$1000 fine to sleep on the streets of Las Vegas

[Jolly_Penguin]

Well now, this is a bit messed up.


https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/07/us/las-vegas-ban-homeless-camping/index.html

Las Vegas is one of a number of cities across the country with a significant number of homeless people because of a combination of expensive rent, job loss, addiction and lack of mental health services.

...

The ordinance passed in Las Vegas makes it a misdemeanor to camp or sleep in the public right-of-way, such as a sidewalk, in downtown and residential areas if space is available at the Courtyard Homeless Resource Center or another non-profit service provider.

Its pay $1,000 fine or spend 6 months in jail.... um the homeless won't be able to pay... so they will crowd the jails. Is that what is really needed? And won't that be more expensive than building actually decent public housing and mental health facilities for those who need it?

In Las Vegas, a 2016 survey of over 400 homeless people found that 84% slept most often outside of a shelter, including 52% who slept on the street, sidewalk or doorway. In addition, 55% of people had not used any shelter services in the past year, and of those, 31% said it was because of bed bugs and 18% said it was because of dirty conditions.

If its preferable to sleep in a doorway than in their homeless shelters, methkinks they need some better shelters.

 

[TSwizzle]

I'm surprised the Vegas council didn't give them bus fare to California.

But I don't see how this improves the situation. Fining homeless people isn't viable, homeless people definitely don't have $1,000. If they are found camping on the street they need to be forced off the street and into the available shelters.

 

[Half-Life]

A lot of these people are mentally ill. If you build shelters for them, they'll just go right back to the street because that's all they know. At least the threat of jail might actually force some of them to actually apply for jobs.

Are you guys also so naive to think none of these homeless people have families they can go to? Granted, not all of them have families, I will give you that. But, you would think that a lot of them DO have families and if even their families won't take them, then it shows just how bad some of them actually are.

 

[laughing dog]

One has to wonder what percentage of the homeless would be able to afford a $1,000 fine.

 

[Half-Life]

One has to wonder what percentage of the homeless would be able to afford a $1,000 fine.

Some of them could've saved up all their money they got panhandling instead of buying booze the second they get $5.

Years ago, I hung out with a friend and by the off ramp to his house, homeless people always hung out. Every day my friend would pass them on the way home and ask, "How many jobs you guys apply for today?" and they would say, "Yo man shut up!" Then the next day my friend would ask them again, "How many jobs you guys apply to today?" and I remember one of them stood up and yelled, "IF YOU ASK THIS ONE MORE TIME, IM GONNA KNOCK YOUR HEAD OFF!" The next day my friend asked them again and one guy started running after his car and my friend sped through the red light.

Just goes to show these people don't try one bit.

 

[Derec]

Is that what is really needed?

Better than to have them all poop on the sidewalks like they are doing in San Francisco.

 

[Bronzeage]

It sounds strange to say it out loud, but today's American conservatives truly believe the solution to any social ill is to make someone's life worse than it is now, and this will create an incentive to accumulate wealth.

However, the arithmetic in this case is pretty simple. A person who is caught sleeping outdoors can pay $1000, or spend 6 months sleeping indoors, with all meals provided. What this means in the plainest terms, Las Vegas is ready to provide a homeless person with shelter and sustenance(including medical care) for the equivalent of $5.55 a day.

Penn Gillette once said, "Las Vegas is a town founded on bad math. Everyday thousands of people arrive in Las Vegas, where they see volcanoes, pirate ships, and waterfalls in the desert. Not one of them stops and asks, How do they pay for all of this?"

It appears the city leaders of Las Vegas are no better at math than the rubes who finance the casinos.

 

[bleubird]

https://endhomelessness.org/what-ho...i1lzlEdj9f2PvhI97i3TqW5tu2WXEcFQaAmFHEALw_wcB

My town has a small(32 unites) housing complex,with more coming soon. It is far cheaper for a city to build housing than to cycle people though the system over and over.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

It sounds strange to say it out loud, but today's American conservatives truly believe the solution to any social ill is to make someone's life worse than it is now, and this will create an incentive to accumulate wealth.

