Adam Toledo video released

[TomC]

I wonder what would have happened if the boy had not tossed down the gun.

I wonder what would have happened if a gun weren't available to a boy at all.
Tom

But second amendment!

I know. Exactly.

People get all self righteous about weapons that the Founding Fathers couldn't even imagine.
But then ignore modern problems, like income inequality and rotten educational systems and horrible parenting.
Tom

 

[Toni]

Do you know what else is poor communication? repeating the same BS over and over again.
Stop this BS. He knew what he was doing. He was trying to get away from the police and he knew that he should not have been doing that. He was not not a 3 year old.

If you look at the police trained to negotiate in fraught situations like with hostages, you’ll notice they know to NEVER SHOUT if they want to control the situation.

The police who shouted at this boy were doing stupid things and should not be in this line of work.



He threw away the gun. So. Fucking. What. That does not make him more dangerous, it makes him less dangerous.

{Elision}, police officer DID NOT see that.

The 13 year old kid de-escalated the situation by getting rid of the gun.

Fuck no!

In what way is the kid throwing away the gun adding any danger to the police, huh?

I said no such thing. I said turning around added a danger to the police.

He showed his empty hands.

And you think the cops are too stupid to to handle a 13yo kid who has thrown away his gun. You think he should die anyway.

{Elision}

He was very good and police officer most certainly did not see him tossing the gun and from his point of view he still had it and turned around to shoot. If he had not turned around he would have been alive.

Stupid cop did not allow this to happen. Stupid behavior of shouting and screaming such that stupid cop cannot hear any replies from suspect. Does not give any moment for suspect to use their words to let cop know he is complying. How can the cops be so stupid as to cut off two way communications like that?

It’s just tragically stupid.
The stupid shouting and screeching by the cops make matters worse. It’s a stupid hollywood scene of attempted dominance rather than actually controlling the situation. . And that’s what makes it so tragically stupid.

Bullshit, he died because he choose to play games with the police.

He was a 13 year old kid, meaning he was more child than adult. He was a lonely child, isolated at school, in a classroom with the same 6 other kids with learning disabilities, far worse than his so he wasn't really able to develop socially as he would have if he had been surrounded by kids who were at his ability level or slightly above.

Did he 'know what he was doing?' I doubt very much that he realized what danger he was in or was attached to what he was doing. Because he was 13 years old for one thing, and had some intellectual disabilities for another. He was trying to find a place to fit in. He panicked and did his best to comply with a screaming adult. Who shot him for it, then lied about what happened, lied that he was armed when he was shot, hid the evidence and video for days.

Adam Toledo was a 13 year old child.

The officer who killed him is an adult, trained professional.

Why are we willing to allow that police officers can be frightened in a situation but children cannot?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

You put forward unattainable requirements for the police. They are not robots with perfect vision and unlimited CPU speed.
13 year old who just fired at random car at 2AM tried to evade the police and get rid of the gun. I say give life sentence to 21 year old and be done with it.

Can you name the unattainable requirement you divined from my post? I dare you.

You want to simplify the whole situation to one sentence comprised of 22 words. It's easier to think about it that way, but it's lazy, and nuance is lost. This kind of laziness is also what guarantees that tragic outcomes like this will continue.

I've already pointed it out directly and others have indirectly: reaction time. .8 seconds is not enough time to recall a shoot decision. The gun was pitched rather than brought to bear but in such a situation the human mind simply can't change tracks fast enough.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

This is so important. Police have this stupid Hollywood-Drill-Sargeant habit of SHOUT-SHOUT-SHOUT-SCREAM and they give conflicting instructions and they work themselves all into a froth that they loose track of their ability to gauge time and they expect humans to respond thoughtfully while the police are jacking up the atmosphee of fear and anxiety.

It’s stupid. It just insanely stupid. As any social worker or nurse, anyone who deals with people and not just charactatures, whether ramping up the anxiety and expecting calm response is a professional response. And they will tell you, “are you an idiot? Of course not! You are going to get the opposite of solutions, you are creating more problems.”

Yet the police still think they’re in a fucking Hollywood Basic Training scene and might makes right so whoever has the loudest screech is the most powerful.

It can cause a problem when multiple officers are doing it but the reason they do it is simple: It works. If they were nice and friendly like you want they would be having to shoot more often.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I wonder what would have happened if the boy had not tossed down the gun.

I suspect he would have been shot all the same. An armed boy is more dangerous than an unarmed one.

