A thought on Afghanistan

[DrZoidberg]

Just imagine the corrupt mess the US supported government in Afghanistan must have been if the Afghani's prefer the Taleban over democracy. It's Vietnam all over again. The US population caring more about labels than reality. And then when the band-aid is ripped off reality hits them in the face with a vengeance.

Failed state building!

Its not really about Bush's war on terror or failed state building though.

The US exit of Afghanistan is of huge benefit to China and their silk road initiative through the middle east. Of all the world players who benefit the most, it is China that wanted this. And Biden really really likes China....mostly due to his personal financial connections the media will not cover. But the simplest explanation is always the best explanation.

But the Chinese silk road initiative isn't in conflict with any country. Certainly not the US supported Afghani government. It's an initiative that benefits everybody. Why would the Taleban be more cooperative than the US supported Afghani government?

 

[funinspace]

his corruption spans a much longer history than Trump's short political career

You know not whereof you speak. There are no credible corruption allegations against Biden. Just the usual conspiracy "theories" ginned up by Q-ball krazies and their ilk.

Yazbutt, Don the Con wasn't part of the cabal of Illuminati then, selling out hard working Mericans to the Chinese...so it don't count.

 

[funinspace]

Just imagine the corrupt mess the US supported government in Afghanistan must have been if the Afghani's prefer the Taleban over democracy. It's Vietnam all over again. The US population caring more about labels than reality. And then when the band-aid is ripped off reality hits them in the face with a vengeance.

Failed state building!

Its not really about Bush's war on terror or failed state building though.

The US exit of Afghanistan is of huge benefit to China and their silk road initiative through the middle east. Of all the world players who benefit the most, it is China that wanted this. And Biden really really likes China....mostly due to his personal financial connections the media will not cover. But the simplest explanation is always the best explanation.

But the Chinese silk road initiative isn't in conflict with any country. Certainly not the US supported Afghani government. It's an initiative that benefits everybody. Why would the Taleban be more cooperative than the US supported Afghani government?

You are pissing up a rope...battling alt-reality wing nut sites and YouTube videos rational, built upon layers of bizarre fantasy constructs.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

China's silk road? This ignores the existence of airplanes and the Internet. China doesn't need Afghanistan to have presences in the Middle East or Africans nations like they already have. And Afghanistan isn't really that close to the Middle East... road wise. That is kind of part of our problem.

But I see the alt-right, Biden is in the pocket of China mantra has stuck with RVonse.

 

[Elixir]

Just imagine the corrupt mess the US supported government in Afghanistan must have been if the Afghani's prefer the Taleban over democracy. It's Vietnam all over again. The US population caring more about labels than reality. And then when the band-aid is ripped off reality hits them in the face with a vengeance.

Failed state building!

Its not really about Bush's war on terror or failed state building though.

The US exit of Afghanistan is of huge benefit to China and their silk road initiative through the middle east. Of all the world players who benefit the most, it is China that wanted this. And Biden really really likes China....mostly due to his personal financial connections the media will not cover. But the simplest explanation is always the best explanation.

But the Chinese silk road initiative isn't in conflict with any country. Certainly not the US supported Afghani government. It's an initiative that benefits everybody. Why would the Taleban be more cooperative than the US supported Afghani government?

The Chinese are amused somewhat by America's bungling of the first few days of their retreat, but they are definitely NOT in favor of the US withdrawal.
It leaves China with the towelybangers on their doorstep - a headache they don't need - and disentangles the US from the situation, freeing assets to deal with stuff that actually matters to China, such as the South China Sea, their economic incursion and insidious takeover of the African continent etc..
The New Silk Road Initiative (the land based part of which is mainly a tourist attraction) is hardly of any importance at all, except ocean transport element which has nothing - zero, zip, nada - to do with Afghanistan.
Of course it is something for right wing propagandists to invent stories about, and they have a ready audience in the credulous RVonses of the world, who will lap up anything they feed to them.

 

[atrib]

Covid-19 has killed at least 200 times (20,000 percent) more people in the US than the Muslim terrorists killed in 2001, in part due to the criminal negligence and outright dishonesty of our former Christian president. And that number continues to grow.

Elixir made a specific claim that Christians are responsible for "more and worse" terrorism than his Islamists. Conflating that with pandemics is not even just shifting goalposts, it's carrying them right out of the stadium!

Many of the covid deaths were a direct result of Trump's lies and criminal attempts to muzzle and undermine expert agencies like the CDC. Trump is a big part of the reason why many Americans chose not to take reasonable precautions to restrict the spread of the virus, and choose not to take the vaccine today. Trump is responsible for the deaths of tens or hundreds of thousands of Americans. Talk about Christian terrorism.

