Abortion

[Jimmy Higgins]

Quoting for truth.

Until the “pro-life” crowd successfully legislates the full financial and medical support of pregnant people and their subsequent parenthood, they expose themselves as a group that considers controlling sex MORE important than reducing abortions. They expose themselves as liars and hypocrites.

Everything they **DO** supports the prime directive of trying to make sex as risky as possible in order to control where women can do it.

The difference between what you SAY and what you DO - as always - is what you DO.

Pro-choicers DO more things to reduce abortions than pro-“life”ers do.
And they always have.

No dispute from me that the "pro-life" crowd has dropped the ball concerning the provision of care for those who wish to continue with their pregnancy and the abysmal lack of support after the birth though I do recall that there are maternal health nurses available, with maternity hospitals etc.

If the "pro-life" did enact legislation that provided the care you spoke in another thread you would be up in arms. You would stamp your feet, jump up and down, clench your fists and cry "This is the thin end of the wedge. We are on the slippery slope. They are trying to restrict abortion rights".
Quite clever actually. Damn the "pro-life" is they do nothing and curse them if they do anything.

Dropped the ball? You mean has shown absolutely no interest.

 

[bilby]

I'm saying that too, like the lonesome sperm.

Or the lonesome ovum.

Men need to step up and accept their responsibilities for preventing unwanted pregnancies by keeping their sperm to themselves. Then there would be no unwanted pregnancies.

Absolutely!!

Yes, it is the duty of man to take responsibility, be the grown-up, and protect the perpetual minor that is woman from falling prey to her own uncontrollable hormone-driven licentious urges.

Or, hey, here's a crazy idea -- maybe both parties are adults. They can share their precious bodily fluids if they please; and if they don't care to breed like rabbits they can take precautions; and they can buy some Plan B if they forgot the precautions; and if Plan B fails they can move on to plan C and abort the pregnancy before it's gone on long enough to create a mind capable of having contrary interests. The left and the right are trying to out-Puritan each other; and if there's one thing history has taught us about Puritans, it's "The Puritan hated bear-baiting, not because it gave pain to the bear, but because it gave pleasure to the spectators."

We all have different ideas on what we individually consider as a life-form or human being. What can be done about the differences of views? I'm not pro-choice of course, but I would accept there to be allowed the option of choice. Various reasons really, viewing from my faith. The USA for example, is not a Christian nation; laws passed, based on Christianity will be conflicting with alternative views of other groups, naturally, which could make things a lot worse. But we are still part of the community and the approach would be to simply give advice, just as it is with preaching the Gospel, for those who are willing to listen. The obvious pre-emptive approach through advice would be something like "prevention is better than cure" .

For someone who clearly likes to think of himself as kind, pleasant, and decent, you don’t half espouse some truly vile and evil ideas.

I don’t think you’re even capable of noticing this fact.

What can be done about the differences of views? Well, butting the fuck out of other people’s business might be a good starting point. Other people have their own views, and when those views relate to how they choose to use their own bodies, your dissenting view is utterly worthless and irrelevant, and your insistence in having any say whatsoever is vile and evil. Keep your opinions to yourself.

 

[Learner]

"Clearly likes to think of himself kind, pleasant..." and so on. I bet you say that to other Christians too. What's new?

 

[bilby]

"Clearly likes to think of himself kind, pleasant..." and so on. I bet you say that to other Christians too. What's new?

Don’t you like to think of yourself as kind, pleasant, and decent?

If I am mistaken, please accept my apologies, I genuinely didn’t realise that you think of yourself as unkind, unpleasant or indecent (or any combination of these traits).

 

[Elixir]

What can be done about the differences of views?

Who wants anything thing to “be done” about differing views? Only right wing religio-fascists.
Only right wing fascists feel the need to “do something about” those whose views differ from their own. And that “something” is to impose their views on others.

Pro choice people don’t want to force their views - or abortions - on religious right wingers, they only want to retain their own constitutionally guaranteed rights.

