A New Pledge - and a little history

[crazyfingers]

"I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all".

That's what it was before the politicians got hold of it.
Tom

It is a crappy pledge, even in its original form. Pledging allegiance to the flag is a strange thing, why not to the country itself. Then you have the bit about the Republic (that is the nation) so that makes the flag bit redundant. Then it does mention 'nation', so that makes the Republic bit also redundant. 'Indivisible' is meaningless.
Then of course the "liberty and justice for all" is a joke. If expressed, not as an actuality but a hypothetical it would be more realistic.
So - "I pledge allegiance to my nation with hope it sustains the values of liberty and justice for all".
Of course the simplest solution, which I already suggested in post #2 is to not have a pledge at all.

The US has an obscene fetish with the flag. I never understood it.

And yes the pledge is a lie. There is no equal justice for all. Justice is very unequal. And if you accept the pledge as a wish rather than a statement of fact, then the Under God bullshit violates equal religious freedom.

That's the point I was making with the Principal at my kids school. As fact it's a lie. As wishful thinking it's unconstitutional.

The Pledge should be retired as bad fascism.

 

[crazyfingers]

I've told this story before but....

When I was in high school they made the Pledge mandatory every morning. This was around 1976-1978 probably.

The teacher told me to stand. I refused. At the time I didn't care about the God part and I was unaware of the unequal justice part. I simply objected to ANYONE telling me what to say or think. So I never stood up and the teacher never asked me again.

I have no idea what instructions that teachers were given. But I'd guess that about 25% of my class never stood.

 

[bilby]

Being told that it is mandatory to recite a pledge supporting liberty and justice strikes me as a rather glaring contradiction.

 

[Politesse]

I think the guy's central thesis, that adding "under God" politicized it, is wrong. It was always politicized. Just as in 1954 "under God" was code for "I ain't no Commie", in 1892 "one nation indivisible with liberty and justice for all" was code for "I ain't no Confederate". A loyalty oath is a loyalty oath.

Yeah, the content isn't really the problem. If you have to con children into swearing oaths of loyalty to your nation, it's a shit nation that deserves no one's loyalty.

 

[crazyfingers]

Being told that it is mandatory to recite a pledge supporting liberty and justice strikes me as a rather glaring contradiction.

Ya. But the fascists don't see that or don't want others to notice.

 

[TomC]

"I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all".

That's what it was before the politicians got hold of it.
Tom

It is a crappy pledge, even in its original form. Pledging allegiance to the flag is a strange thing, why not to the country itself. Then you have the bit about the Republic (that is the nation) so that makes the flag bit redundant. Then it does mention 'nation', so that makes the Republic bit also redundant. 'Indivisible' is meaningless.
Then of course the "liberty and justice for all" is a joke. If expressed, not as an actuality but a hypothetical it would be more realistic.
So - "I pledge allegiance to my nation with hope it sustains the values of liberty and justice for all".
Of course the simplest solution, which I already suggested in post #2 is to not have a pledge at all.

Let me explain the origins a little bit more.

Bellamy wrote it for a children's magazine. This was while the USA was still in the mess left by the War Between the States. He wrote it to be inclusive as possible, it didn't even mention a particular nation. It was meant to be high minded idealism, not a prayer to the Government. It was not intended to be a requirement.

All the crap that people are objecting to was added by politicians for their own purposes! Bellamy himself was still alive when the US government started messing with it and strenuously objected to their meddling.
Tom

 

[ideologyhunter]

It's old wall paper that hasn't aged well.
Since it's now Presidential to say shit, fuck, motherfucker, bastard, and son of a bitch, and also to portray oneself turd-bombing all those who disagree with you, we need a better, more American-exceptionalist pledge. At the very least it should reference "legacy Americans" and FAFO, so that everyone who hears it knows how badass we are.