A letter from Ayn Rand

[Metaphor]

Were there others with empathy or love who were offering a better deal than an interest-free loan for the equivalent of ~$250 in today's money?

What in the letter indicates that the offer is interest free?

But, whichever way one looks at it, Rand is incoherent. She is giving an interest-free loan with no consequences for non-payment except estrangement, to a relative, despite her protest that family relatives occupy no special place in the hierarchy of people whom you are obligated to support. So unless she did or would offer the same deal to anybody who came along, she is giving her relatives special treatment. Rand just drew the line a little bit differently to others (e.g. some people would simply gift their relatives the money).

 

[Arctish]

nm

 

[bilby]

Were there others with empathy or love who were offering a better deal than an interest-free loan for the equivalent of ~$250 in today's money?

What in the letter indicates that the offer is interest free?

She specifies a repayment schedule that adds up to the exact amount of the loan.

But, whichever way one looks at it, Rand is incoherent. She is giving an interest-free loan with no consequences for non-payment except estrangement, to a relative, despite her protest that family relatives occupy no special place in the hierarchy of people whom you are obligated to support. So unless she did or would offer the same deal to anybody who came along, she is giving her relatives special treatment. Rand just drew the line a little bit differently to others (e.g. some people would simply gift their relatives the money).

Well nobody said she was a consistent, coherent or logical thinker.

Well, actually some people did, but the opinions of sycophantic morons are of little consequence.

 

[lpetrich]

Adam Lee on Atlas Shrugged may be worth a perusal.

As to someone begging for such a loan, I'd try to say that I wouldn't loan that money while trying to be as conciliatory and friendly as possible, and recommend alternatives, like buying at a secondhand store or from some friend who does not want some dress anymore. I don't believe in making enemies out of one's family.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

I agree. What did she build? What did she grow? What did she produce? What did she manufacture? What did she do in the interest of another human being?

As humans grow there are these windows where we develop. When they're missed they're missed. Perhaps in fairness she didn't have the opportunity that others enjoyed and so remained distant and stunted in this sense.

She discovered, wrote, and established a philosophy of individual, social, and economic life. She produced a literature of enlightenment to the benighted, an illumination of the nature of evil in contemporary society. For tens of millions she has provided a foundation of learning that influenced and informed their lives (e.g. Greenspan, Ryan, etc.) and like Friedman and Buckley she was a crucial counter-weight to the overwhelmingly liberal zeitgeist of the 60s and early 70s.

She was for youthful millions the first opportunity to break free of mind deadening liberalism - and the enormous antipathy to her legacy is a marker of her success.

Say what you want about those libruls, but I rather like democracy.

 

[Enigma]

Were there others with empathy or love who were offering a better deal than an interest-free loan for the equivalent of ~$250 in today's money?

But, whichever way one looks at it, Rand is incoherent. She is giving an interest-free loan with no consequences for non-payment except estrangement, to a relative, despite her protest that family relatives occupy no special place in the hierarchy of people whom you are obligated to support. So unless she did or would offer the same deal to anybody who came along, she is giving her relatives special treatment. Rand just drew the line a little bit differently to others (e.g. some people would simply gift their relatives the money).

What part of Rand's philosophy prohibits giving relatives (or any arbitrary group of her choice for that matter) preferential treatment? AFAIK, it simply says that one isn't obligated to give relatives preferential treatment.

Nothing in the letter indicates that she's making this offer due to being obligated to support family, any more than I was obligated to give money to people making card games about kittens and the random ways they can cause explosions. I tossed money in because it looks like a fun game and the price looks fine for what I'm getting. Presumably, Ayn made the offer because risking that amount of money to potentially gain a friend/relative who she could trust to be responsible and not wholly repugnant to her ice-queen capitalist notion of morality seemed worth it to her.

So far, everyone in this thread seems to be in agreement that one isn't obligated to gift that amount of money under those circumstances, including Rand in that letter. The main difference between Rand and the posters here is that Rand doesn't support the notion that one has an obligation to support family, while I believe everyone here (including myself) does support that premise (to a greater or lesser extent).

