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Afghan "train, advise and assist" 1984 style

TomC said:
Gospel said:
Wait what? I thought Russia and the Taliban were mortal Enemies. If what you say about Trump is true I'm certain it was more likely an ill-informed means to broker a deal so we can get out of Afghanistan without mud on our faces.
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The Taliban and the USA are mortal enemies. Nevertheless, we funded and armed them back in the 80s.

Politics make strange bedfellows. Osama bin Laden's first gun was probably supplied by Henry Kissinger. His money came from US petrodollars paid to the Saudi Arabian Kingdom.

It's messy.
Tom
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That may be true and all but it doesn't say anything about why Osama bin Laden developed a hatred for the father that gave him his "first gun" and allowance.
 
I know it was a crazy situation but how could anyone have cleared that plane for takeoff?
 
So I was just listening to Matt Zeller on MSNBC. Seems he's been beating up the Biden administration for months to get these people out. Also, everyone who has worked for us is in a biometric database. I heard Biden make a rather thin excuse for not getting these folks out sooner, that he didn't want it to appear the situation was hopeless before it actually was. That's a lot of lives he's putting at risk for the sake of keeping up appearances.
 
TV and credit cards said:
So I was just listening to Matt Zeller on MSNBC. Seems he's been beating up the Biden administration for months to get these people out. Also, everyone who has worked for us is in a biometric database. I heard Biden make a rather thin excuse for not getting these folks out sooner, that he didn't want it to appear the situation was hopeless before it actually was. That's a lot of lives he's putting at risk for the sake of keeping up appearances.
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He does have a point. The wife is continually taking luggage out of the house, you probably aren’t waiting for her to take the sofa out to ask if she is leaving for good.

That said, smaller numbers were certainly possible. I’m sure the Trump admin ran security checks on all those Afghans in their run up to ‘Give Afghanistan right to the Taliban-Polluza’.
 
“Nation Leaders Rush to Pulpit to Provide Platitudes of Sorrow For the Afghans, But Stopping Short of Saying They’ll Do Anything About It”

“Taliban Equate Selves To Tom Brady of Third World Radicalism”

“Pat Tillman Rolls in Grave”
 
Gospel said:
TomC said:
Gospel said:
Wait what? I thought Russia and the Taliban were mortal Enemies. If what you say about Trump is true I'm certain it was more likely an ill-informed means to broker a deal so we can get out of Afghanistan without mud on our faces.
Click to expand...

The Taliban and the USA are mortal enemies. Nevertheless, we funded and armed them back in the 80s.

Politics make strange bedfellows. Osama bin Laden's first gun was probably supplied by Henry Kissinger. His money came from US petrodollars paid to the Saudi Arabian Kingdom.

It's messy.
Tom
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That may be true and all but it doesn't say anything about why Osama bin Laden developed a hatred for the father that gave him his "first gun" and allowance.
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Really?
You're unaware of USA support of the Afghan mujahadeen?
As long as it suited "us".

You're such an American.
Tom
 
This is a complete failure of the Biden administration. There is no way to sugarcoat it. At least he could have ordered massive bombing of Taliban positions over the past weeks to weaken the Taliban as much as possible. Why did he not do that?

Another reason for us to stay in Afghanistan would be the rare earth metals, lithium etc. I suspect that now China will swoop in and make mining deals with Taliban.

Afghanistan, Kazakhstan Could Become New Global Rare Earth Metals Centers

And how he is going to make another mistake and bring in tens of thousands of Afghan mass migrants without any vetting for Islamist positions. 99% of Afghans are Sharia supporters and it is insane bringing them in blindly. Places such as Clarkston, GA already looks like an Islamic country with women in burqas/niqabs and men with long beards in nightgowns. We do not need more of that!

gsi2-chp1-3.png
 
Derec said:
This is a complete failure of the Biden administration. There is no way to sugarcoat it. At least he could have ordered massive bombing of Taliban positions over the past weeks to weaken the Taliban as much as possible.

And how he is going to make another mistake and bring in tens of thousands of Afghan mass migrants without any vetting for Islamist positions. 99% of Afghans are Sharia supporters and it is insane bringing them in blindly.

View attachment 34885
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I don't agree with this in the least. Would have been great if our nation building efforts had been successful. Sucks that it wasn't. If we had bombed the Taliban to shit for the next 10 years it wouldn't have mattered. We accomplished our primary goal: destroy Al-queda and stop further terrorist attacks by them. I wish that we could have helped the moderate Afgans. Maybe China will do better. Time to shift priorities...
 
Harry Bosch said:
I don't agree with this in the least. Would have been great if our nation building efforts had been successful. Sucks that it wasn't. If we had bombed the Taliban to shit for the next 10 years it wouldn't have mattered.
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If you kill your enemies, they die.
The problem with US involvement in Afghanistan over the last 20 years was that it was too half-assed and not aggressive enough in fighting the enemy.

We accomplished our primary goal: destroy Al-queda and stop further terrorist attacks by them. I wish that we could have helped the moderate Afgans.
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Doubtful. Now Taliban can invite Al Qaeda back in and roll out the red carpet. Biden is unlikely to do anything against them unless there is another 9/11 while he is president.

Maybe China will do better. Time to shift priorities...
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And make trillions in the process.
 