However, the arithmetic in this case is pretty simple. A person who is caught sleeping outdoors can pay $1000, or spend 6 months sleeping indoors, with all meals provided. What this means in the plainest terms, Las Vegas is ready to provide a homeless person with shelter and sustenance(including medical care) for the equivalent of $5.55 a day.

Penn Gillette once said, "Las Vegas is a town founded on bad math. Everyday thousands of people arrive in Las Vegas, where they see volcanoes, pirate ships, and waterfalls in the desert. Not one of them stops and asks, How do they pay for all of this?"

It appears the city leaders of Las Vegas are no better at math than the rubes who finance the casinos.

While in general the conservatives are wrong, when it comes to homelessness the only real solution is to make it as unpleasant as possible. People choose life on the street because it's easier for them than behaving in society. The problem will persist so long as that is true. The homeless generally avoid the shelters because there are too many rules (the shelters expect basic proper behavior, like taking a shower.) (This isn't the only reason but it's a big one.) On the coldest winter nights the news occasionally reports a "crisis" because almost all the shelter beds are full. I have never seen a report that all were full.

As for CNN's reasons--they missed the weather. It's a very dry climate--they rarely get rained on. In the lower parts of town it's very rare for it to go below 30F on the coldest winter nights.

 

[Derec]

https://endhomelessness.org/what-ho...i1lzlEdj9f2PvhI97i3TqW5tu2WXEcFQaAmFHEALw_wcB

My town has a small(32 unites) housing complex,with more coming soon. It is far cheaper for a city to build housing than to cycle people though the system over and over.

True. But the problem is that many homeless are mentally ill and will not stay housed even if you provide housing.

 

[Bronzeage]

It sounds strange to say it out loud, but today's American conservatives truly believe the solution to any social ill is to make someone's life worse than it is now, and this will create an incentive to accumulate wealth.

However, the arithmetic in this case is pretty simple. A person who is caught sleeping outdoors can pay $1000, or spend 6 months sleeping indoors, with all meals provided. What this means in the plainest terms, Las Vegas is ready to provide a homeless person with shelter and sustenance(including medical care) for the equivalent of $5.55 a day.

Penn Gillette once said, "Las Vegas is a town founded on bad math. Everyday thousands of people arrive in Las Vegas, where they see volcanoes, pirate ships, and waterfalls in the desert. Not one of them stops and asks, How do they pay for all of this?"

It appears the city leaders of Las Vegas are no better at math than the rubes who finance the casinos.

While in general the conservatives are wrong, when it comes to homelessness the only real solution is to make it as unpleasant as possible. People choose life on the street because it's easier for them than behaving in society. The problem will persist so long as that is true. The homeless generally avoid the shelters because there are too many rules (the shelters expect basic proper behavior, like taking a shower.) (This isn't the only reason but it's a big one.) On the coldest winter nights the news occasionally reports a "crisis" because almost all the shelter beds are full. I have never seen a report that all were full.

As for CNN's reasons--they missed the weather. It's a very dry climate--they rarely get rained on. In the lower parts of town it's very rare for it to go below 30F on the coldest winter nights.

After spending the last 20 years as an urban pioneer, where I have had many dealings with homeless people and have gotten very familiar with their general problems, I have to ask a few questions.

What exactly would "as unpleasant as possible" entail. Would this include driving by on cold nights and throwing water balloons? Maybe just sending out gangs to administer random beatings.

How on earth can you describe making another human beings life "as miserable as possible" in order to make yours a little more pleasant, as the only real solution to anything?

 

[DBT]

https://endhomelessness.org/what-ho...i1lzlEdj9f2PvhI97i3TqW5tu2WXEcFQaAmFHEALw_wcB

My town has a small(32 unites) housing complex,with more coming soon. It is far cheaper for a city to build housing than to cycle people though the system over and over.

