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People Cannot Grasp Not Thinking Through A God?

 
 
 
FievelJ

FievelJ

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Basic Beliefs
May The Force Be With You, (Atheist)
IDK, I am thinking too much?
Or do I seriously wonder I guess some, that some people just cannot imagine thinking for themselves, through themselves, and by themselves, instead of through something first. Is it safe to assume most religious people cannot grasp not thinking through something else, like a God?

Just if I am wrong I want corrected, but it almost seems that religious people think they need to think through something or someone.

Again if I am incorrect, please by all means correct me.
Thanks For Reading.
 
The basic problem is that, LONG before most adherents to [Faith “X,” whatever it is] reach adulthood and thus the ability to really and rationally think for themselves, they’ve already had that faith’s beliefs internalized and accepted as self-evident, installed by people they inherently trusted.
Parents, usually, family and friends, religious leaders they literally grew up with; in most cases, the bulk of the very culture surrounding them. That whole culture, seemingly, believes it too, so of course you do as well.
Fast/forward to adulthood, and our grownup “Faith X’er” DOES “think for him or herself,” BUT, critically, it’s through a framework of already knowing that Faith X is true.
They don’t know they’ve had a blind spot purposely (and in fairness, with good intentions) ingrained into them, and that all of their thinking will be tainted to some degree by the starting assumption that God X is real.
 
LoAmmo said:
The basic problem is that, LONG before most adherents to [Faith “X,” whatever it is] reach adulthood and thus the ability to really and rationally think for themselves, they’ve already had that faith’s beliefs internalized and accepted as self-evident, installed by people they inherently trusted.
Parents, usually, family and friends, religious leaders they literally grew up with; in most cases, the bulk of the very culture surrounding them. That whole culture, seemingly, believes it too, so of course you do as well.
Fast/forward to adulthood, and our grownup “Faith X’er” DOES “think for him or herself,” BUT, critically, it’s through a framework of already knowing that Faith X is true.
They don’t know they’ve had a blind spot purposely (and in fairness, with good intentions) ingrained into them, and that all of their thinking will be tainted to some degree by the starting assumption that God X is real.
Click to expand...
Something which I broke free from after trying to strengthen faith. Had to comb through religious sites, before I got one scientifically talking about it. Next thing I knew my mind was filled with curiosity and how much more there was out there. Needless to say no faith ever got strengthened, as faith fell completely off and ended up an atheist.

If you read a few of my posts, it almost happened before a few times, so it was bound to happen eventually.

I have not gone to bed, LOL, and it is light out. ;)
 
We're just all different. Mother nature has a different recipe for each human on the planet. It's why no two of us are the same. It's like asking why we're not all good violinists or geologists. We just have different innate abilities that we inherited.

If there is a better answer I think it lies in our brain structures. I have seven siblings and we were all exposed to virtually identical upbringings. But we're very different religiously, politically and in our interests. More specifically each human tends to be either emotionally oriented or rationally oriented. We tend toward one end. My mother, for example had absolutely no intellectual interests and zero scientific curiosity but she was a super great caregiver. She lived an emotional life primarily. If we could look at the specific structure of her brain we'd be able to see why, something we cannot presently do. And we'd be able to see how her brain differs from someone working at CERN. That difference would lie primarily in the limbic system and the prefontal cortex.

Our prefontal cortices don't mature for decades and some never mature. Again, just mother nature at work. That prefontal cortex is 1/3 of our brain and the last part to come along from an evolutionary perspective. Males have a completely developed PFC at age 30 on average. Gals have one by age 25. That PFC intercepts impulsive limbic system stimuli and gives us a choice how to react. That's why we're so impulsive as kids.

So people who are religious to a fault aren't operating with the same system as yourself. That's pretty much the answer. There are other reasons as LOAMMO and others mention but the primary driver is brain structure.
 
T.G.G. Moogly said:
We're just all different. Mother nature has a different recipe for each human on the planet. It's why no two of us are the same. It's like asking why we're not all good violinists or geologists. We just have different innate abilities that we inherited.

If there is a better answer I think it lies in our brain structures. I have seven siblings and we were all exposed to virtually identical upbringings. But we're very different religiously, politically and in our interests. More specifically each human tends to be either emotionally oriented or rationally oriented. We tend toward one end. My mother, for example had absolutely no intellectual interests and zero scientific curiosity but she was a super great caregiver. She lived an emotional life primarily. If we could look at the specific structure of her brain we'd be able to see why, something we cannot presently do. And we'd be able to see how her brain differs from someone working at CERN. That difference would lie primarily in the limbic system and the prefontal cortex.

Our prefontal cortices don't mature for decades and some never mature. Again, just mother nature at work. That prefontal cortex is 1/3 of our brain and the last part to come along from an evolutionary perspective. Males have a completely developed PFC at age 30 on average. Gals have one by age 25. That PFC intercepts impulsive limbic system stimuli and gives us a choice how to react. That's why we're so impulsive as kids.

So people who are religious to a fault aren't operating with the same system as yourself. That's pretty much the answer. There are other reasons as LOAMMO and others mention but the primary driver is brain structure.
Click to expand...
I was only trying to suggest a person of religion has problems letting go.
But that was a great read in any case. ;)
 
FievelJ said:
I was only trying to suggest a person of religion has problems letting go.
But that was a great read in any case. ;)
Click to expand...
They can't let go because their emotions are so strong compared to their ability to observe and process information dispassionately. That's in their brain structure. We're each much more a complete book upon arrival. None of us are a blank slate.
 
T.G.G. Moogly said:
FievelJ said:
I was only trying to suggest a person of religion has problems letting go.
But that was a great read in any case. ;)
Click to expand...
They can't let go because their emotions are so strong compared to their ability to observe and process information dispassionately. That's in their brain structure. We're each much more a complete book upon arrival. None of us are a blank slate.
Click to expand...
Right.