The US Constitution has guaranteed that if you don’t like abortion you don’t have to have one, and if you want an abortion you can have one.

The fascist religious establishment is not just trying to protect their right to refuse an abortion, they’re trying to impose their superstitions upon everyone else and revoke rights that have been constitutionally guaranteed for over a half century. This is not a symmetrically opposed set of “views”.

 

[Learner]

What can be done about the differences of views? Well, butting the fuck out of other people’s business might be a good starting point. Other people have their own views, and when those views relate to how they choose to use their own bodies, your dissenting view is utterly worthless and irrelevant, and your insistence in having any say whatsoever is vile and evil. Keep your opinions to yourself.

Charming. You have your opinion too at least Somewhat passionate, but fair enough, as you see it..

 

[pood]

What can be done about the differences of views? Well, butting the fuck out of other people’s business might be a good starting point. Other people have their own views, and when those views relate to how they choose to use their own bodies, your dissenting view is utterly worthless and irrelevant, and your insistence in having any say whatsoever is vile and evil. Keep your opinions to yourself.

Charming. You have your opinion too at least Somewhat passionate, but fair enough, as you see it..

What makes you believe that someone else’s decision to have an abortion is any of your business?

 

[Learner]

"Clearly likes to think of himself kind, pleasant..." and so on. I bet you say that to other Christians too. What's new?

Don’t you like to think of yourself as kind, pleasant, and decent?

NA

If I am mistaken, please accept my apologies, I genuinely didn’t realise that you think of yourself as unkind, unpleasant or indecent (or any combination of these traits).

No apologies for me , but you may want to apologise to the thread for failing wit.

 

[Learner]

What can be done about the differences of views? Well, butting the fuck out of other people’s business might be a good starting point. Other people have their own views, and when those views relate to how they choose to use their own bodies, your dissenting view is utterly worthless and irrelevant, and your insistence in having any say whatsoever is vile and evil. Keep your opinions to yourself.

Charming. You have your opinion too at least Somewhat passionate, but fair enough, as you see it..

What makes you believe that someone else’s decision to have an abortion is any of your business?

Read my previous posts. I wouldn't interfere with someones choice! Bilby's just having a rant.

 

[Elixir]

What can be done about the differences of views? Well, butting the fuck out of other people’s business might be a good starting point. Other people have their own views, and when those views relate to how they choose to use their own bodies, your dissenting view is utterly worthless and irrelevant, and your insistence in having any say whatsoever is vile and evil. Keep your opinions to yourself.

Charming. You have your opinion too at least Somewhat passionate, but fair enough, as you see it..

Whereas, as YOU see it, when those views relate to how they choose to use their own bodies you claim the right to control them and, if you can, revoke their Constitutionally guaranteed rights

But you're too cowardly to say it, am I correct?

No, not fair enough. Not fair at all.

What makes you believe that someone else’s decision to have an abortion is any of your business?

Cough it up, "Learner". Answer the question, or accept your own admission that your "views", right down to your user_name, are decep-tions based on an irrational urge to control other people's bodies.

 

[Rhea]

Read my previous posts. I wouldn't interfere with someones choice!

Now this is not what I was getting from your posts at all. So I appreciate the re-set.

So you are actually pro-choice? And you oppose all the legislation and court activity to ban or limit abortions?

Please confirm because I don’t want to assume, since my previous assumption based on your body of responses led me to an entirely different conclusion.


And if the above is accurate, does that mean that you are just arguing here for … wait, what is your argument? That you want to hurry and create space for governments to provide prenatal care, post partum care, childcare and food? Is that what you are thinking of when you post here?

But what does all the “have to have responsibility” part mean, then. Are you asking for social support in judging, shaming and disdaining?

 

[Bomb#20]

ike the reason as you would say rightly, the manner of being forced against the will, to have an abortion (or for that matter, being psychologically persuaded to have one for some social political agenda), also...

