30 people shot in mass shooting

[Derec]

Fail.

[citation needed] that the shooters in Baltimore used an AR15.
Or is this really a fail of your reading comprehension and a failure to distinguish between the Bawlmer and Philly shootings?

Also it's a fact, not a "fail" that rifles of all types, including AR15s, are rarely used in crime compared with handguns.

 

[Derec]

Another fail.
[a bunch of unsourced alleged screen caps]

I posted a news article about Kimcardy. Where did you get these alleged screen caps and what is their provenance?

 

[Derec]

Are you suggesting that had the Virginia Tech shooter opted for an AR-15 instead of handguns, the resulting casualties would have been fewer?

Not quite. I was saying that handguns are perfectly adequate weapons to get a high body count in a mass shooting.
Whether an AR15 would have changed the number of casualties/fatalities substantially is uncertain. It could well be that it would have led to fewer though. AR15s have a greater firepower, but utility of that in close quarters is limited - dead is dead whether hit by a 9x19mm Parabellum vs a .223R/5.56x39mm NATO. Greater accurate range is also not a benefit in close quarters. On the negative side, rifles are heavier and less wieldy than handguns, which is a plus for the latter when indoors. Handguns can also be easily concealed unlike rifles. It is possible that he would have been spotted with a rifle by a cop before he reached his destination. Or at least somebody who would have called 911 ensuring cops would get there sooner.
So both handguns and rifles have pros and cons, but I think in a situation like VT, handguns have the advantage.

 

[blastula]

Fail.

[citation needed] that the shooters in Baltimore used an AR15.
Or is this really a fail of your reading comprehension and a failure to distinguish between the Bawlmer and Philly shootings?

Yeah, I was reading later posts about Philly.

Also it's a fact, not a "fail" that rifles of all types, including AR15s, are rarely used in crime compared with handguns.

No, they're not rare when there are 30 victims.

 

[blastula]

Another fail.
[a bunch of unsourced alleged screen caps]

I posted a news article about Kimcardy.

What's the cringe basis for this name?

Where did you get these alleged screen caps and what is their provenance?

Provenance is such a big word for you. As if NY Post is reputable.

I got them off The Dark Web.

 

[Derec]

Yeah, I was reading later posts about Philly.

No, they're not rare when there are 30 victims.

You are still not reading very carefully. It was the Baltimore shooting that had 30 victims (28 wounded, 2 fatalities). The Philly shooting (with the AR15 and handgun) had 5 dead and 2 wounded.

In any case, I was referring not to any individual incident but to crime stats as a whole. Rifles (of which so-called "assault weapons" are just a subset) are used in homicides far less frequently than good old handguns.

 

[Derec]

What's the cringe basis for this name?

Honest mistake. I should have written Kimbrady Carriker.

Provenance is such a big word for you.

Are you Asuelu? Or Kevin? When you president, they see.

As if NY Post is reputable.

More reputable than many of the sources used here. And infinitely more reputable than unsourced screencaps purportedly from the Dark Web. Damn, here I go again, using those expensive words ...

 

[Derec]

To go back to the original Bawlmer shooting, they caught somebody.
Teen arrested in connection with Baltimore shooting that killed 2, injured 28

17 years old. He hasn't been charged with the shooting itself. Unclear whether that means that he wasn't a shooter, or just that they filed preliminary charges to hold him until they build a case on murder and attempted murder charges.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Are you suggesting that had the Virginia Tech shooter opted for an AR-15 instead of handguns, the resulting casualties would have been fewer?

Not quite. I was saying that handguns are perfectly adequate weapons to get a high body count in a mass shooting.
Whether an AR15 would have changed the number of casualties/fatalities substantially is uncertain. It could well be that it would have led to fewer though. AR15s have a greater firepower, but utility of that in close quarters is limited - dead is dead whether hit by a 9x19mm Parabellum vs a .223R/5.56x39mm NATO. Greater accurate range is also not a benefit in close quarters. On the negative side, rifles are heavier and less wieldy than handguns, which is a plus for the latter when indoors. Handguns can also be easily concealed unlike rifles. It is possible that he would have been spotted with a rifle by a cop before he reached his destination. Or at least somebody who would have called 911 ensuring cops would get there sooner.
So both handguns and rifles have pros and cons, but I think in a situation like VT, handguns have the advantage.

And in close quarters rifles are far easier to be tackled. (I won't really say disarmed, but rather grabbed so that nobody can use it.)

 

[JohnG]

Now you guys are stuck with the 2nd amendment. The US could technically get rid of it, but it has no desire to. Guns are just as ingrained in US culture as Christianity is.

It's not just the lack of desire, although vast majority is against repealing the 2nd.
It's also that in the US, it is very difficult to amend the Constitution. You need 2/3 of both chambers of Congress and 3/4 of all states must ratify it.
I do not know what the Canuck constitution amendment process is like.

It's not about removing it - but understanding that it is very unlikely that your founders envisioned citizens going shopping for groceries with a military grade firearm slung on their backside.

Aside to being a very 3rd world thing, it gets a lot of people killed.

 

[Elixir]

I’m wondering exactly HOW Derec became a surpassing expert on all things guns. I see his talking points widely repeated in RW media but no real stats on, for instance, the frequency and definition of close range mass murders - if such things even occur regularly. I find his implication that the Austin or Las Vegas shooters would have piled up the same or higher body counts with handguns particularly ludicrous.
Considering the trouble he had sorting out his .22LR/.223 confusion at the outset of these discussions, one has to be amazed at his rapid ascent to PhD/expert status. Or, maybe more reasonably, consider the source when reading BS like that.

That said, it is true that AR15s and AK47s are not the problem, even if they are the terror weapons of choice by RW terrorists that represent the greatest existential threat to American democracy. The “problem” in America is the hundreds and hundreds of millions of firearms in private circulation. At this point only some very restrictive and well enforced laws can help the situation, and the Republican Party will have none of that, being in the NRA’s Ruble-lined pocket.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I’m wondering exactly HOW Derec became a surpassing expert on all things guns. I see his talking points widely repeated in RW media but no real stats on, for instance, the frequency and definition of close range mass murders - if such things even occur regularly. I find his implication that the Austin or Las Vegas shooters would have piled up the same or higher body counts with handguns particularly ludicrous.
Considering the trouble he had sorting out his .22LR/.223 confusion at the outset of these discussions, one has to be amazed at his rapid ascent to PhD/expert status. Or, maybe more reasonably, consider the source when reading BS like that.

Las Vegas is a major outlier amongst mass shootings. He was a guy who actually did some intelligent planning, unlike most who do a lot of fantasizing about how it will go down but little meaningful planning.

That said, it is true that AR15s and AK47s are not the problem, even if they are the terror weapons of choice by RW terrorists that represent the greatest existential threat to American democracy. The “problem” in America is the hundreds and hundreds of millions of firearms in private circulation. At this point only some very restrictive and well enforced laws can help the situation, and the Republican Party will have none of that, being in the NRA’s Ruble-lined pocket.

Except any such measure is going to far more disarm the law abiding than the criminal. Thus it will be of little benefit and likely even harmful as it will embolden criminals.