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Do Atheists believe in Heaven?

steve_bank said:
Nothing wrong with speculation. As far as I know scifi kinds of speculations have not led to real wprld wars and oppression.

I do think that some of the claims made on philosophy are religious like beliefs.

The only heaven I was ever aware of was between a woman's legs. One transcends reality...

More useless trivia in my brain.

The French term for "little death," often used in reference to the euphoric feeling after orgasm, is "la petite mort". It literally translates to "the little death." This phrase refers to the brief loss or weakening of consciousness and the feeling of euphoria experienced after climax.
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The old cliche is that immortality lays in having kids.
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I have heard that forever is two people and a ham (or a leftover turkey)
 
Jimmy Higgins said:
Learner said:
DBT said:
Christian morality? Is it moral to say "believe X or face eternal damnation, believe in Jesus as your redeemer or suffer eternal torment"
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Christian morality according Christ is to .. love your neighbour,love your enemy, love and feed the poor and hungry and so on and so on.

Simply put by the context of your statement, like other atheists with this logic:

Its either you 'love your neighbour etc & etc.' as mentioned above, OR it's damnation!
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There is no agreement among the Christian faith that that is true. Catholics are more the acts is redemption thing. Protestants are more the born-again saved people.
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The common denominator amongst most faiths who wear the Christian banner, Catholics & Protestants ALL agree that 'Jesus is the Son of God and salvation is through him alone, this is the crucial element...

...everything else other than that, often debated between denominations seems fairly trivial in comparison.
 
Learner said:
Jimmy Higgins said:
Learner said:
DBT said:
Christian morality? Is it moral to say "believe X or face eternal damnation, believe in Jesus as your redeemer or suffer eternal torment"
Click to expand...

Christian morality according Christ is to .. love your neighbour,love your enemy, love and feed the poor and hungry and so on and so on.

Simply put by the context of your statement, like other atheists with this logic:

Its either you 'love your neighbour etc & etc.' as mentioned above, OR it's damnation!
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There is no agreement among the Christian faith that that is true. Catholics are more the acts is redemption thing. Protestants are more the born-again saved people.
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The common denominator amongst most faiths who wear the Christian banner, Catholics & Protestants ALL agree that 'Jesus is the Son of God and salvation is through him alone, is the crucial element...

...everything else other than that seems fairly trivial in comparison.
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and if there is no afterlife, then neither salvation nor damnation means anything.
 
Learner said:
Catholics & Protestants ALL agree that 'Jesus is the Son of God and salvation is through him alone
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What a pitch.
Sign up or get eternal torture.
It is a sad statement about humanity that in this age when science is the only thing keeping them alive, two and a half BILLION of us signed up for that fantasy, and credit our survival and well-being (present and future) to the verity of a superstitious fairy tale.
Another 2 BILLION subscribe to the same deal under the umbrella of Islam. Those two alone comprise over half our global population. Add in Jews, Hindus and a few other bellicose gangs, and the warring mess our world is in can be largely explained.
 
Learner said:
If it were the case there's no afterlife I would agree with your statement.
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I have a view of an "afterlife" that doesn't resemble the Abrahamic heretics view at all.

I don't much bother talking about it though because I cannot support any of it. But at least mine doesn't support nasty ancient instinctive behavior.
"Do as you're told by the elite and God will reward you later, after you're dead and the elite have no further use for you."
I've heard Christianity described as the religion of slavery. I think that is a bit hyperbolic, but not extremely so.
Tom
 
WAB said:
DBT said:
We have been dead before. We are now alive. Sooner or later we are going to be dead again.
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And the being dead again won't be any worse than the being dead before. Where was I when the pyramids were being built? I was dead. Did it trouble me at all? Nope.
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I think it was Samuel Clemens who said something like "I was dead for millions of years before I was born. I was not inconvenienced in the slightest."
Tom
 
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Ugh. The Christian heaven as described in the NT and by the true believers would be ridiculously boring and maximally unfit for the attention span and brain activity of humanity. Eternal fellowship and worship with the divine one and his kid and ghost? Spare me. After about eight earth hours, I suspect even the Joyce Meyer-level believers will need a break. "Anyone here got a Smart Speaker? I didn't know I'd have to just sit and stare at glowing presences." God: 'My dearest daughter, I have brought here to --' Joyce: (breaking in) Borrrring!! Borrring!! I'm sorry, I know you're the big guy and everything, but I have - had - eNOUGH. I said I loved you, what else do you want??"
How do I know this? Just ask Jennifer Aniston or Angelina Jolie. They were married to Brad Fucking Pitt, got to look at his face all day, and they're well out of it now. Or ask David Justice, Eric Benet, or Olivier Martinez, who got to share every waking moment with Halle Berry, but that's all over now.

