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How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

Navigation Gone Wrong
Soviets Shoot Down an Airliner
While flying from Anchorage, Alaska to Seoul, South Korea on September 1, 1983, a Korean Air Lines jumbo jetliner strayed into Soviet airspace. The error proved tragic.
What Happened

Mostly out of range of land-based radio beacons and air traffic radar stations, the crew of KAL Flight 007 had to depend on inertial navigation. But flying without an assigned navigator, the pilot and copilot failed to notice that the plane’s autopilot was not following the waypoints programmed into the inertial navigation system.
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Russia was determined to be responsible for shooting down Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 in 2014 over eastern Ukraine by a UN aviation agency in May 2025, following a similar incident with Azerbaijan Airlines flight 8243 in late 2024, which sources suggest was hit by a Russian air defense system
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I'd say shoot down any Russian military jet violating NATO airspace, first issue a warning that is what will happen.

It appears inevitable there will be a NATO confrontation provoked by Russia, why else the provocations. There have been multiple incursions.

At this point my guess is Putin is getting irrational and maybe delusional.
 
Elixir said:
aupmanyav said:
Why not?
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Why not indeed. I wish you the best in any effort to preserve a democratic republic for the people of India.
Keep in mind that vigilance is required. India has only been a democratic republic since about a month before I was born in 1950. The USA was (mostly) one for well over 200 years before complacency and stupidity stepped in to destroy it.
It is possible that something of value might be salvaged from the ashes, but even that seems less likely every day that the Republicans in control fail to step up to meet the moment.
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Take a look at 19th century politics and print media. Pretty much the same.
 
steve_bank said:
Pretty much the same.
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Not regressive for the time though.
Anyhow, it took well over a century from there, to get to a point where we elected a black president and were respected worldwide as a benevolent force for representative government. It may take another century to get anywhere near that status, if the dust ever settles on American fascism.
 
steve_bank said:
Navigation Gone Wrong
Soviets Shoot Down an Airliner
While flying from Anchorage, Alaska to Seoul, South Korea on September 1, 1983, a Korean Air Lines jumbo jetliner strayed into Soviet airspace. The error proved tragic.
What Happened

Mostly out of range of land-based radio beacons and air traffic radar stations, the crew of KAL Flight 007 had to depend on inertial navigation. But flying without an assigned navigator, the pilot and copilot failed to notice that the plane’s autopilot was not following the waypoints programmed into the inertial navigation system.
Click to expand...

Russia was determined to be responsible for shooting down Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 in 2014 over eastern Ukraine by a UN aviation agency in May 2025, following a similar incident with Azerbaijan Airlines flight 8243 in late 2024, which sources suggest was hit by a Russian air defense system
Click to expand...

I'd say shoot down any Russian military jet violating NATO airspace, first issue a warning that is what will happen.

It appears inevitable there will be a NATO confrontation provoked by Russia, why else the provocations. There have been multiple incursions.

At this point my guess is Putin is getting irrational and maybe delusional.
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Putin is also watching his American stooges, Trump and Co., destroy American power. Our economy, our government, our values, our political clout, they're all going in the toilet as fast as Trump can destroy them.

Putin is winning the competition for "sole remaining superpower".
Tom
 
barbos said:
bilby said:
steve_bank said:
Fighting between Pakistan and India has no effect on the greater world.

Putin's provocations by violating NATO airspace can lead to catastrophic consequences which will affect the world. War leading first to Russia using tactical nuclear weapons escalating to a nuclear war.
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You do know that both India and Pakistan have nuclear weapons, right?
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Russia has way more nukes than Pakistan and India and China for that matter combined. Did not prevent US/NATO "proxy" aggression.
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Russian nukes are worthless, even if they still work (which is unlikely).

Like Mustard Gas in WWII, everyone is neevous that somebody will use it, but even a madman who is about to be utterly defeated won't do it, because the retaliation would be too horiffic.

Putin knows that the very first time he uses a nuclear weapon, Russia (including - indeed, particularly) the bits he is currently believed to be inhabiting, will be turned into a wasteland of radioactive rubble.

He won't ever give the order. Not least because it might well not be obeyed - the people who arm and fire those nukes also know that doing so will destroy everything they care about.

Russian nuclear weapons are a paper bear.
 
bilby said:
He won't ever give the order.
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I don't have your confidence in the essential rationality of humans, much less those of people like Putin, Hitler, or Trump.

I see them as dangerously similar to the kind of people who shoot up a school or a concert or something, in a suicidal attack, so as to go out in a blaze of glory.
Tom
 
Thanks, Elexir. Moreover, our Army is apolitical. That is a big help. And Modi as the Prime Minister, honest, sane.
Indeed, we are blessed.
 
bilby said:
He won't ever give the order. Not least because it might well not be obeyed - the people who arm and fire those nukes also know that doing so will destroy everything they care about.
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You are dangerously misinformed. Russian military has been suggesting nukes for Ukraine/NATO since the beginning.
 
bilby said:
Russian nuclear weapons are a paper bear.
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All that chest-thumping and insults is projections.
You went into this war sure that you would win, All you needed was a pretext for sanctions and economy smaller than that of a Spain would crumble in a couple of months. Remember that?
And then remember Abrams ATACAMS, F16 and other scary game changing wunderwaffe?
How is that working for ya?
 