And my love side if for compassion I like a lot.
I only ended up atheist as I was trying to strengthen a thing called (Faith) and lost all of it instead.
But natural feelings and such became more important to experience, just wish more could get smart enough for it.
 
FievelJ said:
But natural feelings and such became more important to experience, just wish more could get smart enough for it.
Click to expand...
You sound "smart" enough to me. Emotions are like any other part of your body. Your leg doesn't make decisions for you so why should your emotions? At least that's how I think about it.
 
I have a BIG problem with the whole concept of strengthening faith.
Why on god’s green earth would anyone want to do that?
To make a lie of what is evident?
To make fiction plausible?
What does it further other than delusion?

Faith as a stand-alone attribute is not a virtue IMO, but it is widely accepted as such by most religiophiles.
 
T.G.G. Moogly said:
FievelJ said:
But natural feelings and such became more important to experience, just wish more could get smart enough for it.
Click to expand...
You sound "smart" enough to me. Emotions are like any other part of your body. Your leg doesn't make decisions for you so why should your emotions? At least that's how I think about it.
Click to expand...
My brain still has to move my limbs though, even if they are not necessarily emotions.
Elixir said:
I have a BIG problem with the whole concept of strengthening faith.
Why on god’s green earth would anyone want to do that?
To make a lie of what is evident?
To make fiction plausible?
What does it further other than delusion?

Faith as a stand-alone attribute is not a virtue IMO, but it is widely accepted as such by most religiophiles.
Click to expand...
That last part made me laugh.
The only so called (Faith) I have anymore is that of things which have some sort of solid evidence. Faith is what the bible and god is, I do not need them in my life. ;)
 
T.G.G. Moogly said:
FievelJ said:
But natural feelings and such became more important to experience, just wish more could get smart enough for it.
Click to expand...
You sound "smart" enough to me. Emotions are like any other part of your body. Your leg doesn't make decisions for you so why should your emotions? At least that's how I think about it.
Click to expand...
On the contrary, the brain is not that special. We make decisions with input from both our nervous and our endocrine systems, and when we try to pretend that we don't, we have to come up with increasingly bizzarre rationalisations for the things we do.

Instincts and emotions are evolved generalist responses, that have been selected for their provision of reproductive advantage over a couple of billion years.

We have massively modified our environment over the last six thousand years or so; And our emotional responses haven't had time to catch up. So for optimum results, we need to use the more 'expensive' cerebral parts of our decision making apparatus, to overrule the quick and easy (but hasty and outdated) solutions offered by the emotional parts of that apparatus.

"Civilisation" is the behaviour required to live in a "civis". We are hyper-social animals, but our recent ancestors could not be (if only because they lacked the tools and technologies to concentrate resources sufficiently. Put ten million people in one place with only paeleolithic technology, and most of them will be dead within the year; Give them modern technology, and they will flourish as a great metropolitan centre).

Our endocrine systems are still struggling to catch up. Pretending that we don't use them anymore is unhealthy and untrue; Making the effort to recognise our use of them, and to correct the inappropriate responses they inspire, before they do harm (to ourselves or others) is difficult, but brings great rewards to those who can learn to do it.
 
I'm not quite sure what "thinking through something else" would be like.
I can't get my 'inner voice' to shut the fuck up. Everything I say is rehearsed, internally. Everything. I don't remember training myself to do this as a good thing to do or anything. It's more like language itself is a second language to me.
I sometimes wonder if everyone does this, but have been afraid to ask.
Perhaps this constant analyzing everything led me to avoid 'thinking through something else' like a god.
Elixir said:
I have a BIG problem with the whole concept of strengthening faith.
Why on god’s green earth would anyone want to do that?
To make a lie of what is evident?
Click to expand...
So much of christanity is ass-backward. Life after death. Gives us 'free will' but sends us to hell if we use it, because he 'loves' us. Being a sheep is supposedly a good thing.
Faith = turn your brain off.
 
unapologetic said:
Everything I say is rehearsed, internally. Everything. I don't remember training myself to do this as a good thing to do or anything. It's more like language itself is a second language to me.
I sometimes wonder if everyone does this, but have been afraid to ask.
Click to expand...
I am the exact opposite; I often don't know what I think until I say it.

If I am thinking through a really difficult problem, it's like my brain adds extra capacity by borrowing the speech centre as a processor, so little bits of half-formed thought come out as muttering.

Other people can find it quite disturbing, but over my fifty-plus years I have learned to make it more specific and focussed when in company, so that onlookers can understand it too. Still, I sometimes make odd little comments that aren't intended as conversation, but that people around me treat as though they were.

On the other hand, my examiner on my Heavy Rigid driving test was very impressed that I provided a detailed commentary, and asked if I had previously taken an advanced driving exam that required it. So it's not all bad.
 
FievelJ said:
IDK, I am thinking too much?
Click to expand...

I can't say, but from my own personal experience it isn't likely unless you feel dizzy. Thinking too much is unlikely, like the song says, too much money or too much fun.

FievelJ said:
Or do I seriously wonder I guess some, that some people just cannot imagine thinking for themselves, through themselves, and by themselves, instead of through something first. Is it safe to assume most religious people cannot grasp not thinking through something else, like a God?
Click to expand...

I know what you mean. I used to think that was the case, and it happens with some people, I'm sure, but really, I think people use the god concept to think. Are you familiar with the term Deus Ex Machina? It was a theatrical or literary device. It means literally God of the Machine. Or God of one's own hands. It's when a plot device or literal theatrical device is used to present a god to solve a problem. Superheroes for example, appearing to save the day is useful in a plot. A god of one's own making. People use God and religion for their ideological fixation.

Politics, too.
 
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