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Philosophy Bakes No Bread

 
 
 
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steve_bank

Diabetic retinopathy and poor eyesight. Typos ...
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The poet Novalis wrote: Philosophy can bake no bread; but she can procure for us God, Freedom, Immortality. Which, then, is more practical, Philosophy or Economy? So, even in the old saying, it is suggested that philosophy is profoundly more valuable than bread baking or economics.Oct 11, 2017
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Agree or disagree?

Without economics and prosperity there is no time for philosophizing and contemplating profound ideas. '

Witness this forum. Those who post here have the time to do so because of economics.

In kilopascal Greece the philosophers had the time to sit around and think, based on the underlying system. Not much different in form than today, international 'supply chain' networks.




This economic system is known as mercantilism, and it served the ancient world well, allowing for the establishment of widespread trade networks. Many people were able to benefit from this trade, which resulted in the spread of goods as well as ideas, information, and people.
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philosophy is profoundly more valuable than bread baking or economics.
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This is no mere assertion; It's measurably and testably true.

Just as distance is measured in metres, so value is measured in dollars.

Bread baking is of little value, as with most bare essentials. A basic supermarket loaf of bread costs A$2-3 retail, and you can make your own bread far more cheaply than that, if you have the time and some basic kitchen equipment; A mere bachelor's degree in Policy, Philosophy and Economics will set you back A$100,000+ in tuition fees alone (source).

Eating is essential, but basic food is not valuable. Basic food is cheap. Luxuries are expensive, because luxuries are valuable.

This foolish conflation of necessity with value is commonplace, and leads to all manner of stupid and destructive impulses.

Art is valuable. Knowledge is valuable. Vacations are valuable. Bread is cheap. Water is cheap. Air is free.
 
Absent a practiced, refined manner of thinking, good luck with that wheatfield. It's not actually thoughtless work, you need to model the weather, your local ecosystem, what's known of the plants themselves. Humans have been considering and refining consistent systems of reasoning and prediction for many millennia, and the habit has greatly advantaged our survival. Even someone who despises academic philosophy has a philosophy, they just never learned how to consider and refine that philosophy for themselves, and are thus highly dependent on whatever fragments of thought, knowledge, and ideology happen to come to them through their social networks. I do therefore prefer the academic approach, but it isn't a necessity, communities will cultivate folk philosophies with or without the perceived legitimacy of the academy.
 
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People use the word philosophy as if it is a kind of active agent. Philosophy does or did this or that.

A structured way of doing things is 'philosophy'?

A recipe for baking cookies is philosophy?

Ancient Zog figured out how to make fire chip racks to make spearheads. No philosophy required.
 
steve_bank said:
People use the word philosophy as if it is a kind of active agent. Philosophy does or did this or that.

A structured way of doing things is 'philosophy'?

A recipe for baking cookies is philosophy?

Ancient Zog figured out how to make fire chip racks to make spearheads. No philosophy required.
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Incorrect. A structured way of thinking about things is a philosophy.
 
So is math a philosophy?
Is evolutionary theory a philosophy?
Is scientific methodology itself a philosophy?
 
Elixir said:
So is math a philosophy?
Is evolutionary theory a philosophy?
Is scientific methodology itself a philosophy?
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No, no, and yes. Didn't you ever take a course on the philosophy of science? Or wonder why the highest credential in most fields of study is called the Philosophiae Doctor?
 
steve_bank said:
The poet Novalis wrote: Philosophy can bake no bread; but she can procure for us God, Freedom, Immortality. Which, then, is more practical, Philosophy or Economy? So, even in the old saying, it is suggested that philosophy is profoundly more valuable than bread baking or economics.Oct 11, 2017
Click to expand...

Agree or disagree?

Without economics and prosperity there is no time for philosophizing and contemplating profound ideas. '

Witness this forum. Those who post here have the time to do so because of economics.

In kilopascal Greece the philosophers had the time to sit around and think, based on the underlying system. Not much different in form than today, international 'supply chain' networks.




This economic system is known as mercantilism, and it served the ancient world well, allowing for the establishment of widespread trade networks. Many people were able to benefit from this trade, which resulted in the spread of goods as well as ideas, information, and people.
Click to expand...
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God, freedom and immortality are all illusionary concepts. They are not concepts from advanced philosophy but from religion and politics.
Baking bread is used as representation of all worldly things, and they are real.
Man can not live by bread alone is a Biblical concept (see quote below), and as you can see from the quote is religious in nature.
Deuteronomy 8:3
So He humbled you, allowed you to hunger, and fed you with manna which you did not know nor did your fathers know, that He might make you know that man shall not live by bread alone; but man lives by every word that proceeds from the mouth of the Lord.