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I have said before and will repeat it again. The problem is that Putin is none of the the things western propaganda describes him as. He is not not a deranged maniac hell bent on restoring USSR and invading West. That's why the west continuously escalates, they know damn well, that Putin is rational and will not over-react. When in reality Putin should have reacted and over-reacted long time ago, that would have saved a lot of ukro-lives and russians too.
 
Barbos bragged that Russia has many more nukes than the west.

Russia has threatened the use of nuclear weapons to try to scare NATO form helping Ukraine.

Finland was threatened with 'serious cowpunchers' if it joined NATO. It did.

The usual Cold War Soviet propaganda and saber rattling.

Putin and the 'mighty' Russian army could not defeat a poorly eqipedd and trained Karine. The Russian army turned tail and ran back to the border.

Russian bridges blown, ships sank, attacks on mayoralty installations, aircraft destroyed. Dronee strikes near Moscow.

Now North Korean troops.

How does Putin sleep at night?

We do not what the Russians think right now because the media is controlled. Criticism is punished.

Anyone who is doing what Putin does is deranged. Dead and crippled Russian soldiers to satisfy Putin's delusions.

We have a delusional president. The difference is so far our system is managing to limit his actions.


As of late 2025, Russians' access to foreign news is severely restricted through website blocks, censorship, and threats of criminal prosecution
. The widespread use of Virtual Private Networks (VPNs) is the primary method for accessing foreign news, though authorities are actively working to block them and penalize users.
State-controlled information environment
Since Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukraine in February 2022, the government has intensified its crackdown on independent media and foreign news, creating a highly controlled information landscape
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What would Russians think if they had free access to reporting from around the world.

Iver here I see open reporting from all over the world. Except Russia.

Putin is what WWII and the Cold War was about, opposing dictators.
 
TomC said:
steve_bank said:
Navigation Gone Wrong
Soviets Shoot Down an Airliner
While flying from Anchorage, Alaska to Seoul, South Korea on September 1, 1983, a Korean Air Lines jumbo jetliner strayed into Soviet airspace. The error proved tragic.
What Happened

Mostly out of range of land-based radio beacons and air traffic radar stations, the crew of KAL Flight 007 had to depend on inertial navigation. But flying without an assigned navigator, the pilot and copilot failed to notice that the plane’s autopilot was not following the waypoints programmed into the inertial navigation system.
Click to expand...

Russia was determined to be responsible for shooting down Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 in 2014 over eastern Ukraine by a UN aviation agency in May 2025, following a similar incident with Azerbaijan Airlines flight 8243 in late 2024, which sources suggest was hit by a Russian air defense system
Click to expand...

I'd say shoot down any Russian military jet violating NATO airspace, first issue a warning that is what will happen.

It appears inevitable there will be a NATO confrontation provoked by Russia, why else the provocations. There have been multiple incursions.

At this point my guess is Putin is getting irrational and maybe delusional.
Click to expand...
Putin is also watching his American stooges, Trump and Co., destroy American power. Our economy, our government, our values, our political clout, they're all going in the toilet as fast as Trump can destroy them.

Putin is winning the competition for "sole remaining superpower".
Tom
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A few Republicans have noted Trump is being played by Putin.

Trump says he is disappointing in Putin, he thought they were friends and had a good relationship.
 
steve_bank said:
Barbos bragged that Russia has many more nukes than the west.
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I did no such thing. It was this thread nazi supporters who said that Indian and Pakistani nukes are important issue that should be accounted for. I pointed out that Russia has way more and actually better nukes than India,Pakistan and China combined and that it did not prevent western regimes aggression against Russia
To which nazi supporters replied that russian nukes do not work. Well, that's dumb and irrensponsible.

steve_bank said:
Russia has threatened the use of nuclear weapons to try to scare NATO form helping Ukraine.
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We actually has not. But we should have been more assertive in red lines department.

steve_bank said:
The usual Cold War Soviet propaganda and saber rattling.
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Again, it's not us, it's you.

steve_bank said:
Putin and the 'mighty' Russian army could not defeat a poorly eqipedd and trained Karine.
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Whose fault is that? NATO sucks if they could not equip and train Karine nazis.


steve_bank said:
Russian bridges blown, ships sank, attacks on mayoralty installations, aircraft destroyed. Dronee strikes near Moscow.
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Great, why are you insisting on ceasefire then?
You are doing great, no need to change anything.

steve_bank said:
We do not what the Russians think right now because the media is controlled. Criticism is punished.
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Keep telling yourself that, and stay the course. It's actually works for .... Russia.
steve_bank said:
We have a delusional president.
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That I agree, but it's actually worse than that. Your deep state monkeys are also delusional.
 
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TomC said:
Putin is also watching his American stooges, Trump and Co., destroy American power. Our economy, our government, our values, our political clout, they're all going in the toilet as fast as Trump can destroy them.
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He actually does not care. It's actually weird how on one side you claim that Putin is stupidly destroying Russia and on the other hand he is some smart dude who is overseeing destruction of US.

Reality is, Putin is not really concerned with that. He is not that grand. His concern is Russia. And he knows that what West offers is utterly destructive to Russia. He can't accept your offers, and some of your "strategists" know and counting on that.
Though, they stupidly believe that end result will be their win.
 
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