Most conflicts in the area you'll find Iran playing puppet master. Yet the world keeps blaming the Jews and turning a blind eye to Iran's actions. Look under the streetlight!!!
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They used to be the center of progress in the world. But now the area has become a shithole because Islam is being used as a tool for power. And the war in EastAsia (Israel) has been very useful for distracting the population.“Shithole.”
Meanwhile, urban centers, written law, astronomy, mathematics, trade networks, and libraries all originated in that same stretch of land. But sure, centuries of colonial borders, coups, and foreign interference have nothing to do with it.
Oh and, while the “modern state” you’re praising (really just a synonym for Western-style civilization) was stumbling through its Dark Ages, it was Arab and Persian scholars who preserved and expanded the works of Greece and Rome. Surely something happened over time with these same people to get us here, and it can’t only be about them.
EDIT: And by “these same people,” I include the Jewish communities that were part of that same civilizational fabric. Their early laws, ethics, and scholarship shaped the region too.
Showing what something was doesn't mean it still is that! Things can get better, things can get worse.
steve_bank
Diabetic retinopathy and poor eyesight. Typos ...
Actually the Brits but the kibosh on Jews buying land as I understand it.
Regardless Israel was founded by seizing prime land they could not pay for.
I read a book on the run up to the founding. There were militant Jewish factions fighting each other. Both Jews and Arabs committed atrocious. Menachem Begin future leader of Israel was a terrorist bomber.
ttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing
Please do not try ad tell me the Jews were innocents in all of it. It all happ0ened before I was born not for me to judge morally. What I do look at is what Israel did to Palestinians post formation of Israel.
As we speak Israel is expanding colonization of the West Bank displacing Palestinians. A slow decades long cultural genocide.
A little known story. An American Jewish officer post WWII was given the nod to go to Palestine. He is credited with restructuring the Jewish militants into an army. Killed by friendly fire.
Mickey Marcus - Wikipedia
Look at the total tonnage of ordnance expended on Gaza, a very small area. Palestinians had no where to go, shooting fish in a barrel. If the bombing campaign was not genocide I do not know what is.
The destruction of Gaza has not destroyed Hamas, it destroyed the peool and their homkes.
Bomb a school, hospital, or home Israel says there were terrorists. It is not a militarily canpai8gn it is a terror campaign.
As the war p[regressed reporting from Israel showed the army was getting frustrated seieing no military goal. Some soldiers began refuting to fight.l
It all comes around to Netanyahu keeping his political power. He tried to eliminate judicial review of the legislature, backed off due to popular opposition. It would be like Trump getting rid of SCOTUS.
Islam has been a problem for a long, long time. It's just in the past the problem was mostly local and when everyone in an area is on the same side there is little trouble. The developing technology has turned local issues into global ones. But even before the colonial era: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbary_corsairs The reality is colonialism is rarely the main problem in an area, just an excuse to avoid addressing internal issues.
The 19th–20th-century European imperial policies are what turned a historically advanced, interconnected region into the fragmented map you see today, and your grand historical takeaway is just “Islam happened.” Brilliant. Funny how no one mentions that what we now call “radical Islam” largely took shape after European colonization, coups, and proxy wars tore apart the same societies that once led the world in science and philosophy.
Colonize people, erase their history, sell them weapons, then act shocked when “Islam happens.”I guess "Islam happens" is just a creative way of naming the harvest of an empire’s planting.
steve_bank
Diabetic retinopathy and poor eyesight. Typos ...
Agree.
Trying to eliminate Hamas does not solve the problem. With Hussein gone Iran is the bad actor in the region.
Lebanon has been described as user militarily occupation funded by Iran.
Hamas gets a paycheck and the elite probably live pretty good. If they give up power they have to get day jobs.