Freedom is a controversial notion, which whilst fine in theory, is used by all for their own purposes, not to help people.
I saw a MAGA this week say they want freedom, not healthcare. The irony.
As to Immortality, the saying is obviously not referring to physical immortality but the false hope of an afterlife.

There is a difference between real philosophy and the pap that passes for it in much popular culture.
 
Politesse said:
Elixir said:
So is math a philosophy?
Is evolutionary theory a philosophy?
Is scientific methodology itself a philosophy?
Click to expand...
No, no, and yes. Didn't you ever take a course on the philosophy of science? Or wonder why the highest credential in most fields of study is called the Philosophiae Doctor?
Click to expand...
Yeah yah. But why not “the philosophy of diversity” or “the philosophy of quantities”?

And if you have any other questions that start with “did you ever take a course on”, the answer can safely be assumed to be no. I have attended a lot of wilderness, emergency and combat medical lectures, but the last formal education I had was a WFR cert course, and before that I completed 11th grade.
 
Elixir said:
Politesse said:
Elixir said:
So is math a philosophy?
Is evolutionary theory a philosophy?
Is scientific methodology itself a philosophy?
Click to expand...
No, no, and yes. Didn't you ever take a course on the philosophy of science? Or wonder why the highest credential in most fields of study is called the Philosophiae Doctor?
Click to expand...
Yeah yah. But why not “the philosophy of diversity” or “the philosophy of quantities”?

And if you have any other questions that start with “did you ever take a course on”, the answer can safely be assumed to be no. I have attended a lot of wilderness, emergency and combat medical lectures, but the last formal education I had was a WFR cert course, and before that I completed 11th grade.
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Well, there certainly are philosophers who specialize in those things. But I also maintain that professional philosophers do not have a monopoly on reflective thinking. There was thought before Plato.
 
Philosophy never baked a loaf of bread, but it did help us learn how to bake bread efficiently, and apply logistics and reason out how to effectively distribute it, as well as reasons for bakers to bake it.
 
To the self styled philosophers all is philosophy, without defining what that means.

Someone on the forum once said science is owned by philosophy, I am a philosopher, therefor I am a scientist.

From my long ago Phil 101 class.

The word Philosophy comes from the Greek philo (love) and sophia (wisdom) and so is literally defined as “the love of wisdom”. More broadly understood, it is the study of the most basic and profound matters of human existence.Oct 16, 2020
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Philosophy is the study of fundamental questions about existence, reason, knowledge, value, mind, and language. It's a rational and critical inquiry that reflects on its own methods and assumptions.
In ancient times, philosophy was related to any area where intelligence was expressed, such as business, politics, human relations, or carpentry. Philosophy had a "wholeness" approach to life in antiquity.
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So, does economics supply the free time and means to study and contemplate profound questions of existence?


Somebody has to bake the bread the philosopher eats while writing books and thinking.

Social science, political science, psychology, modern science, linguistics and other areas have developed into independent disciplines.
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Areas like archeology, astronomy, and anthropology are dependent on excess economic capacity and wealth.

That leaves morality and ethics, aesthetics, logic, debate, meaning of life within the realm of philosophy as a discipline.
 
steve_bank said:
Social science, political science, psychology, modern science, linguistics and other areas have developed into independent disciplines.
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Interdependent, I would say. We certainly do not ignore philosophy or philosophers. And in the other direction, philosophers have little choice but to respond to the advances of the sciences.

So, does economics supply the free time and means to study and contemplate profound questions of existence?
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I disagree that philosophy requires a full weekly schedule of free time. I mean, I'm sure that would be nice, but it is hardly reality even for professional lecturers on the subject, whose schedule is as busy with other errata as anyone's. If contemplating the ordered mind is something you want to pursue you will find the time in which to pursue it. All jobs and pursuits leave some time for rest; it is your choice what to do with that time. Indeed, you are likely to discover that spending time in contemplation makes one feel as though one has more time in your day than if you invested the same hour watching television. Television encourages most of the brain to go into stand-by; philosophy turns everything on.
 
steve_bank said:
Someone on the forum once said science is owned by philosophy, I am a philosopher, therefor I am a scientist.
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Meh. Science is the child of philosophy.

Parents don't own their children, and having a child who is a lawyer, or a doctor, doesn't qualify you to practice law, or medicine.
 
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