 

[funinspace]

But the Chinese silk road initiative isn't in conflict with any country. Certainly not the US supported Afghani government. It's an initiative that benefits everybody. Why would the Taleban be more cooperative than the US supported Afghani government?

The Chinese are amused somewhat by America's bungling of the first few days of their retreat, but they are definitely NOT in favor of the US withdrawal.
It leaves China with the towelybangers on their doorstep - a headache they don't need - and disentangles the US from the situation, freeing assets to deal with stuff that actually matters to China, such as the South China Sea, their economic incursion and insidious takeover of the African continent etc..
The New Silk Road Initiative (the land based part of which is mainly a tourist attraction) is hardly of any importance at all, except ocean transport element which has nothing - zero, zip, nada - to do with Afghanistan.
Of course it is something for right wing propagandists to invent stories about, and they have a ready audience in the credulous RVonses of the world, who will lap up anything they feed to them.

"Silk road" is like "Chineeeees virus", it tells of motive.... It is Belt and Road Initiative (BRI). FWIW, it includes rail shipping...but has no need of Afghanistan, or hidden conspiracies.

Decent Ref with good maps:
https://voxeu.org/article/how-belt-and-road-initiative-could-reduce-trade-costs

 

[RVonse]

But the Chinese silk road initiative isn't in conflict with any country. Certainly not the US supported Afghani government. It's an initiative that benefits everybody. Why would the Taleban be more cooperative than the US supported Afghani government?

The Chinese are amused somewhat by America's bungling of the first few days of their retreat, but they are definitely NOT in favor of the US withdrawal.
It leaves China with the towelybangers on their doorstep - a headache they don't need - and disentangles the US from the situation, freeing assets to deal with stuff that actually matters to China, such as the South China Sea, their economic incursion and insidious takeover of the African continent etc..
The New Silk Road Initiative (the land based part of which is mainly a tourist attraction) is hardly of any importance at all, except ocean transport element which has nothing - zero, zip, nada - to do with Afghanistan.
Of course it is something for right wing propagandists to invent stories about, and they have a ready audience in the credulous RVonses of the world, who will lap up anything they feed to them.

Afgannistan becoming free from US influence is a key piece for China to complete their domination of world island interlocked continents of Europe, Asia, and Africa.
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/dip...ans-long-quest-join-china-led-sco-nearly-over

“An hour ago, in a phone call with my friend and colleague Nikolai Patrushev, secretary of the Russian National Security Council, we examined the developments in Afghanistan, Syria and the Persian Gulf,” he said.

“Fortunately, the political obstacles to Iran’s membership in the Shanghai agreement have been removed and Iran’s membership will be finalised through technical formalities.”

This is not a conspiracy right wing propagandist story, it is happening right before our eyes. Whether or not you want China to dominate the world with trade and hegemony is a whole different matter off topic to this thread. But Biden performing as though he was employed by the Chinese is not. He is supposed to be working for the interests for the American people and not the CCP.

 

[funinspace]

But the Chinese silk road initiative isn't in conflict with any country. Certainly not the US supported Afghani government. It's an initiative that benefits everybody. Why would the Taleban be more cooperative than the US supported Afghani government?

The Chinese are amused somewhat by America's bungling of the first few days of their retreat, but they are definitely NOT in favor of the US withdrawal.
It leaves China with the towelybangers on their doorstep - a headache they don't need - and disentangles the US from the situation, freeing assets to deal with stuff that actually matters to China, such as the South China Sea, their economic incursion and insidious takeover of the African continent etc..
The New Silk Road Initiative (the land based part of which is mainly a tourist attraction) is hardly of any importance at all, except ocean transport element which has nothing - zero, zip, nada - to do with Afghanistan.
Of course it is something for right wing propagandists to invent stories about, and they have a ready audience in the credulous RVonses of the world, who will lap up anything they feed to them.

Afgannistan becoming free from US influence is a key piece for China to complete their domination of world island interlocked continents of Europe, Asia, and Africa.
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/dip...ans-long-quest-join-china-led-sco-nearly-over

“An hour ago, in a phone call with my friend and colleague Nikolai Patrushev, secretary of the Russian National Security Council, we examined the developments in Afghanistan, Syria and the Persian Gulf,” he said.

“Fortunately, the political obstacles to Iran’s membership in the Shanghai agreement have been removed and Iran’s membership will be finalised through technical formalities.”

This is not a conspiracy right wing propagandist story, it is happening right before our eyes.

Yeah, it pretty much is 'conspiracy theory'. The article you linked doesn't show much of any hint (let alone the so far imagined "key piece") that Afghanistan is a significant part of the Chinese BRI. China and Iran have been slowly working towards more trade linkages for years. China started a fully connected train route to Iran about 2-3 years ago, with no Afghanistan required.