If the end result would have been the same, then the issue of 0.8 seconds being "not enough time" for the officer to re-evaluate the situation is moot, isn't it?

The way to not die was to simply drop the gun. As it stands the cop saw the gun hand moving and decided to shoot. At that point there wasn't enough time to realize he was pitching the gun rather than bringing it to bear.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I wonder what would have happened if the boy had not tossed down the gun.

I wonder what would have happened if a gun weren't available to a boy at all.
Tom

The gangs bring in plenty of drugs, they could bring in guns also.

In reality, gun control only applies to the law abiding, we have no hope of disarming the criminals.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

He was a 13 year old kid, meaning he was more child than adult. He was a lonely child, isolated at school, in a classroom with the same 6 other kids with learning disabilities, far worse than his so he wasn't really able to develop socially as he would have if he had been surrounded by kids who were at his ability level or slightly above.

Did he 'know what he was doing?' I doubt very much that he realized what danger he was in or was attached to what he was doing. Because he was 13 years old for one thing, and had some intellectual disabilities for another. He was trying to find a place to fit in. He panicked and did his best to comply with a screaming adult. Who shot him for it, then lied about what happened, lied that he was armed when he was shot, hid the evidence and video for days.

Adam Toledo was a 13 year old child.

The officer who killed him is an adult, trained professional.

Why are we willing to allow that police officers can be frightened in a situation but children cannot?

Of course he was frightened, that has no bearing on whether the officer's actions were justified.

And the officer didn't lie. At the time he made his decision Adam was armed.

The gangs exploit kids, sometimes bad things happen to them because of it. Usually they die at the hands of other gangbangers, though.

 

[Toni]

He was a 13 year old kid, meaning he was more child than adult. He was a lonely child, isolated at school, in a classroom with the same 6 other kids with learning disabilities, far worse than his so he wasn't really able to develop socially as he would have if he had been surrounded by kids who were at his ability level or slightly above.

Did he 'know what he was doing?' I doubt very much that he realized what danger he was in or was attached to what he was doing. Because he was 13 years old for one thing, and had some intellectual disabilities for another. He was trying to find a place to fit in. He panicked and did his best to comply with a screaming adult. Who shot him for it, then lied about what happened, lied that he was armed when he was shot, hid the evidence and video for days.

Adam Toledo was a 13 year old child.

The officer who killed him is an adult, trained professional.

Why are we willing to allow that police officers can be frightened in a situation but children cannot?

Of course he was frightened, that has no bearing on whether the officer's actions were justified.

And the officer didn't lie. At the time he made his decision Adam was armed.

The gangs exploit kids, sometimes bad things happen to them because of it. Usually they die at the hands of other gangbangers, though.

So, what you are saying is that the officer decided to shoot Adam BEFORE he told him to drop the gun and put his hands up?

 

[laughing dog]

He was a 13 year old kid, meaning he was more child than adult. He was a lonely child, isolated at school, in a classroom with the same 6 other kids with learning disabilities, far worse than his so he wasn't really able to develop socially as he would have if he had been surrounded by kids who were at his ability level or slightly above.

Did he 'know what he was doing?' I doubt very much that he realized what danger he was in or was attached to what he was doing. Because he was 13 years old for one thing, and had some intellectual disabilities for another. He was trying to find a place to fit in. He panicked and did his best to comply with a screaming adult. Who shot him for it, then lied about what happened, lied that he was armed when he was shot, hid the evidence and video for days.

Adam Toledo was a 13 year old child.

The officer who killed him is an adult, trained professional.

Why are we willing to allow that police officers can be frightened in a situation but children cannot?

Of course he was frightened, that has no bearing on whether the officer's actions were justified.

And the officer didn't lie. At the time he made his decision Adam was armed.

But when he shot him, Adam Toledo was unarmed. Which strongly suggests that the officer acted in haste or recklessly.

The gangs exploit kids, sometimes bad things happen to them because of it. Usually they die at the hands of other gangbangers, though.

One might interpret this as "The little thug was going to die anyway, so what's the beef?" But you would never make such a sociopathic argument, so what is your point?

 

[untermensche]

But when he shot him, Adam Toledo was unarmed. Which strongly suggests that the officer acted in haste or recklessly.

The length of time the kid was unarmed is suggestive of a false impression.

The impression a gun was being lifted up and pointed at the cop.

When your brain has that impression you, fire!

 

[Trausti]

I wonder what would have happened if the boy had not tossed down the gun.

