6:00pm Curfew for men

[DrZoidberg]

As is pointed out elsewhere in this thread, most women know their attackers. Given that rape victims can be male or female, of any age, including infants and elderly persons, of any profession, including military and law enforcement and that assaults and murder can occur at any time of day, and given that despite the attempts to use clothing choices to discredit rape victims, a victim can be wearing anything at all, including flannel night gowns in their own beds or heavy winter coats and boots or grubby jeans and tshirts, it seems obvious that changing how one dresses does not affect ones chances of becoming the victim of an assault or murder. How one dresses and where one walks or how one behaves does very little or nothing to offer protection against rape.

What you are highlighting is the lack of rational arguments in this discussion. Nobody seems to care about actual crime patterns. We all seem fixated on what feels dangerous. Not what is dangerous. Now with Corona there's less dating in bars. Women are far more likely to have the first date in the man's home. Well, that's obviously what's going to happen if there's curfews of men. Minimal thinking about this comes to the conclusion that it'll only act to make it more dangerous for women. If they need to take more risks to get laid, they will.

 

[Toni]

As is pointed out elsewhere in this thread, most women know their attackers. Given that rape victims can be male or female, of any age, including infants and elderly persons, of any profession, including military and law enforcement and that assaults and murder can occur at any time of day, and given that despite the attempts to use clothing choices to discredit rape victims, a victim can be wearing anything at all, including flannel night gowns in their own beds or heavy winter coats and boots or grubby jeans and tshirts, it seems obvious that changing how one dresses does not affect ones chances of becoming the victim of an assault or murder. How one dresses and where one walks or how one behaves does very little or nothing to offer protection against rape.

What you are highlighting is the lack of rational arguments in this discussion. Nobody seems to care about actual crime patterns. We all seem fixated on what feels dangerous. Not what is dangerous. Now with Corona there's less dating in bars. Women are far more likely to have the first date in the man's home. Well, that's obviously what's going to happen if there's curfews of men. Minimal thinking about this comes to the conclusion that it'll only act to make it more dangerous for women. If they need to take more risks to get laid, they will.

Don't be silly. Dates can begin before 6 pm. They can take place in her home as well as his. Or in motels, whatever. She can leave when she's done with him or just kick him out and let the cops pick him up for violating curfew.

 

[Toni]

I was asking that Loren back up his claims of fact with actual data. Which he rarely does. I stated to say never but I'm sure there's some example of Loren actually linking a credible data source for some claim he makes or another.

Sorry if that is a difficult concept for you to understand.

Also, the table you posted does not back up Loren's claims. It DOES demonstrate that men are about 7 times as likely as women to be murder offenders.

No, no. Men are ARRESTED seven times more than women for murder.

So your link was meaningless?

91% of convicted murderers are male. Sorry this report is not presented in table form: https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/ascii/vfluc.txt

 

[DrZoidberg]

As is pointed out elsewhere in this thread, most women know their attackers. Given that rape victims can be male or female, of any age, including infants and elderly persons, of any profession, including military and law enforcement and that assaults and murder can occur at any time of day, and given that despite the attempts to use clothing choices to discredit rape victims, a victim can be wearing anything at all, including flannel night gowns in their own beds or heavy winter coats and boots or grubby jeans and tshirts, it seems obvious that changing how one dresses does not affect ones chances of becoming the victim of an assault or murder. How one dresses and where one walks or how one behaves does very little or nothing to offer protection against rape.

What you are highlighting is the lack of rational arguments in this discussion. Nobody seems to care about actual crime patterns. We all seem fixated on what feels dangerous. Not what is dangerous. Now with Corona there's less dating in bars. Women are far more likely to have the first date in the man's home. Well, that's obviously what's going to happen if there's curfews of men. Minimal thinking about this comes to the conclusion that it'll only act to make it more dangerous for women. If they need to take more risks to get laid, they will.

Don't be silly. Dates can begin before 6 pm. They can take place in her home as well as his. Or in motels, whatever. She can leave when she's done with him or just kick him out and let the cops pick him up for violating curfew.

Why would we get the desirable outcome? Do you think? I can't see it.

20 years ago the Swedish parliament changed the prostitution law. Selling sex was decriminalised. Buying sex was criminalised. The stated goal was to protect women who sell sex. Almost immediately lives got much more dangerous for Swedish prostitutes and violence against them increased. The law had the exact opposite effect than what was intended.

After being put into effect the political parties who pushed it through had so much political capital invested in this they refused to reverse the policy. They kept it. It's still in effect.

Laws often don't have the desired effect. They often look good on paper, but overlook something critical. I think this would be one of these.

