28 page 911 Commission bombshell?

[Underseer]

Oh look! More 9/11 conspiracy theories!

Wheeeeeee!

Are we seriously still entertaining this nonsense? Boneyard, you deserve credit for giving credibility to a kooky liberal conspiracy theory instead of the usual right wing kooky conspiracy theories you throw around, but isn't it about time you started using more credible information sources?

So then you know absolutely what happened there? Is that type of knowledge only available to conservolibertarians? Is it okay to call an honest accounting of what happened "nonsense" in the interest of protecting state secrets? I agree it is a tangled web of lies but cannot discount the physical fact that the twin towers and building seven bore a very strong resemblance to a controlled demolition. Admit it...that was just plain weird.

It's only weird if you've been reading conspiracy pages.

I know, I know. Those of us who listened to the experts have been duped by "them."

Isn't that the appeal of conspiracy theories? All evidence supports your claims, even the contrary evidence, because you can always just explain it away with "That's just what they want you to think!!!!!!!!!"

 

[ZiprHead]

Oh look! More 9/11 conspiracy theories!

To be fair this is a lot more tame than most "conspiracy theories".

While I agree this is far from the controlled demolition, thermite bullshit, etc. put out by conspiricists, I would very much like to know what is in the redacted portions of the report.

 

[thief of fire]

Best we not upset the Saudi's (even if they do fund Jihadi's)
Saudi Arabia, 9/11 and the Rise of ISIS

The rise of the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (Isis) has been aided by the continuing failure of the US Government to investigate the role of Saudi Arabia in the 9/11 attacks and its support of jihadi movements such as al-Qaeda in the years since, says former Senator Bob Graham, the co-chairman of the official inquiry into 9/11.

Senator Graham, who chaired the Senate Intelligence Committee, said that successive administrations in Washington had turned a blind eye to Saudi support for Sunni extremists. He added: “I believe that the failure to shine a full light on Saudi actions and particularly its involvement in 9/11 has contributed to the Saudi ability to continue to engage in actions that are damaging to the US – and in particular their support for Isis.”

 

[boneyard bill]

Interesting topic. Do you know how de-classification could be done?

I think Obama could do just like that. He has told a group of 911 victim family members that he would consider it, but so far he has done nada. I would think that congress could surely order it's declassification if both chambers approve.

 

[boneyard bill]

Cong. Walter Jones (R. N.C.) and Rep. Steven Lynch (D. Ma.) have co-sponsored a resolution seeking release of 28 pages from the 911 Commission Report that were redacted from the original report and classified by the Bush Administration. Cong. Jones, who has read the report, says he was "shocked" by what he found. Cong. Lynch agreed.

Leaked information on the report claims that it discusses the involvement of a foreign government in the 911 attacks. That government is Saudi Arabia.

http://www.ibtimes.com/911-link-sau...nment-report-congressmen-push-release-1501202

Jones and Lynch are not free to discuss the details of the report, but Jones has said that the report would be an "embarrassment" for the Bush Administration which originally classified the material and does not contain any information that would jeopardize the national security.

So what is in the report? The link provided here does not suggest anything embarrassing to the Bush Administration. But there are reports circulating on the web. (Sorry, I don't remember where I heard it.) That the embarrassing material would be that Bush knew in advance about the 9/11 attacks because of the intelligence gathered on the Saudis and did nothing about it.

We need these pages to be released.

Oh look! More 9/11 conspiracy theories!

Wheeeeeee!

Are we seriously still entertaining this nonsense? Boneyard, you deserve credit for giving credibility to a kooky liberal conspiracy theory instead of the usual right wing kooky conspiracy theories you throw around, but isn't it about time you started using more credible information sources?

Can you give me ONE reason why these pages shouldn't be de-classified? Do you think it is proper to classify material merely because it is "embarrassing" to politicians? If Bush did know about 911 in advance and let it happen, wouldn't you want to know about it?

As for the source, I know nothing about it besides its title, but it can't be any worse than a source from the mainstream media. They always get it wrong. Usually they are wrong, or seriously distort the facts. But even if they do get the facts right, they will invariably give it a nonsensical spin.

Put simply, when it comes to both government and the media, we are being lied to all the time.

So it wouldn't surprise me to learn that the rumors regarding the redacted pages are absolutely true.