The odd part to me is that people here are patting themselves on the back for believing that they are good for accepting their obligation to support family unlike Rand, yet those people take this circumstance where Rand arguably does more to support family than those here would do as exhibit A of why "Auntie Ayn" is horrible, somehow, because she's not "nice" about doing something that nobody here would feel obliged to do under similar circumstances.

 

[untermensche]

The odd part to me is that people here are patting themselves on the back for believing that they are good for accepting their obligation to support family unlike Rand, yet those people take this circumstance where Rand arguably does more to support family than those here would do as exhibit A of why "Auntie Ayn" is horrible, somehow, because she's not "nice" about doing something that nobody here would feel obliged to do under similar circumstances.

A lot of it is projection of what people know about Rand into this situation.

Ultimately people reject the notion that selfishness is virtue.

And Rand never, in all her writings, demonstrates it is. She merely proclaims it, as if she descended from Sinai with the information.

 

[maxparrish]

The odd part to me is that people here are patting themselves on the back for believing that they are good for accepting their obligation to support family unlike Rand, yet those people take this circumstance where Rand arguably does more to support family than those here would do as exhibit A of why "Auntie Ayn" is horrible, somehow, because she's not "nice" about doing something that nobody here would feel obliged to do under similar circumstances.

A lot of it is projection of what people know about Rand into this situation.

Ultimately people reject the notion that selfishness is virtue.

And Rand never, in all her writings, demonstrates it is. She merely proclaims it, as if she descended from Sinai with the information.

Next time someone tells me that they needed Obamacare and food stamps, I will remind them that self-interest is not a virtue.

 

[untermensche]

A lot of it is projection of what people know about Rand into this situation.

Ultimately people reject the notion that selfishness is virtue.

And Rand never, in all her writings, demonstrates it is. She merely proclaims it, as if she descended from Sinai with the information.

Next time someone tells me that they needed Obamacare and food stamps, I will remind them that self-interest is not a virtue.

All people need food and medical attention when they are hurt or sick.

Recognizing this isn't selfishness.

 

[laughing dog]

So far, everyone in this thread seems to be in agreement that one isn't obligated to gift that amount of money under those circumstances, including Rand in that letter. The main difference between Rand and the posters here is that Rand doesn't support the notion that one has an obligation to support family, while I believe everyone here (including myself) does support that premise (to a greater or lesser extent).

The odd part to me is that people here are patting themselves on the back for believing that they are good for accepting their obligation to support family unlike Rand, yet those people take this circumstance where Rand arguably does more to support family than those here would do as exhibit A of why "Auntie Ayn" is horrible, somehow, because she's not "nice" about doing something that nobody here would feel obliged to do under similar circumstances.

You are missing the point. I know I did not write nor do I think that one has a necessary obligation to support family (especially nieces and nephews), and I don't think most of the other posters claimed one had such an obligation. Rhea said it best in post #52 (bold-face and italics added for emphasis).

The bitchy snide mean-hearted way she wrote to her niece, that's what's wrong with it.

I can understand a letter saying that niece must understand she is asking for someone else to provide money, which isn't free, but this is an excellent opportunity to learn the very important ins-and-outs of borrowing and lending, and yes, Auntie will lend the money if permitted to use the loan as a chance to provide niece with a very important lesson.

But the bitchy mean-girl shit about how auntie won't talk to your deadbeat sisters any more and won't talk to you, either, if you don't get the lesson right is just plain hollow character lacking any empathy or love. This letter isn't a nice lesson for niece, it's a cold slap in the face - do you want to be my bitch?

 

[Rhea]

The odd part to me is that people here are patting themselves on the back for believing that they are good for accepting their obligation to support family unlike Rand, yet those people take this circumstance where Rand arguably does more to support family than those here would do as exhibit A of why "Auntie Ayn" is horrible, somehow, because she's not "nice" about doing something that nobody here would feel obliged to do under similar circumstances.

Why do you think none of us would help a relative? That's an odd assumption.



When I read the letter, I assumed the dress was for an interview or some special occasion like a prom or something. I think people in families do lend this kind of stuff.