I intend to preach about this, if I can a guest pastor gig at our local Semi-Apostolic Church of the Presumptive Godhead, which is a full-Bible congregation.
Me: Good morning, and what a beautiful morning it is. And what a beautiful sanctuary you have, here at Semi-Apostolic. My text today is from Ecclesiastes. You that wish to read along, we'll start at chapter 3, verses 19-22:
"For the fate of the sons of men and the fate of beasts is the same. As one dies, so dies the other. They all have the same breath, and man has no advantage over the beasts; for all is vanity. All go to one place, all are from the dust, and all turn to dust again. Who knows whether the spirit of man goes upward and the spirit of the beast goes down to the earth? So I saw that there is nothing better than that a man should enjoy his work, for that is his lot; who can bring him to see what will be after him?"
And let's cap that off with chapter 9, verses 5 and 6:
"For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing, and they have no more reward; but the memory of them is lost. Their love and their hate and their envy have already perished, and they have no more for ever any share in all that is done under the sun."
(Unrest in congregation.)
I know, weird, right? Do you see what he's saying? And this (thumping Bible) is scripture! He's saying all the heaven talk is malarkey. So now, God's giving YOU the choice of what to believe.
(Angry comment from elderly man in front row.)
Oh, shut up, Herbert, for pity's sake. Just shut your big trap. I remember you coming here week after week with that insufferable wife of yours. What was her name? Josie? Jezebel? No, it was Jodie. She's dead. I'm so glad. She bossed you around 'til even your best friends were saying you needed to grow a pair -- behind your back, obviously. You want there to be a heaven so that you can go see her fat ass again and have her give you directions on worship? Am I right? I don't see you saying anything now. Think about it.
See, your Bible says the dead know nothing. Spell it with me. N-o-t-h-i-n-g. Is that so frightening? You need fairy tales, at your age? Hell, half of you are on your last legs now. This whole church will be dead in 15 years, maybe less.
So, in conclusion, there will be no offering today. Donate to our food bank, if you wish, we'll keep that going. But go spend your money on something that makes you happy. Forget all this heaven stuff. It's stupid. Your Bible says so. Tell your friends. Now get the hell out of here.
 
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Learner said:
If it were the case there's no afterlife I would agree with your statement.
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Well, it is the case.

Unless quantum field theory is obviously and wildly wrong.

(It's not. We checked).

Your failure to sufficiently study and understand the reality you inhabit, is no excuse for spreading nonsense about.

There are many things we don't know; But one thing we (rather unexpectedly) do know is that there cannot be a mechanism by which our "selves" survive the destruction of our bodies. It's a surprising thing, that such knowledge proves to be atainable. But it's really unavoidable that it is true - unless, as I said, quantum field theory is obviously and wildly wrong. Which it isn't.
 
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WAB said:
DBT said:
We have been dead before. We are now alive. Sooner or later we are going to be dead again.
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And the being dead again won't be any worse than the being dead before. Where was I when the pyramids were being built? I was dead. Did it trouble me at all? Nope.
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Though the noise they made, cutting and shifting all that rock, was enough to wake the dead. Some pharaohs have no consideration for their neighbours.
 
WAB said:
DBT said:
We have been dead before. We are now alive. Sooner or later we are going to be dead again.
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And the being dead again won't be any worse than the being dead before. Where was I when the pyramids were being built? I was dead. Did it trouble me at all? Nope.
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Almost like being a fetus.
Sorry - I’ll leave now.
 
Elixir said:
WAB said:
DBT said:
We have been dead before. We are now alive. Sooner or later we are going to be dead again.
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And the being dead again won't be any worse than the being dead before. Where was I when the pyramids were being built? I was dead. Did it trouble me at all? Nope.
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Almost like being a fetus.
Sorry - I’ll leave now.
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Okay, I'm confused. You care to explain this response to my post?
 
All this focus on Christianity serves to enhance the euphoria of Christians like Learner.
 
WAB said:
Elixir said:
WAB said:
DBT said:
.
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And the being dead again won't be any worse than the being dead before. Where was I when the pyramids were being built? I was dead. Did it trouble me at all? Nope.
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Almost like being a fetus.
Sorry - I’ll leave now.
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Okay, I'm confused. You care to explain this response to my post?
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Oookay, I thought it was obvious.
I once was dead, and it bothered me not at all; I felt no pain and have no recollection of it good or bad.
I once was a fetus, and it did not bother me in the least; I felt no pain and have no recollection of it, good or bad.
 
Elixir said:
WAB said:
Elixir said:
WAB said:
DBT said:
.
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And the being dead again won't be any worse than the being dead before. Where was I when the pyramids were being built? I was dead. Did it trouble me at all? Nope.
Click to expand...
Almost like being a fetus.
Sorry - I’ll leave now.
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Okay, I'm confused. You care to explain this response to my post?
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Oookay, I thought it was obvious.
I once was dead, and it bothered me not at all; I felt no pain and have no recollection of it good or bad.
I once was a fetus, and it did not bother me in the least; I felt no pain and have no recollection of it, good or bad.
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Yeah, I knew what you meant in that respect. What I meant by 'explain' was with respect to your intention. I thought maybe you mistook me as a pro-lifer because of some of my comments in the Roe vs. Wade thread, in addition to my likes of many of Emily Lake's posts there, and were making a little dig.

Whatever.

In any case, it might be a tad silly to compare a fetus with complete nonexistence. The point I was making in that post was that the reason I wasn't troubled by the building of the pyramids is because I didn't exist, not because I can't remember anything about it.
 
Also, not all of us were wet blanket fetuses. Some of us got cool early. As soon as I got toe buds, I was writing shit on the uterine wall. The ones I remember are "THIS PLACE SUCKS" and "WHERE'S THE FOOD?" Also a pretty crude drawing of boobs. (I was a Caesarean, so all this stuff was discovered.) They tried early culture exposure by playing Clair de Lune on the hifi, but after I heard it once, I was so bored I started kicking the Bo Diddley beat, which stopped Debussy in his tracks. My best prank was learning to imitate the sound of a ringing phone, which drove my mom apeshit.
BTW, all this tude I was showing back then makes me even more pro-choice. I was a little snot, and I own it.
 
WAB said:
the reason I wasn't troubled by the building of the pyramids is because I didn't exist, not because I can't remember anything about it.
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I suspect that those two things are interrelated.
 
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