 

[boneyard bill]

I think that Loren has it right, the only thing that I would add is the obvious fact that Saudi Arabia is a kingdom with a large, very wealthy royal family, any one of the members could have financed the entire operation out of their petty cash, even without realizing the true nature of the people that they were giving money to.

The government of Saudi Arabia didn't have to be involved for it to appear that the country of Saudi Arabia was involved.

Assuming that the FBI has the correct identity of the high-jackers (a dubious assumption since some of them are apparently still alive), then 15 of the 19 high-jackers were from Saudi Arabia. We also know that bin Laden was a Saudi. So we KNOW that the country of Saudi Arabia was involved. So such a development would hardly make the redactions "shocking." I think the reference is almost certainly to the government of Saudi Arabia.

 

[boneyard bill]

Cong. Jones, who has read the report, says he was "shocked" by what he found. Cong. Lynch agreed.

Leaked information on the report claims that it discusses the involvement of a foreign government in the 911 attacks. That government is Saudi Arabia.

Can't be that secret if your run of the mill congressman can read it.

Saudi Arabia involved...as in Bin Laden and his entire family being Saudi Arabian? That kinda covers a lot of ground.

Which is why we need the entire report to be released. Rumors and reports aren't sufficient to answer the questions.

 

[boneyard bill]

If it's not that secret then it should be released to the public.

Exactly.

Something tells me that what it pertains to is not what this congressman says it does.

Jones hasn't said what it pertains to. That part is classified. He only said it contained shocking information, and that it would be an embarrassment to the Bush Administration. The claim that it involves Saudi Arabia and Bush foreknowledge are just rumors.

 

[boneyard bill]

Oh look! More 9/11 conspiracy theories!

To be fair this is a lot more tame than most "conspiracy theories".

The official story is a conspiracy theory. A conspiracy is two or more people acting together to violate the law.

The 28 pages is only one example of the government refusing to release information which has no apparent reason to be classified. As long as they're doing this, there will be "conspiracy theories."

 

[boneyard bill]

So then you know absolutely what happened there? Is that type of knowledge only available to conservolibertarians? Is it okay to call an honest accounting of what happened "nonsense" in the interest of protecting state secrets? I agree it is a tangled web of lies but cannot discount the physical fact that the twin towers and building seven bore a very strong resemblance to a controlled demolition. Admit it...that was just plain weird.

It's only weird if you've been reading conspiracy pages.

I know, I know. Those of us who listened to the experts have been duped by "them."

Isn't that the appeal of conspiracy theories? All evidence supports your claims, even the contrary evidence, because you can always just explain it away with "That's just what they want you to think!!!!!!!!!"

Which "experts" do you want to listen to? There are lots of experts who have testified to the opposite of the official claims. Did those planes really fly into the WTC at 550 miles per hour? Impossible, many experts claim. A 757 simply can't fly that fast as sea level and if it could it would break apart long before it reached that speed. So maybe the 911 Commission experts just made a mistake about the speed. But that issue should be ironed out in any case.

And remember that the 911 Commissioners themselves said that they didn't have enough money, enough time, enough authority, or enough cooperation to do a proper job of investigation. So may those "experts" that you choose to listen to (and remember, it IS your choice to decide which experts to believe) really didn't do a very good job given the time constraints that they were operating under.

In the end, you have decide who makes the most sense and not just listen to those guys that the authorities or the media tell you that you should believe.

What about the Bush/Cheney testimony? They insisted on testifying together. The testimony had to be in private and not under oat. They refuse to be taped and refused to allow anyone to take notes. Does that sound like a couple of guys who might have something to hide? It sure does to me. So I wouldn't be at all surprised if the 28 redacted pages include things that are shocking and embarrassing to the Bush Administration.

 

[boneyard bill]

Best we not upset the Saudi's (even if they do fund Jihadi's)
Saudi Arabia, 9/11 and the Rise of ISIS

The rise of the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (Isis) has been aided by the continuing failure of the US Government to investigate the role of Saudi Arabia in the 9/11 attacks and its support of jihadi movements such as al-Qaeda in the years since, says former Senator Bob Graham, the co-chairman of the official inquiry into 9/11.

Senator Graham, who chaired the Senate Intelligence Committee, said that successive administrations in Washington had turned a blind eye to Saudi support for Sunni extremists. He added: “I believe that the failure to shine a full light on Saudi actions and particularly its involvement in 9/11 has contributed to the Saudi ability to continue to engage in actions that are damaging to the US – and in particular their support for Isis.”