True. But the problem is that many homeless are mentally ill and will not stay housed even if you provide housing.

Then maybe that should be addressed?

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

https://endhomelessness.org/what-ho...i1lzlEdj9f2PvhI97i3TqW5tu2WXEcFQaAmFHEALw_wcB

My town has a small(32 unites) housing complex,with more coming soon. It is far cheaper for a city to build housing than to cycle people though the system over and over.

True. But the problem is that many homeless are mentally ill and will not stay housed even if you provide housing.

Some will stay in housing, especially if they get needed mental health services.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

https://endhomelessness.org/what-ho...i1lzlEdj9f2PvhI97i3TqW5tu2WXEcFQaAmFHEALw_wcB

My town has a small(32 unites) housing complex,with more coming soon. It is far cheaper for a city to build housing than to cycle people though the system over and over.

True. But the problem is that many homeless are mentally ill and will not stay housed even if you provide housing.

Then maybe that should be addressed?

The problem is we don't have any good solution. Mental health treatment is generally unpleasant and they avoid it.

 

[DBT]

Then maybe that should be addressed?

The problem is we don't have any good solution. Mental health treatment is generally unpleasant and they avoid it.

Are they actually offered help or treatment? Or just left alone until they seek help...which may be never?

 

[ruby sparks]

Just goes to show these people don't try one bit.

Tell me that you don't actually, seriously, think of yourself as a Christian.

 

[bleubird]

Then maybe that should be addressed?

The problem is we don't have any good solution. Mental health treatment is generally unpleasant and they avoid it.

Are they actually offered help or treatment? Or just left alone until they seek help...which may be never?

It is a condition of the housing that they get consoling and in time seek employment.

 

[southernhybrid]

Then maybe that should be addressed?

The problem is we don't have any good solution. Mental health treatment is generally unpleasant and they avoid it.

No. It's more like public support for mental health treatment was drastically cut down during the 1980s. The long term care hospitals were closed down and there was supposed to be a lot of money for public health nurses etc. to help the more seriously mental ill folks live independently.

Plus, many if not most homeless folks aren't mentally ill. They just can't afford housing, especially if they live in a city where housing is extremely expensive. Some homeless people actually hold down full time jobs, shower in public restrooms etc. But it's not easy to work and be homeless.

The lack of compassion and understanding coming from people posting on this thread is rather sad.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

The lack of compassion and understanding coming from people posting on this thread is rather sad.

That's a mild, nice way of putting it.

 

[RVonse]

Plus, many if not most homeless folks aren't mentally ill. They just can't afford housing, especially if they live in a city where housing is extremely expensive. Some homeless people actually hold down full time jobs, shower in public restrooms etc. But it's not easy to work and be homeless.

The lack of compassion and understanding coming from people posting on this thread is rather sad.

And the lack of compassion from the Democratic liberal run cities too. If they wanted to, these local governments could and would make sure home prices in these area's remained stable. But they don't want their housing prices to be lower. I can think of policies just off my head that contribute to the problem of unstable housing prices (and subsequent homelessness):

1. Get rid of proposition 13 - Make everyone pay property taxes equally and fairly based on assessed value. Absolutely no exceptions. Yes, that means the old retired people will have to move out to other cheaper areas of the country. But they do not work anyway and do not need to live close to jobs. No one gets a tax break based just on seniority.
2. Do not allow any outside investment positions of real estate. China go home and stop raising the prices.
3. Relax the codes and allow more building on free land and more vertical structures to improve density
4. No empty ghost homes. If you buy a home, you live there or you have to rent it out. Reduce speculation any way possible.
5. Take away some of the monetary incentive of house flippers.

Those are just off the top of my head. I am sure there are other ways these governments are shooting themselves in the foot.