Whether or not you want China to dominate the world with trade and hegemony is a whole different matter off topic to this thread. But Biden performing as though he was employed by the Chinese is not. He is supposed to be working for the interests for the American people and not the CCP.

Again, you are linking things together based on lots of hand waving and no facts... Afghanistan has been a huge money pit and waste of resources for the US for 20 years. Biden getting the US out of there, is a plus on that equation.

And China isn't going to bog itself down in Afghanistan militarily, and they will demand cooperation from the Taliban for their inclusion into the BRI efforts:
https://asiatimes.com/2021/07/chinas-belt-and-road-wont-readily-reach-afghanistan/

The bus was carrying over 30 Chinese engineers to the site of the Dasu dam, a hydroelectric project being built as part of the BRI’s associated US$60 billion China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC).

As China seeks to lure Afghanistan’s Taliban into its BRI, rising security concerns and stalled progress on the CPEC in neighboring Pakistan raises doubts about Beijing’s grand plan for Central Asian connectivity.

China has recently dangled big-ticket infrastructure projects in recent meetings with representatives of the Taliban, coincident with the militant group’s seizure of ever-greater swathes of territory as US troops withdrawal from the war-torn country.
<snip>
Beijing’s offer is contingent on the Taliban reining in Islamic militants groups who view China as an enemy, including ethnic Uighur groups bent on stirring instability in China’s Xinjiang region

 

[funinspace]

And oddly (or not so) RVonse seemed to not like the Afghan occupation/war in 2018:
https://talkfreethought.org/showthr...war&p=529463&highlight=Afghanistan#post529463

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

And oddly (or not so) RVonse seemed to not like the Afghan occupation/war in 2018:
https://talkfreethought.org/showthr...war&p=529463&highlight=Afghanistan#post529463

Add to that that RVonse is a fence sitting 9/11 Truther, that really piles on the 'this is just about conspiracy theories, isn't it' conclusion.

 

[TomC]

He is supposed to be working for the interests for the American people and not the CCP.

He is working for the American people!
Me at least!

I never wanted us in Afghanistan. We definitely should have finished whatever we were doing there before launching another invasion.

Biden finally bit the bullet and did what needed to be done. For America.

He probably does have investments in China. Nearly all wealthy Americans do. U.S. capital has been headed for China for many years, since the Bush II administration.
Tom

 

[RVonse]

And oddly (or not so) RVonse seemed to not like the Afghan occupation/war in 2018:
https://talkfreethought.org/showthr...war&p=529463&highlight=Afghanistan#post529463

Yes, I thought going over there in the first place was bullshit and I said so. Do you think history has proved me wrong? Could the military have better spent the $2 trillion and lives lost we wasted over there?

 

[RVonse]

He probably does have investments in China. Nearly all wealthy Americans do. U.S. capital has been headed for China for many years, since the Bush II administration.
Tom

Fair enough. I'm really not even unhappy we withdrew...just very suspicious of how we withdrew after so many many years.

 

[TomC]

He probably does have investments in China. Nearly all wealthy Americans do. U.S. capital has been headed for China for many years, since the Bush II administration.
Tom

Fair enough. I'm really not even unhappy we withdrew...just very suspicious of how we withdrew after so many many years.

OK

But I'm not sure what you meant by your last sentence. You said, "How". Do you mean the methods employed? Or "How it happened to be Biden?"
Tom

 

[RVonse]

He probably does have investments in China. Nearly all wealthy Americans do. U.S. capital has been headed for China for many years, since the Bush II administration.
Tom

Fair enough. I'm really not even unhappy we withdrew...just very suspicious of how we withdrew after so many many years.

OK

But I'm not sure what you meant by your last sentence. You said, "How". Do you mean the methods employed? Or "How it happened to be Biden?"
Tom

Methods employed and timing. The occupation the US made was obviously a terrible investment. But to make an analogy,when you buy a stock that turns out to be a bad company, do you sell it when it has reached its very lowest price? Or do you try to make lemonade out of the lemons?

 

[TomC]

He is supposed to be working for the interests for the American people and not the CCP.

He is working for the American people!
Me at least!

I never wanted us in Afghanistan. We definitely should have finished whatever we were doing there before launching another invasion.

Biden finally bit the bullet and did what needed to be done. For America.

He probably does have investments in China. Nearly all wealthy Americans do. U.S. capital has been headed for China for many years, since the Bush II administration.
Tom

And oddly (or not so) RVonse seemed to not like the Afghan occupation/war in 2018:
https://talkfreethought.org/showthr...war&p=529463&highlight=Afghanistan#post529463

Yes, I thought going over there in the first place was bullshit and I said so. Do you think history has proved me wrong? Could the military have better spent the $2 trillion and lives lost we wasted over there?

This is one of the things that makes me angry.