Who is being forced to have abortions against their will? Who is being persuaded to have abortions for some political agenda? What political agenda?...

Come on now, your playing with me. You didn't know that the fight for rights becomes political? Agendas usually become apparent when there are conflicting sides.

That's not playing with you; Atrib was not challenging the involvement of political agendas. He or she was challenging your premise that women are being forced to have abortions and your premise that women are being persuaded to have abortions for the sake of political agendas. The political agendas concern rather the creation and the tearing down of obstacles to women getting abortions; the abortions themselves have apolitical motivations. Women by-and-large are not "being psychologically persuaded to have one"; they are choosing to have them for personal reasons of their own; and in the cases where a woman is being psychologically persuaded to have one, it's normally for personal reasons of the persuader's own -- typically the woman's sex partner not wanting to become a father. Unless we're talking about knocked-up Congresswomen, politics is the furthest thing from people's minds when they're deciding whether to abort.

 

[Bomb#20]

You didn't know that the fight for rights becomes political?

What do you mean “becomes”?
When the granting and revocation of rights is a function of government, it’s political from day 1.

That's not what was in dispute.

The fact that right wing fascism has become the mechanism whereby religious fanatics are now able to revoke rights that were previously guaranteed, is not an indicator of a newly politicized fight over rights, it’s a complete abandonment of democratic principles.
In an actual democracy, people are granted domain over their own biological functions.

You have a strange notion of democracy. In an actual democracy the common people know what they want and they get it good and hard. DrZ was just telling us about the 60,000 Roma forcibly sterilized on the orders of the popularly elected Social Democratic Party of Sweden. If you know an example of an actual democracy where people actually are granted domain over their own biological functions, share.

 

[Bomb#20]

I'm not pro-choice of course, but I would accept there to be allowed the option of choice. Various reasons really, viewing from my faith. The USA for example, is not a Christian nation; laws passed, based on Christianity will be conflicting with alternative views of other groups, naturally, which could make things a lot worse.

Those sentences really don't go together. What more do you think there is to being "pro-choice" than "I would accept there to be allowed the option of choice. The USA for example, is not a Christian nation; laws passed, based on Christianity will be conflicting with alternative views of other groups, naturally, which could make things a lot worse." What characteristics do you lack that preclude the term "pro-choice" from correctly applying to you?

 

[Bomb#20]

We all have different ideas on what we individually consider as a life-form or human being. What can be done about the differences of views? ... the approach would be to simply give advice, just as it is with preaching the Gospel, for those who are willing to listen. The obvious pre-emptive approach through advice would be something like "prevention is better than cure" .

For someone who clearly likes to think of himself as kind, pleasant, and decent, you don’t half espouse some truly vile and evil ideas.

I don’t think you’re even capable of noticing this fact.

Pot, kettle, black.

What can be done about the differences of views? Well, butting ... out of other people’s business might be a good starting point. Other people have their own views, and when those views relate to how they choose to use their own bodies, your dissenting view is utterly worthless and irrelevant, and your insistence in having any say whatsoever is vile and evil. Keep your opinions to yourself.

Learner has his own views, and when those views relate to how he chooses to use the typing fingers of his own body, your dissenting view is utterly worthless and irrelevant, and your insistence in having any say whatsoever is vile and evil. Keep your opinions to yourself.

 

[Bomb#20]

... your dissenting view is utterly worthless and irrelevant, and your insistence in having any say whatsoever is vile and evil. Keep your opinions to yourself.[/B]

Charming. You have your opinion too at least Somewhat passionate, but fair enough, as you see it..

Don't mind bilby. He lives in Australia, and Australia as everyone knows is entirely peopled with criminals, and criminals are used to having double standards, one for themselves and one for other people, and people in Australia are used to taking for granted that there are no rights and "free speech" means not getting charged when they listen to some politician yammering.

 

[Bomb#20]

What can be done about the differences of views?

Who wants anything thing to “be done” about differing views? Only right wing religio-fascists.

