440 less suicide bombers to worry about!

[barbos]

They are doing this because they believe it is s good thing to do. They are not risking their lives to be evil.

What about Al-Qaeda?

 

[Derec]

What about Al-Qaeda?

... uhm ... I mean it refers to any terrorists.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Each of these people were individuals.

Who knows what was in the heart of any of them? Who knows what brought them to that place?

Who knows how many were medical personnel or other noncombatants?

Just pawns caught up in insanity anyway.

Nothing for any decent human being to be happy about.

Anything to defend those who oppose the US.

Look at the brutality of ISIS. Anyone who supports their actions is vile even if they aren't direct combatants.

- - - Updated - - -

ISIS and its ideology are no secret. You join, you know damn well what you're doing.

All is so simple from the wild confines of the basement.

But the propaganda on the other side of the earth is not the same as it is in the US.

ISIS brags about it's evil. This isn't an issue of propaganda.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Only decent human beings that understand the contingencies of life we are all trapped in.

- - - Updated - - -

Each of these people were individuals.

Who knows what was in the heart of any of them? Who knows what brought them to that place?

Who knows how many were medical personnel or other noncombatants?

Just pawns caught up in insanity anyway.

Nothing for any decent human being to be happy about.

My thread was kinda tonge in cheek. But Jihadist medical personnel? You've got to be kidding? What would their role be? To catch the heads after they are chopped off to prevent the spreading of germs?

To dehumanize these people is understandable.

It is what those wanting to kill people they have never met do.

Buddy, they don't need my help in dehumanizing themselves!! When you deliberately target and blow up civilians, you're not human.

These people that were killed did that?

And even a suicide bomber is a human.

They have a story and some reason for their madness.

What are you trying to say? How should we deal with them?

They are an international problem.

A problem for the UN.

But not a problem for the SC with the contributors to the problem having a veto.

The UN has no power to actually do anything about groups like ISIS. They're only going to be stopped with firepower--something the UN has none of.

- - - Updated - - -

Countries the West have armed, such as Saudi Arabia, which has 700 war planes and a whole arsenal of modern weaponry, should be involved as it is in its area. However it has done nothing. The Western allies created a vacuum for ISIS and Al Qaeda to flourish.

Saudi Arabia likes the spread of fundamentalist Islam, at least of their flavor.

Wrong flavor, though--look at Yemen.

 

[laughing dog]

Only people already filled with murderous hate would seek to avenge their deaths. So, killing them won't unleash anything that isn't already unleashed, whereas not killing them would be certain to lead to many deaths of others.

Murderous hate does not arise spontaneously - it is induced by perceptions and actions.

The net amount of violence and killing (especially of those not seeking to kill others) has been reduced by their deaths. This is the basic fact that the cowardly selfishness of dogmatic pacifism ignores.

For now that is true. You can have no idea what the long-run consequences are. That myopia is prominent in the arrogance of neoconservative chickenhawk policy in the Middle East and Afghanistan.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

What could the UN do? Protesting isn't going to stop any beheadings.

That is why the UN was created.

To deal with international conflicts.

It can anything it decides, up to sending in an army.

1) It has no army. "UN" forces always come from member nations and usually are pretty low quality.

2) They're still going to do pretty much the same thing, just doing a worse job of it.

- - - Updated - - -

That is why the UN was created.

To deal with international conflicts.

It can anything it decides, up to sending in an army.

So you're okay with the UN sending in troops but not a coalation? What's the difference?

In his book the US can't do good. Thus our dealing with ISIS must be bad.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

What garbage. They target civilians and anyone else who doesn't believe exactly as they do for death. We do not.

I'm sure that consoles the families of the collaterally civilian dead.

This was a convoy on a highway. It's unlikely there are any civilian dead.

 

[laughing dog]

I'm sure that consoles the families of the collaterally civilian dead.

This was a convoy on a highway. It's unlikely there are any civilian dead.

Congratulations on ignoring the context and the point: intent is irrelevant to the families of the victims.

 

[untermensche]

Anything to defend those who oppose the US.

Look at the brutality of ISIS. Anyone who supports their actions is vile even if they aren't direct combatants.

Anybody who cheers the deaths of people they never met is disturbed.

Most people in ISIS are no different from people in our own military.

Pawns thinking they are defending their way of life.

 

[Derec]

Most people in ISIS are no different from people in our own military.

You are full of shit Unter.

 

[ZiprHead]

Anything to defend those who oppose the US.

Look at the brutality of ISIS. Anyone who supports their actions is vile even if they aren't direct combatants.