No. I have been in some of the places that are now the trouble spots of the world--they weren't back then. Backwards, yes. Islam, but not radical Islam. A bit of respect for religious codes and you would have no trouble. (Same as you wouldn't walk into a church here in a bikini.)
bilby
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You are never going to be able to produce a useful (or even rational) opinion on any moral issue while you insist on clinging to your insane insistence that "good guy" and "bad guy" are categories that are in some way sensible.
There are literally and exactly zero entities that can be included in either set; Your use of them indicates a degree of ignorance about the human condition that disqualifies you from even the possibility that you might have a useful opinion.
Fucking stop it, and grow up.
TV westerns of the 1960s are not the acme of moral philosophy. In real life, nobody wears a hat colour-coded to his moral worth.
There are not now, and have never been, "good guys". Only a simpleton (or a religious enthusiast, but I repeat myself) would even give credence to the possibility that there were.
The Saudis were not harming Iran, Iran chose to fund a proxy war to hurt the Saudis.
If it wasn't Iran behind the messes over there why do you always find Iranian fingers in the pie? Why should we ignore the one consistent factor with all the Middle East and Africa trouble? (Pakistan/Afghanistan is separate.)
I doubt they did more than simply keep track of where. And it appears that they didn't actually do a very good job of that.
Maybe some were, but haven't you been paying attention to the horrors that have been visited upon the hostages?
I don't think either is actually very relevant.
I see no reason to think this. If it were about not helping Biden it would have happened months ago.
How many are under the rubble? You're taking Hamas' word for it on that. Somehow there are 10,000--and the count doesn't change. That makes no sense--as time goes on the death count of any mass calamity drops as duplicates are resolved. We saw the same thing with the twin towers--10,000 missing, but it actually turned out to be about 2,500. It's a Hamas fabrication, just like basically everything else they say. Most things were evacuated before the bombs fell, there's little reason to think there's any great number in the rubble.
It's not Israel that chose 10/7.
And it's not really Hamas, either. The prime mover is Iran.
Exactly. This isn't about race. It's about culture and about the utterly ruthless manipulation by the puppetmasters that are funding the mess.
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Who said 10,000? Sources I've posted here say Hamas does not count the missing as dead.
TomC
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Really, it's this.
Unfortunately for the Palestinians in general, and the Gazans in a particular, they are being used as cannon fodder/human shields.
Violent Muslim supremacists are the real problem. No amount of blaming Zionists is going to help.
Tom
We saw that gang fight--the fact that it happened says a lot about the lack of Hamas control.
And we have the GHF undermining their whole aid-based control. Killing people going for aid wasn't enough to derail it, it had to be stopped lest they fall entirely. Even if that means giving up the hostages.
Fundamentally, it comes down to whether science is saying things they object to.
We've seen it with multiple religions--when science says something they don't like they go anti-science. And once they go down that path they attack the messenger (science in general) even when it doesn't conflict with their faith.
This isn't in any way unique to Islam. Christianity has been guilty of it on multiple occasions.
Politesse
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If "violent Muslim supremacists" are the real problem, slaughtering thousands of innocent people who aren't "violent Muslism supremacists" is not going to help solve the problem. In fact, I am not seeing any evidence whatseover that slaughtering thousands of people who are "violent Muslim supremacists" is helpful.
Have you noticed how the most powerful nations in the world keep losing wars to ragtag bands of angry religious extremists? You really think it's because their main strategy of killing lots of people was sound, they just didn't kill enough? Next time, they'll be able to kill enough bad guys and peace will reign? How is losing war after bloody war to extremist pseudo-Muslim militias supposed to make anyone safer?
There are two parts to what he said.
Yes, like every other conflict it's about power (money is a means to power).
But what he was referring to is how much the left supports one of the viler organization on Earth. Why do you bend over backwards to avoid blaming them for what they have done??
When you make excuses for it you are supporting it.
She was wearing a miniskirt? Obviously she wanted it and it wasn't rape! Of course you don't buy that--but it's basically the same thing with this war.
It's not that they'll print any old rubbish, it's that if they want access to report from Gaza they have to report what Hamas wants them to report.