Immediately after 9/11 the USA had a good deal of sympathy, globally.

Imagine if, instead of massive military attacks, we'd recognized that a lot of the anti-usa hatred was very well founded. We'd done a lot of damage through the years, that people remember.

So, instead of sending out tens of thousands of trained professionals, highly equipped, with a nearly blank check drawn on the American taxpayers, to make war on Al Queda and the Baathists and the Taliban...
We'd done the same thing to make war on poverty and illiteracy and unsafe drinking water. Built clinics and markets and roads, instead of bases and jet fighters? Invested our top people in planning for peace and prosperity, instead of violence and domination?

We could now be the Great Santa, instead of the Great Satan.

I understand that war and subjugation were the way to go for most of human history. But the modern world is different. Too bad that Americans have to learn this the hard way.

Again.

Tom

 

[funinspace]

And oddly (or not so) RVonse seemed to not like the Afghan occupation/war in 2018:
https://talkfreethought.org/showthr...war&p=529463&highlight=Afghanistan#post529463

Yes, I thought going over there in the first place was bullshit and I said so. Do you think history has proved me wrong? Could the military have better spent the $2 trillion and lives lost we wasted over there?

You haven't noticed my Afghan thread {Afghan "train, advise and assist" 1984 style} going since 2015, heaping insults upon this sad pointless saga for 6 years now? So by your rational, you have been arguing to help the CCP yourself, along with Biden then?

OK

But I'm not sure what you meant by your last sentence. You said, "How". Do you mean the methods employed? Or "How it happened to be Biden?"
Tom

Methods employed and timing. The occupation the US made was obviously a terrible investment. But to make an analogy,when you buy a stock that turns out to be a bad company, do you sell it when it has reached its very lowest price? Or do you try to make lemonade out of the lemons?

Bottom in stocks is bankruptcy, aka down to zero with no upside. We've been trying to sell chilled shit as lemonade for over a dozen years. Sometimes, selling a bad stock, even at a big loss, is still the better solution. Anywho, weird analogies aside, how would be exiting Afghanistan be any more/less 'suspicious' if we left 2 years ago, 5 years ago, or 2 years from now, than the ugly reality of this summer?

Back in 2017 I pointed out that the first fully linked rail line started operating between China and Iran...what you point out regarding another minor step of joining the SCO is pretty trivial.

The Chinese Belt and Road Initiative (BRI) takes another significant step forward connecting across Asia. Turkey is also about to be connected. I don’t normally think much of this authors (Spengler) writings, but this time I thought he was rather balanced.
http://www.atimes.com/article/western-contempt-china-turns-panic/

On September 6, the first train to Teheranx departed from Yinchuan, capital of northwest China’s Ningxia Hui Autonomous Region, with a 15-day journey time to Iran’s capital, half as long as sea transport. The Baku-Tbilisi-Kars railway linking China with Turkey and the South Caucasus begins operations in October. China already is Turkey’s largest source of imports.

Meanwhile US media frets on whether El Cheato will give Iran another 90 day approval on the nuclear deal. Killing the deal on the US side will put Iran’s airlines multi-billion dollar deals with Boeing at high risk. This will be yet another strange step with Don the Con’s emphasis on MAG and deals. The rest of the world will ignore the US as much as they can, if the US tries for international sanctions again. Though the US does often go for blackmail to punish international companies, so El Cheato could go for a hardball strategy. Though with the BRI already now shipping cheaper by train than by sea, it will be much harder to force Asian companies to shun trading with Iran. The US had been able to intimidate big sea shipping companies, but how will the US intimidate Chinese rail lines, and how will the US be able to even know what is being shipped. And El Cheato needs China and Russian cooperation regarding NK. Which hot poker do they really want to deal with? Ironically, with El Cheato's flailing all over the place, threatening all sorts of countries/people at the same time, he may in the end enable most all of them to stake out their own paths as the US looks more impotent...

 

[Patooka]

OK

But I'm not sure what you meant by your last sentence. You said, "How". Do you mean the methods employed? Or "How it happened to be Biden?"
Tom

Methods employed and timing.

I would really love to hear how you believe Biden manipulated Trump to agree to withdraw the US from Afghanistan. Or how pulling out in August is bad, but pulling out in May would have left Afghanistan as a happy place with flowery meadows and rainbow skies and rivers made of chocolate where the children would dance and play.

 

[DrZoidberg]

But the Chinese silk road initiative isn't in conflict with any country. Certainly not the US supported Afghani government. It's an initiative that benefits everybody. Why would the Taleban be more cooperative than the US supported Afghani government?

You are pissing up a rope...battling alt-reality wing nut sites and YouTube videos rational, built upon layers of bizarre fantasy constructs.

I don't understand what you are for or against. Or even what you think about the Silk Road