No. Those items exist to help the police deal with people who won't obey but aren't violent. They're for dragging the guy off to jail, not to disarm him.
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3 brave officers disarm 17 year old girl by shooting her to death
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No. Those items exist to help the police deal with people who won't obey but aren't violent. They're for dragging the guy off to jail, not to disarm him.
Nice Squirrel
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That is correct. Police no longer use the term, "drop the weapon". They must shoot to kill.
laughing dog
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You have a source for that claim? I ask, because this would news to a number of police officers in my area.
Wait, what? We're using pepper spray and tasers on people who are NOT violent? Because just dragging them to jail is no fun or something? So we need to make them scream or convulse to get our money's worth?
Do you listen to yourself?
arkirk
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Watch the popular cop shows and they often have their heroes in blue "at the shooting range." I have never seen an episode where they are training with non lethal weapons. What Loren is trying to say is they are reserved for non-violent protesters and people who are intoxicated and people who they wake up in their own beds...though in real life, the cops inadvertently blow a few of these away too. Actually, it is the trained in mentality of the cops that brings death to numerous black and brown people.
In my short, sweet civilian life, I have disarmed a woman of a knife without weapons. Even if she was a seasoned knife fighter, this gal was outnumbered 3 to 1 and I am sure there was no excuse for killing her other than the boss's excusing the boys. That precisely is why this story is NEWS...THE COWARDICE OF THREE COPS TRAINED TO DEAL WITH SITUATIONS LIKE THAT. The question I ask is why they didn't do their job, preferring instead manslaughter sanitized by their bosses.
prideandfall
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why would they they need to?
there are plenty of people in this country like LP who are possessed of a fervent and sycophantic True Belief that cops can do no wrong, that whoever they murder deserved it, and that anyone who questions the police in any capacity are Amurrika hating commies.
the liklihood of one of those ilk ending up on a jury is high, so ultimately in the court of public opinion and in the court of law the cops always have unshakeable defenders unswayed by evidence, context, or decency who will ensure they suffer nary a consequence for their actions no matter how grievous.
what need have they for concern for their position, or in defending themselves?
If the person isn't violent why would you need any weapons at all?
And how are they not designed to disarm people?
Batons to increase an officers reach and hitting power, Pepper Spray to blind and cause pain to a person so they can't fight, Tazers to paralyse heck can we add Rubber Bullets and Bean Bag Rounds to this?
All would have been better then shooting
There are fewer injuries amongst the police and suspects if the cops use things like tasers rather than simple force. All the non-lethal tools are unpleasant but are less likely to result in any lasting harm--in the days before they were used there were more deaths from resisting arrest than there are now.
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You were lucky, then. It can very easily go badly.
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If you have time you can sometimes do this. If it goes down suddenly you can't.
Jimmy Higgins
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She is dead. It doesn't get much worse than that. Unless you think she could have killed three officers and got away. *sits by and waits for tireless anecdote*
Stop with you bullshit. That is not how it works.
lpetrich
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I don't know where that number comes from.
But the point is correct about how those who claim to favor "small government" nevertheless often want more government in the form of cops shooting people that they dislike. Much like many opponents of abortion and supporters of military adventures.
Well we finally can look at the video.
http://www.kpho.com/story/27964641/...-officer-involved-shooting-teen#ixzz3QAohtp2t
I am not sure what to think of this at this point. The key thing is, one of the officers DID subdue her, but somehow she ended up released (I am not sure if he released her, or if she was actually able to struggle free since the video is cut there). The officer apparently did use a taser to no effect. At the point she lunges, the cops really don't have a choice anymore.
However, it should never have come to that. The cop had her on the ground! How or why was she able to get free and back on her feet?
http://www.kpho.com/story/27964641/...-officer-involved-shooting-teen#ixzz3QAohtp2t
I am not sure what to think of this at this point. The key thing is, one of the officers DID subdue her, but somehow she ended up released (I am not sure if he released her, or if she was actually able to struggle free since the video is cut there). The officer apparently did use a taser to no effect. At the point she lunges, the cops really don't have a choice anymore.
However, it should never have come to that. The cop had her on the ground! How or why was she able to get free and back on her feet?