Anybody who cheers the deaths of people they never met is disturbed.

Most people in ISIS are no different from people in our own military.

Pawns thinking they are defending their way of life.

Fuck the murderous bastards.

 

[untermensche]

Anybody who cheers the deaths of people they never met is disturbed.

Most people in ISIS are no different from people in our own military.

Pawns thinking they are defending their way of life.

Fuck the murderous bastards.

Fuck all murderous bastards.

Even those in suits and ties in Washington.

But to cheer the deaths of a few pawns caught up in something bigger than themselves is inhuman.

 

[ronburgundy]

Fuck the murderous bastards.

Fuck all murderous bastards.

Even those in suits and ties in Washington.

But to cheer the deaths of a few pawns caught up in something bigger than themselves is inhuman.

Those "pawns" were as murdererous as a murderous bastard could be, and they would have murdered many more had they not been killed. Cheering their deaths is merely cheering the many innocent lives saved. One has to be inhuman, not to view that as a positive compared to the alternative.
They were people who had options but chose to murder people (including kids) who played no meaningful role in doing anything that impacted the lives of these ISIS soldiers.
They were morally on par with a man who slits the throats of children as an act of vengeance against those who care for those children.
Their deaths are equal to if the leaders of a Nazi death camp were killed allowing their victims within that camp to escape. It is most positively human and moral to feel positive about that, regardless of the context that led those Nazis to behave that way.

 

[Juma]

Most people in ISIS are no different from people in our own military.

You are full of shit Unter.

No. Your are just blinding yourself. Of ciurse the lives of the enemy doesnt matter. And that is true of both sides.

 

[ronburgundy]

Murderous hate does not arise spontaneously - it is induced by perceptions and actions.

No human not already disposed towards supporting or engaging in murderous hate would perceive the deaths of these ISIS members as anything but just and neccessary for human decency. Thus, their deaths would not make any person who isn't already so disposed any more disposed. It's analogous to a match being thrown into an inferno, no impact.

The net amount of violence and killing (especially of those not seeking to kill others) has been reduced by their deaths. This is the basic fact that the cowardly selfishness of dogmatic pacifism ignores.

For now that is true. You can have no idea what the long-run consequences are.

Yes, all remotely rational people with any grasp of human psychology can have a good idea what the long-run consequnces are.
This is not on par with the invasion of Iraq, which was sure to evoke rage and a sense of injustice even among reasonable and good people. All remotely decent humans that aren't already a major violent threat would view these deaths as justified and neccessary, despite any sympathy they may have for young Muslims getting caught up in ISIS propaganda. Only someone without any regard for lives these people have already took and would have taken would feel otherwise.
Thus, their death would have almost no impact on causing violence by those who would not have done so anyway.

 

[untermensche]

Most people in ISIS are no different from people in our own military.

You are full of shit Unter.

That's a tiny part of ISIS.

It's like saying the entire US military is the same as Abu Ghraib.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Ya, there's also the part that does sex slavery, the part that organizes attacks on defenceless civilians, the part that destroys priceless ancient monuments, etc. There are lots of parts to the organization.

 

[untermensche]

Ya, there's also the part that does sex slavery, the part that organizes attacks on defenceless civilians, the part that destroys priceless ancient monuments, etc. There are lots of parts to the organization.

That is what folks exposed to only the propaganda of the West know about.

The propaganda on the other side is that Islam is under attack and Uncle Mohamed Needs You.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Ya, there's also the part that does sex slavery, the part that organizes attacks on defenceless civilians, the part that destroys priceless ancient monuments, etc. There are lots of parts to the organization.

That is what folks exposed to only the propaganda of the West know about.

The propaganda on the other side is that Islam is under attack and Uncle Mohamed Needs You.

So what are we suppose to do? Send in UN Psychologists to reform them? It's shocking that anyone can defend the actions committed by ISIS. America is evil. Fine. But that is no reason to defend ISIS....

 

[J842P]

That is what folks exposed to only the propaganda of the West know about.

The propaganda on the other side is that Islam is under attack and Uncle Mohamed Needs You.

So what are we suppose to do? Send in UN Psychologists to reform them? It's shocking that anyone can defend the actions committed by ISIS. America is evil. Fine. But that is no reason to defend ISIS....

He is pointing out that cheering for the deaths of these people is unsavory, regardless of whether or not you think it is necessary. Given your propensity for said cheer-leading, you'd likely be one of those ISIS members if you had been raised in their culture and fed their propaganda. There's a reason why being so happy over carnage is usually seen as disturbing by descent people, regardless of how necessary that carnage might be.