Only right wing fascists feel the need to “do something about” those whose views differ from their own. And that “something” is to impose their views on others.

Oh, come off it. The world is overflowing with left wing religio-fascists who equally want something to be done about differing views.

The US Constitution has guaranteed that if you don’t like abortion you don’t have to have one, and if you want an abortion you can have one.

That's not how it works. You might as well claim the US Constitution has guaranteed that if you want a gun the taxpayers have to buy you one.

The fascist religious establishment is not just trying to protect their right to refuse an abortion, they’re trying to impose their superstitions upon everyone else and revoke rights that have been constitutionally guaranteed for over a half century. This is not a symmetrically opposed set of “views”.

An awful lot of the folks who call themselves "pro-choice" seem think they have a constitutionally guaranteed right to have the taxpayers buy them an abortion. That's imposing their views upon everyone else.

 

[Elixir]

Unless we're talking about knocked-up Congresswomen, politics is the furthest thing from people's minds when they're deciding whether to abort.

Oh, come off it. The world is overflowing with left wing religio-fascists who equally want something to be done about differing views.

No, I don’t recall any leftyreligiowhatevers trying to revoke the Constitutionally guaranteed rights of half the population, at least with any threat of success.

Everyone has “differing views”. It’s a matter of degrees. I have heard about people whose views are/were that it’s their god-given duty to murder “abortion doctors”. That’s a bit too differing for my own views to accept, for whatever reason. I think that if we lived in a society where 70-80% of the citizenry thought abortion should be prohibited, there would be little controversy.

 

[Rhea]

An awful lot of the folks who call themselves "pro-choice" seem think they have a constitutionally guaranteed right to have the taxpayers buy them an abortion. That's imposing their views upon everyone else.

That’s not an accurate statement.
The accurate statement is:

An awful lot of the folks who call themselves "pro-choice" seem think they have a constitutionally guaranteed right to not have religious views cherry pick what health care they are able to access.

And that means if medical care is being funded for needy people by taxpayers (via Medicaid, for instance) then they demand that ALL reasonable,non-experimental medical care is covered. And moreover, when people use private insurance or even their own money, that they are not prevented by religious laws from acquiring that medical care.

Recall that when abortions were being provided by Planned Parenthood in these states, they were not requiring federal dollars. They raised a lot of their own money. But they did expect that what Medicaid pays for, they should pay for everywhere.


And for the cold hard pragmatists, paying for an abortion is a SHITLOAD CHEAPER than paying for a pregnancy and delivery, which medicaid does often cover, so one would assume that the Libertarians would be 100% for taxpayer funded abortions so that no one has to pay extra for a delivery that no one wanted in the first place. This is analogous to the people who hated the affordable care act and were ignorant of the fact that in its absence people went to emergency rooms for 10x the price - on the taxpayer’s dime.

 

[bilby]

What can be done about the differences of views? Well, butting the fuck out of other people’s business might be a good starting point. Other people have their own views, and when those views relate to how they choose to use their own bodies, your dissenting view is utterly worthless and irrelevant, and your insistence in having any say whatsoever is vile and evil. Keep your opinions to yourself.

Charming. You have your opinion too at least Somewhat passionate, but fair enough, as you see it..

Yeah, my opinion is that people should be free to act on their own opinions with regards to their own bodies and their own private lives.

You bet your life I am fucking passionate about this; And you can shove your ‘charming’ up your hairy arse.

I would much rather that people expressed noble sentiments in crude language, than that they expressed evil sentiments in polite terms, and pretended that politeness is somehow an indication that their motives are no longer evil.

Seeking to strip people of their right to self-determination, in favour of compelling them to conform to your opinions, is the most vile thing I can easily imagine, and massively outweighs using a few profanities for emphasis as an indication of evil.

I sincerely hope that I have shocked you; Rest assured that my foul language is not even a fraction as shocking or as unpleasant as your sweetly expressed desire to control other people’s lives.