 

[Toni]

Don't be silly. Dates can begin before 6 pm. They can take place in her home as well as his. Or in motels, whatever. She can leave when she's done with him or just kick him out and let the cops pick him up for violating curfew.

Why would we get the desirable outcome? Do you think? I can't see it.

20 years ago the Swedish parliament changed the prostitution law. Selling sex was decriminalised. Buying sex was criminalised. The stated goal was to protect women who sell sex. Almost immediately lives got much more dangerous for Swedish prostitutes and violence against them increased. The law had the exact opposite effect than what was intended.

After being put into effect the political parties who pushed it through had so much political capital invested in this they refused to reverse the policy. They kept it. It's still in effect.

Laws often don't have the desired effect. They often look good on paper, but overlook something critical. I think this would be one of these.

Are all Swedish prostitutes female?

Why do you believe women need men to protect them from other men?

 

[Trausti]

I was asking that Loren back up his claims of fact with actual data. Which he rarely does. I stated to say never but I'm sure there's some example of Loren actually linking a credible data source for some claim he makes or another.

Sorry if that is a difficult concept for you to understand.

Also, the table you posted does not back up Loren's claims. It DOES demonstrate that men are about 7 times as likely as women to be murder offenders.

No, no. Men are ARRESTED seven times more than women for murder.

So your link was meaningless?

91% of convicted murderers are male. Sorry this report is not presented in table form: https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/ascii/vfluc.txt

Yes. Men commit more violent crime than women. By a lot. And when you breakdown which men are committing the crime, there’s obvious patterns.

 

[Toni]

So your link was meaningless?

91% of convicted murderers are male. Sorry this report is not presented in table form: https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/ascii/vfluc.txt

Yes. Men commit more violent crime than women. By a lot. And when you breakdown which men are committing the crime, there’s obvious patterns.

One very obvious pattern is that most victims of violent crime know their attacker(s). The other pattern, as you pointed out, is that the vast overwhelming number of violent criminals are male. Which is, I believe, the reasoning behind the proposal in the OP for imposing a curfew on men.

 

[laughing dog]

So your link was meaningless?

91% of convicted murderers are male. Sorry this report is not presented in table form: https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/ascii/vfluc.txt

Yes. Men commit more violent crime than women. By a lot. And when you breakdown which men are committing the crime, there’s obvious patterns.

One very obvious pattern is that most victims of violent crime know their attacker(s). The other pattern, as you pointed out, is that the vast overwhelming number of violent criminals are male. Which is, I believe, the reasoning behind the proposal in the OP for imposing a curfew on men.

From a practical point of view, it makes perfect sense. Just like from a practical point of view, it may make sense to tell women to not go out after 6pm. Yet for some reason, the same people who suggest the latter have a conniption about the former. Hmmm.

 

[Gun Nut]

The Welsh gov't believes "trans women are women, trans men are men and non-binary identities are valid". I wonder if Wales has a system in mind to keep track of the current gender of the gender fluid? Perhaps a tracking app

because three is too high to count for you?

 

[Trausti]

So your link was meaningless?

91% of convicted murderers are male. Sorry this report is not presented in table form: https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/ascii/vfluc.txt

Yes. Men commit more violent crime than women. By a lot. And when you breakdown which men are committing the crime, there’s obvious patterns.

One very obvious pattern is that most victims of violent crime know their attacker(s). The other pattern, as you pointed out, is that the vast overwhelming number of violent criminals are male. Which is, I believe, the reasoning behind the proposal in the OP for imposing a curfew on men.

We might also, ya know, get serious about criminal justice. The UK has quite the reputation for coddling criminals, even for serious offenses. The irony being that this kid gloves approach to crime is likely the consequence of women being in politics and influencing policy.

 

[TSwizzle]

Surely the gender fluid would be men by day and Ex-Men by night.

maybe;

A married Conservative councillor has been suspended after dressing up as a woman on Facebook in protest against proposed a 6pm curfew for men after Sarah Everard's murder. Mark Deacon posted an image of himself in a floral pink dress and long black wig - saying it is how he would dress if a curfew were imposed.

DailyMail


The snowflakes had a meltdown.

 

[KeepTalking]

And then I get attacked when I call radical feminists like this woman "feminazis".

If they don't want to be compared to Nazis, maybe they should not be stealing their ideas.

Right, because the only curfews ever imposed anywhere were done by Nazis.

 

[Toni]

One very obvious pattern is that most victims of violent crime know their attacker(s). The other pattern, as you pointed out, is that the vast overwhelming number of violent criminals are male. Which is, I believe, the reasoning behind the proposal in the OP for imposing a curfew on men.

We might also, ya know, get serious about criminal justice. The UK has quite the reputation for coddling criminals, even for serious offenses. The irony being that this kid gloves approach to crime is likely the consequence of women being in politics and influencing policy.