What? Are you unpatriotic? Do you really believe anything this idiotic "conspiracy theorist" has to say? He's obviously being paid off by the GOP to raise suspicions about Bush being a liar which we all know perfectly well is just not true. Bush would NEVER lie to the American people.

There really were WMD's in Iraq. But at the last minute Saddam Hussein had them buried underneath the mass graves of civilians in Kosovo which disappeared because the Clinton Administration didn't want the inspectors to find them and reveal that he was telling the truth.

You conspiracy theorists of just a bunch of nut-cakes.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Oh look! More 9/11 conspiracy theories!

Wheeeeeee!

Are we seriously still entertaining this nonsense? Boneyard, you deserve credit for giving credibility to a kooky liberal conspiracy theory instead of the usual right wing kooky conspiracy theories you throw around, but isn't it about time you started using more credible information sources?

Can you give me ONE reason why these pages shouldn't be de-classified? Do you think it is proper to classify material merely because it is "embarrassing" to politicians? If Bush did know about 911 in advance and let it happen, wouldn't you want to know about it?

As for the source, I know nothing about it besides its title, but it can't be any worse than a source from the mainstream media. They always get it wrong. Usually they are wrong, or seriously distort the facts. But even if they do get the facts right, they will invariably give it a nonsensical spin.

Put simply, when it comes to both government and the media, we are being lied to all the time.

So it wouldn't surprise me to learn that the rumors regarding the redacted pages are absolutely true.

And how are we supposed to judge if the pages contain information that needs to remain classified or not? Note that you can not figure this out simply by reading them--sometimes the important information is that we knew the bit of information in the first place.

(Lets say you have a report that says "Bin Laden likes donuts for breakfast". Anything secret about that? Hell, yes--that we have a source close enough to report what he eats.)

- - - Updated - - -

I think that Loren has it right, the only thing that I would add is the obvious fact that Saudi Arabia is a kingdom with a large, very wealthy royal family, any one of the members could have financed the entire operation out of their petty cash, even without realizing the true nature of the people that they were giving money to.

The government of Saudi Arabia didn't have to be involved for it to appear that the country of Saudi Arabia was involved.

Assuming that the FBI has the correct identity of the high-jackers (a dubious assumption since some of them are apparently still alive), then 15 of the 19 high-jackers were from Saudi Arabia. We also know that bin Laden was a Saudi. So we KNOW that the country of Saudi Arabia was involved. So such a development would hardly make the redactions "shocking." I think the reference is almost certainly to the government of Saudi Arabia.

Some of the hijackers were on stolen identities because their real identities were flagged and wouldn't have gotten into the US. Nothing happened to the people whose identities were stolen--thus your "alive" hijackers.

 

[credoconsolans]

Exactly.

Something tells me that what it pertains to is not what this congressman says it does.

Jones hasn't said what it pertains to. That part is classified. He only said it contained shocking information, and that it would be an embarrassment to the Bush Administration. The claim that it involves Saudi Arabia and Bush foreknowledge are just rumors.

OK.

"Shocking" to whom, though?

And 'an embarrassment to the Bush Administration'? Isn't 9/11 already an embarrassment to the Bush Administration?

 

[BH]

Mr. Pechtal said:

Some of the hijackers were on stolen identities because their real identities were flagged and wouldn't have gotten into the US. Nothing happened to the people whose identities were stolen--thus your "alive" hijackers.

Did we ever find out who the real ones were then?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Mr. Pechtal said:

Some of the hijackers were on stolen identities because their real identities were flagged and wouldn't have gotten into the US. Nothing happened to the people whose identities were stolen--thus your "alive" hijackers.

Did we ever find out who the real ones were then?

AFIAK we identified them--they were already known to us as bad guys but the border screening doesn't give the level of scrutiny needed to figure out that they were on stolen identities. (Note: This is one reason foreigners are subject to biometrics at immigration these days. It's not perfect but it's better than it was before.)

 

[Mumbles]

Jones hasn't said what it pertains to. That part is classified. He only said it contained shocking information, and that it would be an embarrassment to the Bush Administration. The claim that it involves Saudi Arabia and Bush foreknowledge are just rumors.

OK.

"Shocking" to whom, though?

And 'an embarrassment to the Bush Administration'? Isn't 9/11 already an embarrassment to the Bush Administration?

Actually, no.