I wonder what would have happened if a gun weren't available to a boy at all.
Tom

The gangs bring in plenty of drugs, they could bring in guns also.

In reality, gun control only applies to the law abiding, we have no hope of disarming the criminals.

Nonsense. Brazil has strict gun laws and nearly no gun homicides. Probably.

 

[barbos]

This is what happened two days ago in the same neighborhood, Little Village. Same thing as what Adam Toledo and Ruben Roman were doing, i.e. shooting at a car. Except in this case a 17 year old girl is dead.
I would not be surprised in the perps in this case turn out to be Latin Kings bangers as well.

17-year-old girl shot to death Thursday in Little Village

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news...0210418-wujv6zwparfdtffqpfguczgcau-story.html

A 7-year-old girl died Sunday after she was shot inside a vehicle in a drive-thru lane at a McDonald’s restaurant on the city’s West Side, according to Chicago police.

I think this is that McDonalds:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.866...jrfE_Sx_JkdxsPmkJqmA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en



Same neighborhood

 

[Loren Pechtel]

But when he shot him, Adam Toledo was unarmed. Which strongly suggests that the officer acted in haste or recklessly.

"Reaction time".

Look it up. Understand it.

 

[laughing dog]

But when he shot him, Adam Toledo was unarmed. Which strongly suggests that the officer acted in haste or recklessly.

"Reaction time".

Look it up. Understand it.

I suggest you have someone explain "haste" and "reckless" to you. The officer shot a teenage suspect who was disarming himself because the officer was either impatient, incompetent or a fucking racist.

 

[ronburgundy]

The gangs bring in plenty of drugs, they could bring in guns also.

In reality, gun control only applies to the law abiding, we have no hope of disarming the criminals.

In realty, most guns get into the hands of criminals via the legal gun market and lax laws that allow "law abiding good guys with guns" to profit by funneling guns into the grey markets. Thus, in reality, increased regulation on legal gun sales, transfers, registration, and proof of continued possession of all guns bought would massively choke of the illegal gun supply.

Nonsense. Brazil has strict gun laws and nearly no gun homicides. Probably.

Brazil is run by organized crime that controls it's thoroughly corrupt police. So, unless you're saying the same is true of the US (and thus the entire US police force should be treated as criminals, defunded and disbanded), Brazil if of no relevance. What is of relevance are European countries that are comparable in most ways to the US, except for strict gun control. They all have much lower homicide rates.

 

[RVonse]

There are multiple ways of looking at the death of Adam Toledo but one thing is certain: It certainly did nothing to prevent the death of another child, now, did it?

It may have prevented other deaths, but we would have no way to know. A 13 year old continuing shooting random cars the rest of his life could very well result in another killing though. That for sure will not happen now.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I think it is odd. Whenever a black teen gets killed by the cops (or Zimmerman-like people) they show pictures of the victims from five or six years prior to his death. It is totally different with white serial killers, because they usually show pictures of them from booking. Odd that.

The Toledo case appears to have no innocent people involved. Everyone seemed to make some bad decisions that led to Toledo's death, a team effort. Or as Trump would say, they all choked... "like in a Golf Tournament".

 

[Toni]

There are multiple ways of looking at the death of Adam Toledo but one thing is certain: It certainly did nothing to prevent the death of another child, now, did it?

It may have prevented other deaths, but we would have no way to know. A 13 year old continuing shooting random cars the rest of his life could very well result in another killing though. That for sure will not happen now.

Wow. Yes, let’s shoot dead any 13 year old who is doing stupid dangerous or illegal stuff when they are 13. Let’s invent a time machine and go back in time and start shooting to death all the 13 year olds doing stupid dangerous illegal thingsfrim 10, 20, 30, 40 years ago. I suspect there wouldn’t be a single one of us left alive to post here.

 

[Toni]

But when he shot him, Adam Toledo was unarmed. Which strongly suggests that the officer acted in haste or recklessly.

"Reaction time".

Look it up. Understand it.

Doesn’t reaction time also apply to 13 year old boys?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

But when he shot him, Adam Toledo was unarmed. Which strongly suggests that the officer acted in haste or recklessly.

"Reaction time".

Look it up. Understand it.

I suggest you have someone explain "haste" and "reckless" to you. The officer shot a teenage suspect who was disarming himself because the officer was either impatient, incompetent or a fucking racist.

The officer shot a teenage suspect who was raising a hand with a gun.