We're both in the US, I believe so I'm not sure why you are bringing up UK crime rates?

But since you are, the US crime rate is higher than that of the UK. https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/crime-rate-by-country

and here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

Don't get your facts from Donald Trump.

 

[Trausti]

One very obvious pattern is that most victims of violent crime know their attacker(s). The other pattern, as you pointed out, is that the vast overwhelming number of violent criminals are male. Which is, I believe, the reasoning behind the proposal in the OP for imposing a curfew on men.

We might also, ya know, get serious about criminal justice. The UK has quite the reputation for coddling criminals, even for serious offenses. The irony being that this kid gloves approach to crime is likely the consequence of women being in politics and influencing policy.

We're both in the US, I believe so I'm not sure why you are bringing up UK crime rates?

But since you are, the US crime rate is higher than that of the UK. https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/crime-rate-by-country

and here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

Don't get your facts from Donald Trump.

The OP is about the UK. But the US has higher crime because of different demographics.

 

[Trausti]

Surely the gender fluid would be men by day and Ex-Men by night.

maybe;

A married Conservative councillor has been suspended after dressing up as a woman on Facebook in protest against proposed a 6pm curfew for men after Sarah Everard's murder. Mark Deacon posted an image of himself in a floral pink dress and long black wig - saying it is how he would dress if a curfew were imposed.

DailyMail


The snowflakes had a meltdown.

He apologized. For what?

 

[Angra Mainyu]

One very obvious pattern is that most victims of violent crime know their attacker(s). The other pattern, as you pointed out, is that the vast overwhelming number of violent criminals are male. Which is, I believe, the reasoning behind the proposal in the OP for imposing a curfew on men.

From a practical point of view, it makes perfect sense. Just like from a practical point of view, it may make sense to tell women to not go out after 6pm. Yet for some reason, the same people who suggest the latter have a conniption about the former. Hmmm.

A possible reason is that one would be mandatory, whereas the other isn't. Do you think the people who oppose this proposal would not oppose a proposal to actually ban women from going out after 6 pm?

 

[Keith&Co.]

The Welsh gov't believes "trans women are women, trans men are men and non-binary identities are valid". I wonder if Wales has a system in mind to keep track of the current gender of the gender fluid? Perhaps a tracking app

because three is too high to count for you?

Why, exactly, do we need to track that at th e govt. level?
My doctor needs to know my medical history, sure.
My health insurance company has access to all of my med hist.
My govt needs to know i am employed and my wages, my property values, number of baths, toilets, swimming pools. For taxes. Not affected by my gender.
My manager knows which of his employees claim male, female, and attack helicopter. Not sure he wants this info, exactly....

Who really needs to have the govt track where i feel or admit to feeling like i belong in this aspect?

 

[Toni]

We're both in the US, I believe so I'm not sure why you are bringing up UK crime rates?

But since you are, the US crime rate is higher than that of the UK. https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/crime-rate-by-country

and here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

Don't get your facts from Donald Trump.

The OP is about the UK. But the US has higher crime because of different demographics.

Really? The rate of obesity in the US is far greater than in the UK. Maybe obesity causes crime. A higher percentage of the UK population is Muslim compared with the US. Perhaps Islam is a religion of peace after all.

 

[Trausti]

The Welsh gov't believes "trans women are women, trans men are men and non-binary identities are valid". I wonder if Wales has a system in mind to keep track of the current gender of the gender fluid? Perhaps a tracking app

because three is too high to count for you?

Why, exactly, do we need to track that at th e govt. level?
My doctor needs to know my medical history, sure.
My health insurance company has access to all of my med hist.
My govt needs to know i am employed and my wages, my property values, number of baths, toilets, swimming pools. For taxes. Not affected by my gender.
My manager knows which of his employees claim male, female, and attack helicopter. Not sure he wants this info, exactly....

Who really needs to have the govt track where i feel or admit to feeling like i belong in this aspect?

Metaphor was making a joke.

 

[TomC]

From a practical point of view, it makes perfect sense. Just like from a practical point of view, it may make sense to tell women to not go out after 6pm. Yet for some reason, the same people who suggest the latter have a conniption about the former. Hmmm.

Neither one makes sense.

The biggest problem I have with most of the responses in this thread was how fast the feminists went into "victim blaming" mode.
Should this ridiculous proposal get passed, the main victims will be the law abiding guys out there. Secondly, the vulnerable women who would prefer not to go out alone and want a male escort for security. The big winners are most likely the predators who don't bother with laws, and now have more vulnerable targets.

One of the more "WTF?" moments was:

Why do you believe women need men to protect them from other men?

Tom