I'm confused as to why the Obama admin would worry about GWB's reputation. But these conspiracies...are often less than many people think. And I agree that info should be free when possible. But sometimes, that ideal is not actualized. Sometimes it takes work...and what you get is seldom what you think it will be. It's usually far more pragmatic, and far less grandiose.

...and I'm out.

 

[Unbeatable]

Cong. Walter Jones (R. N.C.) and Rep. Steven Lynch (D. Ma.) have co-sponsored a resolution seeking release of 28 pages from the 911 Commission Report that were redacted from the original report and classified by the Bush Administration. Cong. Jones, who has read the report, says he was "shocked" by what he found. Cong. Lynch agreed.

Leaked information on the report claims that it discusses the involvement of a foreign government in the 911 attacks. That government is Saudi Arabia.

So this is a sarcastic "shocked", right?

 

[boneyard bill]

Can you give me ONE reason why these pages shouldn't be de-classified? Do you think it is proper to classify material merely because it is "embarrassing" to politicians? If Bush did know about 911 in advance and let it happen, wouldn't you want to know about it?

As for the source, I know nothing about it besides its title, but it can't be any worse than a source from the mainstream media. They always get it wrong. Usually they are wrong, or seriously distort the facts. But even if they do get the facts right, they will invariably give it a nonsensical spin.

Put simply, when it comes to both government and the media, we are being lied to all the time.

So it wouldn't surprise me to learn that the rumors regarding the redacted pages are absolutely true.

And how are we supposed to judge if the pages contain information that needs to remain classified or not? Note that you can not figure this out simply by reading them--sometimes the important information is that we knew the bit of information in the first place.

(Lets say you have a report that says "Bin Laden likes donuts for breakfast". Anything secret about that? Hell, yes--that we have a source close enough to report what he eats.)

- - - Updated - - -

I think that Loren has it right, the only thing that I would add is the obvious fact that Saudi Arabia is a kingdom with a large, very wealthy royal family, any one of the members could have financed the entire operation out of their petty cash, even without realizing the true nature of the people that they were giving money to.

The government of Saudi Arabia didn't have to be involved for it to appear that the country of Saudi Arabia was involved.

Assuming that the FBI has the correct identity of the high-jackers (a dubious assumption since some of them are apparently still alive), then 15 of the 19 high-jackers were from Saudi Arabia. We also know that bin Laden was a Saudi. So we KNOW that the country of Saudi Arabia was involved. So such a development would hardly make the redactions "shocking." I think the reference is almost certainly to the government of Saudi Arabia.

Some of the hijackers were on stolen identities because their real identities were flagged and wouldn't have gotten into the US. Nothing happened to the people whose identities were stolen--thus your "alive" hijackers.

Many people have read the report and said there is nothing in it that jeopardizes national security. I would like to think that we actually have objective standards for determining what can be properly classified and what cannot. Unfortunately, it doesn't look like we do so the bureaucrats can classify anything they damn well feel like. So if Obama is torturing babies, apparently we wouldn't be allowed to know that because he insists on classifying it.

 

[boneyard bill]

Jones hasn't said what it pertains to. That part is classified. He only said it contained shocking information, and that it would be an embarrassment to the Bush Administration. The claim that it involves Saudi Arabia and Bush foreknowledge are just rumors.

OK.

"Shocking" to whom, though?

And 'an embarrassment to the Bush Administration'? Isn't 9/11 already an embarrassment to the Bush Administration?

Apparently not. The intelligence community failed us entire. NORAD failed us entirely. This administration couldn't even defend the Pentagon, the most highly guarded building in the world, from a Boeing 757 flown by a third-rate pilot. And yet we're not allowed to hear his testimony before the 911 Commission, and yet he is hailed as the savior of the country because he failed to get bin Laden even though we knew that he was holed up in an elaborate cave air-conditioned cave structure in Afghanistan which, it turns out, doesn't exist. But he saved us because he took us into Iraq to capture non-existent weapons of mass destruction which he also lied about. Why should we believe any thing he says about 911?

 

[boneyard bill]

Mr. Pechtal said:

Some of the hijackers were on stolen identities because their real identities were flagged and wouldn't have gotten into the US. Nothing happened to the people whose identities were stolen--thus your "alive" hijackers.

Did we ever find out who the real ones were then?

Last I heard, the FBI was still listing the alive "hi-jackers" as part of the suicide terrorists.