Sex Artist "Dr. Suzy's 12 Steps to Releasing Your Inner Bonobo are a guide to a new understanding of how to enhance our personal sexual life and intimate relationships." Robert L. McGinley, Ph.D., The Lifestyles Organization "Think of it as Jane Goodall After Dark. A fun and fascinating read.” Thomas Quinn, author of Chocolate Jesus? "Brilliantly presented...a rambunctious, shrewd, serious, yet humorous look at bonobo society." Michael Donnelly, Counterpunch environmentalistt "As the 21st century begins, with more violence and war than began what became the ultra-violent 20th century, Dr. Susan Block's latest book is a welcome tonic." Barry A. Fisher, Lead Counsel, U.S. Supreme Court cases "All those interested in human happiness should read this book." James W. Prescott, Ph.D., author of Body Pleasure and the Origins of Violence Whether you don’t know bonobos from bananas, or you think you know all about these amazing creatures, The Bonobo Way will show you the way to a happier, healthier, sexier life, and a more peaceful, sustainable culture.
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Eco sex visionary? Another PHD writing another useless pop psychology book.

Doctor Tim Leary once at Harvard in the 60s said dosing the world with LSD would make us all happy.

His saying 'tune in and drop out'.

Sex in the form of hedonism is escapism. Hugh Hefner by virtue of his wealth surrounded and isolated himself with young women at his estate.

Want hapiness? Live lkle a rabbit, eat grass and prcrerate. Or a dolphin, swim and eat fish all day.
 
Just because the bonobos have a matriarchy and a lot of sexual activity does not mean they are hedonistic.

Just because a human person masturbates does not mean they are a hedonist.

Just because people like to fuck doesn't make them hedonists.

I apologize for whatever culture you were raised in that taught you that sexual activity must be utilitarian. Reminds me of Rick Santorum and all the other anti-sex moralists. I don't get it. It's okay to not have orgasms if you don't want to, but a lot of people really enjoy them, and some of them thank me very much.

ETA Hugh Hefner was a sexual predator, ugh. Why would you think that I meant rape.
 
ideologyhunter said:
Is this Waton you keep quoting Rabbi Harry Waton (1870-1959), who wrote:

"Since the Jews are the highest and most cultured people on earth, the Jews have the right to subordinate to themselves the rest of mankind and to be the masters of the whole earth...not by material power, not by brute force, but by light, knowledge, understanding, humanity, peace, justice and progress. Judaism is communism, internationalism, the universal brotherhood of man and the emancipation of the working class and human society. It is with these spiritual weapons that the Jews will conquer the world and the human race. The races and the nations will cheerfully submit to the spiritual power of Judaism, and all will become Jews."

Do you think this vision is a reasonable analysis of history? Do you anticipate the same 'cheerful submission' he described?
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Abso-fucking-lutely. The alternative is mouth-breathing, knuckle-dragging, anti-intellectual fascism. It seems you have made your choice.
 
DBT said:
The harm in faith may come in the form of division and conflict, where one believes this and another believes that, and their belief becomes so important to them that it forms their very identity, a Muslim, Hindu, Christian, Jew, where many may be moderate and tolerant, but some may feel they would fight and die for their faith. Also things like shunning and excommunication within families and communities.
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Faith comes in degrees. If your degree of faith causes you to decapitate an infidel or burn him alive, or shun him from your community or sentence him to hell or some other monstrous behavior then your faith is a problem. Your superpower is a problem.
 
No Robots said:
ideologyhunter said:
Is this Waton you keep quoting Rabbi Harry Waton (1870-1959), who wrote:

"Since the Jews are the highest and most cultured people on earth, the Jews have the right to subordinate to themselves the rest of mankind and to be the masters of the whole earth...not by material power, not by brute force, but by light, knowledge, understanding, humanity, peace, justice and progress. Judaism is communism, internationalism, the universal brotherhood of man and the emancipation of the working class and human society. It is with these spiritual weapons that the Jews will conquer the world and the human race. The races and the nations will cheerfully submit to the spiritual power of Judaism, and all will become Jews."

Do you think this vision is a reasonable analysis of history? Do you anticipate the same 'cheerful submission' he described?
Click to expand...
Abso-fucking-lutely. The alternative is mouth-breathing, knuckle-dragging, anti-intellectual fascism. It seems you have made your choice.
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Well, my knuckles do get low sometimes. Nice to've met ya, and good luck with all that.
 
T.G.G. Moogly said:
DBT said:
The harm in faith may come in the form of division and conflict, where one believes this and another believes that, and their belief becomes so important to them that it forms their very identity, a Muslim, Hindu, Christian, Jew, where many may be moderate and tolerant, but some may feel they would fight and die for their faith. Also things like shunning and excommunication within families and communities.
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Faith comes in degrees. If your degree of faith causes you to decapitate an infidel or burn him alive, or shun him from your community or sentence him to hell or some other monstrous behavior then your faith is a problem. Your superpower is a problem.
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Also degrees of harm. As seen in cults such as the Jehovah's Witnesses.

Quote:
''I haven’t seen my older Jehovah’s Witness sister for years and the last time we had a conversation she asked me to never contact her again. My younger sister I hadn’t seen for nine years until we appeared together on Insight’s Family Estrangement episode. My dad I only see about once a year and I haven’t seen my mum for a number of years either. Sometimes one of us will try but it just been so bad for so long, it’s just too hard.''
 
No Robots said:
^Reason and faith are both necessary. Faith is necessary to pursue a goal against obstacles, and reason is necessary to overcome obstacles and realize the goal. Ultimately, both faith and reason are united and overcome in the superman's fully developed intellect.
Click to expand...
Cringe
 
The LDS are also well-known for shunning apostate relatives. It's a powerful disincentive to question the faith. And of course, in some forms of Islam, falling away from the faith can bring about the murder of the 'heretic'.
 
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