Jimmy Higgins
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It seems like a large number, but this latest shooting had an article indicating there were two other questionable police involved deaths for that department alone!
laughing dog
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Notice LP does not provide a source to back his claims up. If history is a reliable guide in these instances, that means his claims about reality reflect his views not reality.
Jimmy Higgins
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Well, I like how he stated that these things can go down badly... referring to an incident where a teenage girl was killed, which apparently isn't the event going down badly.
Mageth
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The video was clipped for the news broadcast. This has more details, but ends when the girl lunges...but there are some captioned still images below the video...
http://www.kpho.com/clip/11078850/surveillance-moments-leading-up-to-teens-death
Thanks!
I wish it had better resolution, but my main conclusion would be, that first cop screwed up royally by not cuffing her when she was on the ground. If she was struggling so much she could avoid cuffing, at the very least he should have stayed on top of her (in close quarters with someone who has a knife, probably the safest place to be).
A much higher resolution video than the one from the news (Warning! This version of the video actually shows her getting shot, so if you don't want to see that, stop it at around 11:08):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGIS1Knpvs0
Based on the news reporting this is what seems to have happened:
1. She indicates she has a gun.
2. Officer Derr attempts to restrain her. He eventually tackles her to the ground. At this point he realizes that while she doesn't have a gun, she does have a large butchers knife.
3. Officer Derr gets off her, putting a little distance between them, and bringing his weapon to bear.
4. Other officers arrive.
5. She rushes Derr, one of the officers fired his stun gun (claims it is ineffective), the other two open fire.
I think the key to this tragedy is point 3. Officer Derr made a serious mistake releasing her when he realized she had a close range weapon. He was in a position that would make it incredibly difficult for her to use it on him, and his retreat only put him in more danger. In other words, even if he felt he had to maintain his distance, the distance he chose was far too short. He was in much more danger now than he was on top of her. Then, when she rushed Derr, Officer Duffie used his stun gun. Now here I call bullshit on the report. Her rushing, Duffie stun gunning her, and the other officers opening fire all took place in the span of about 1 second. There is no way in hell the cops could tell the stun gun "didn't work". For all intents and purposes, they opened fire with the stun gun and their sidearms at the same time. This goes back to Officer Derr's mistake. I don't fault the officers who fired their guns in that moment, but if Derr had either stayed on top of her, or retreated to a further distance, this whole thing could have been avoided. If he had retreated farther, they wouldn't have only had a split second to react to her charge (or she might not have tried to charge).
Overall my conclusion remains unchanged from the less clear video: Officer Derr really screwed up his handling of this, and that lead directly to the situation where they were forced to open fire.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGIS1Knpvs0
Based on the news reporting this is what seems to have happened:
1. She indicates she has a gun.
2. Officer Derr attempts to restrain her. He eventually tackles her to the ground. At this point he realizes that while she doesn't have a gun, she does have a large butchers knife.
3. Officer Derr gets off her, putting a little distance between them, and bringing his weapon to bear.
4. Other officers arrive.
5. She rushes Derr, one of the officers fired his stun gun (claims it is ineffective), the other two open fire.
I think the key to this tragedy is point 3. Officer Derr made a serious mistake releasing her when he realized she had a close range weapon. He was in a position that would make it incredibly difficult for her to use it on him, and his retreat only put him in more danger. In other words, even if he felt he had to maintain his distance, the distance he chose was far too short. He was in much more danger now than he was on top of her. Then, when she rushed Derr, Officer Duffie used his stun gun. Now here I call bullshit on the report. Her rushing, Duffie stun gunning her, and the other officers opening fire all took place in the span of about 1 second. There is no way in hell the cops could tell the stun gun "didn't work". For all intents and purposes, they opened fire with the stun gun and their sidearms at the same time. This goes back to Officer Derr's mistake. I don't fault the officers who fired their guns in that moment, but if Derr had either stayed on top of her, or retreated to a further distance, this whole thing could have been avoided. If he had retreated farther, they wouldn't have only had a split second to react to her charge (or she might not have tried to charge).
Overall my conclusion remains unchanged from the less clear video: Officer Derr really screwed up his handling of this, and that lead directly to the situation where they were forced to open fire.
fromderinside
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Solution. Train cops to knee cap like the red guard did in the 80s. Don't you want to see perps suffer?