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If the baby can survive outside the womb is abortion "murder"?

I love the “That’s what Elon Musk says.” So like, “That’s what Donald Trump says, and I am inclined to agree.”
 
T.G.G. Moogly said:
If a person dies for lack of health care is their death "murder?"
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I think abortion normally involves killing in a fairly swift way not dying from dehydration or something. Perhaps not providing health care could be considered manslaughter (e.g. not helping or not calling an ambulance if you're alone and you see an unconsious person in a car accident bleeding a lot).
T.G.G. Moogly said:
excreationist said:
That's what Elon Musk says. I tend to agree with him.
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Did he name any murderers? Please quantify "survive."
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Survive means to be able to live at least a few minutes or hours ideally without an external life support system. He didn't name any "murderers".
 
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pood said:
Whatever Elon Musk says should be disregarded on general principles. The man is a con artist, a narcissist, and a douchebag.
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That first sentence sounds like an overgeneralisation or exaggeration. I think what Elon Musk says is at least often true.
 
pood said:
I love the “That’s what Elon Musk says.” So like, “That’s what Donald Trump says, and I am inclined to agree.”
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I think Elon Musk considers Trump to be the lesser of two evils or at least has some problems. Elon Musk said that the Democrats want to allow voting without identification allowing illegal immigrants to vote especially in the six swing states. He says that if the Democrats win the US will be a one party system like California. I'm not sure if his views are accurate but at least I can understand his reasoning. He also said that Kamala didn't really get voted in democratically and she often just reads what the teleprompter says (like a puppet might). I'm not sure if Trump will make things better or worse and I had been quite worried about Project 2025.
 
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A baby cannot survive immersed in amniotic fluid so it’s a stupid question.

Elon says whatever he thinks will cause more power and money to accrue to Elon Musk. It is unforgivably naive to think the guy has relevant opinions about anything else.
 
Let's take that to it's logical conclusion. They're already working on artificial wombs. They're also working on cloning. (We could probably clone a person now--but it would be extremely unethical.) What happens when we have both? Does every cell in your body become a person?

Does developing such technologies change what constitutes a person? How could knowledge change whether something is a person?

Thus proceeding from the original premise we get an obvious nonsense result. The only way to resolve this is to conclude the original premise is false.
 
Elixir said:
A baby cannot survive immersed in amniotic fluid so it’s a stupid question.
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??? I thought outside the womb meant that there was no amniotic fluid...
Elixir said:
Elon says whatever he thinks will cause more power and money to accrue to Elon Musk. It is unforgivably naive to think the guy has relevant opinions about anything else.
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He also said that he thinks we're probably in a video game. Do you think telling people that makes them more likely to give you money and power? It isn't a very popular belief though I share it.
 
Loren Pechtel said:
Let's take that to it's logical conclusion. They're already working on artificial wombs. They're also working on cloning. (We could probably clone a person now--but it would be extremely unethical.) What happens when we have both? Does every cell in your body become a person?

Does developing such technologies change what constitutes a person? How could knowledge change whether something is a person?

Thus proceeding from the original premise we get an obvious nonsense result. The only way to resolve this is to conclude the original premise is false.
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So the premise is false because of hypothetical technologies involving artificial wombs and human cloning? What if we are talking about the present day or the 1960s, etc?
 
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Then there is the idea of "reproductive rights" that women can do what they want with unwanted tissue which is "their body". Though if a baby can survive on its own it seems it is no longer part of her body....
 
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excreationist said:
pood said:
I love the “That’s what Elon Musk says.” So like, “That’s what Donald Trump says, and I am inclined to agree.”
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I think Elon Musk considers Trump to be the lesser of two evils or at least has some problems. Elon Musk said that the Democrats want to allow voting without identification allowing illegal immigrants to vote especially in the six swing states. He says that if the Democrats win the US will be a one party system like California. I'm not sure if his views are accurate but at least I can understand his reasoning. He also said that Kamala didn't really get voted in democratically and she often just reads what the teleprompter says (like a puppet might). I'm not sure if Trump will make things better or worse and I had been quite worried about Project 2025.
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What’s the point in reasoning if all your premises are false?
 
Murdering babies is illegal. Abortions done at or after an indeterminate “point of viability” were illegal even under RvW.
But… who were you planning to charge with murder? The Mom? The dad?
The Obgyn? The primary Doc? All of the above as conspirators to murder and/or accessories to murder? Death to all!
Stupid idea.

Laws don’t solve nonexistent problems anyhow.
 
Elixir said:
Murdering babies is illegal. Abortions done at or after an indeterminate “point of viability” were illegal even under RvW.
But… who were you planning to charge with murder? The Mom? The dad?
The Obgyn? The primary Doc? All of the above as conspirators to murder and/or accessories to murder? Death to all!
Stupid idea.

Laws don’t solve nonexistent problems anyhow.
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I didn't consider "murder" requiring a guilty party just that it seems the killing is somewhat unethical. Elon Musk was saying an alternative would be to adopt out the baby. I'm just unsure whether the killing is ethical when it is just a matter of the pregnancy being an inconvenience (and it isn't a case of rape or incest, etc).
 
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Who cares.
It doesn’t happen enough to be any kind of social disease that needs to be addressed by a government. I agree that it sounds disgusting, immoral, unethical and like a bad thing. So much so in fact, that I have foregone any plans I ever had to engage in such a thing. How about you?
 
Elixir said:
Who cares.
It doesn’t happen enough to be any kind of social disease that needs to be addressed by a government. I agree that it sounds disgusting, immoral, unethical and like a bad thing. So much so in fact, that I have foregone any plans I ever had to engage in such a thing. How about you?
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I think the inconvience of a pregnancy can seem to outweigh the issues with killing an unborn baby... even though apparently a lot of couples (or singles) are trying to adopt...
 
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