Derec said:
If you kill your enemies, they die.
The problem with US involvement in Afghanistan over the last 20 years was that it was too half-assed and not aggressive enough in fighting the enemy.
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The average IQ in Afghanistan is 84. It is very tribal. Most are illiterate. Corruption is wide spread. Mix in US government incompetence, grift, and a steadfast refusal to acknowledge/fix institutional problems. No amount of military aggressiveness could have made this work.
 
Derec said:
If you kill your enemies, they die.
The problem with US involvement in Afghanistan over the last 20 years was that it was too half-assed and not aggressive enough in fighting the enemy.


Doubtful. Now Taliban can invite Al Qaeda back in and roll out the red carpet. Biden is unlikely to do anything against them unless there is another 9/11 while he is president.

Maybe China will do better. Time to shift priorities...
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And make trillions in the process.
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I really don't think that it makes sense to occupy mid east countries long term. We have more success in monitoring for terrorist activity, then sending in the seals. They need the practice.
 
Jimmy Higgins said:
Granada, Panama, First Gulf War were huge military victories! ;)

Does Russia have a new strategy for Afghanistan? | Conflict News | Al Jazeera - "Moscow will seek ‘pragmatic’ engagement with the Taliban after the armed group seized control of Afghanistan, analysts say."
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Who do you think got Trump to push that Taliban President-to-be out of prison in Pakistan?
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Come on, you need to see a doctor.
Russia has nothing to gain with Taliban in power.
 
This is gonna sound twisted, but the Taliban taking mass hostages as leverage to empty out Guantanamo would be a great thing.

I don't care if there are actual terrorists there. 20 years in that condition is payment enough.

Having Guantanamo end in embarrassment of having to bend the knee is the best thing possible.
 
Afghanistan Video: Key Scenes from the Taliban's Swift Victory - The New York Times - "The fall of Afghanistan’s government was captured in hundreds of videos from across the country. We analyzed some of the key moments."
In several cities, Afghan security forces put up a strong fight to stop the Taliban advance, with videos showing exchanges of gunfire.

But much more prevalent during the Taliban’s offensive were the scenes of apparent retreat by government forces left ill-equipped to secure the country after the American withdrawal.

In district after district, videos showed caravans of government military vehicles driving toward borders and airports.

In one video, an escaping Afghan convoy clogged a bridge on the border with Uzbekistan, reminiscent of Soviet soldiers leaving the country decades earlier across the same bridge.

Other videos show multiple Afghan military convoys that had fled across the border into eastern Iran.
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The US spent some $83 billion on Afghan security forces, and the article mentions that the Taliban has captured at least 24 of the Afghan Air Force's 200 or so aircraft.
What may be more advantageous for the Taliban are the hundreds of Humvees and pickup trucks they captured along with countless caches of weapons and ammunition. In social media videos, Taliban insurgents showed off their newly acquired weapons and vehicles.
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Billions spent on Afghan army ultimately benefited Taliban
Built and trained at a two-decade cost of $83 billion, Afghan security forces collapsed so quickly and completely — in some cases without a shot fired — that the ultimate beneficiary of the American investment turned out to be the Taliban. They grabbed not only political power but also U.S.-supplied firepower — guns, ammunition, helicopters and more.

The Taliban captured an array of modern military equipment when they overran Afghan forces who failed to defend district centers. Bigger gains followed, including combat aircraft, when the Taliban rolled up provincial capitals and military bases with stunning speed, topped by capturing the biggest prize, Kabul, over the weekend.
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Kabul airport operations restarted for evacuation flights- Pentagon | Reuters - with a picture of that airport

Taliban Sweep in Afghanistan Follows Years of U.S. Miscalculations - The New York Times - "An Afghan military that did not believe in itself and a U.S. effort that Mr. Biden, and most Americans, no longer believed in brought an ignoble end to America’s longest war."

Mapping the advance of the Taliban in Afghanistan - BBC News

The Taliban slowly advanced until August 13, where Taliban control, contested, and gov't control are roughly 1/3 each. The maps skip Aug 14 and the next one is Aug 15, with the Taliban in control of 87% and contesting 10%. The gov't controlled only some bits near Kabul. Then on Aug 16, the Taliban controls all of the nation except for a bit to the north of Kabul, a bit that the gov't still contests, a bit that is only 2% of the nation's area.

Biden Stands Behind Afghan Withdrawal in Speech - The New York Times
“We gave them every tool they could need. We paid their salaries. Provided for the maintenance of their airplanes,” Mr. Biden said. “We gave them every chance to determine their own future. What we could not provide was the will to fight for that future.”
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Fair enough.
Mr. Biden acknowledged that the Taliban victory had come much faster than the United States had expected and that the withdrawal was “hard and messy.” As the fourth president to preside over the war in Afghanistan, though, he said that “the buck stops with me.”
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Much like this: "The Buck Stops Here" Desk sign | Harry S. Truman
“I stand squarely behind my decision,” he said, adding that he would not “shrink from my share of responsibility for where we are today.”

He directed a question to critics of the withdrawal, asking, “How many more generations of America’s daughters and sons would you have me send to fight Afghans — Afghanistan’s civil war, when Afghan troops will not?”
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Links to this site with maps of Afghanistan with who controls what territory:
Mapping Taliban Contested and Controlled Districts in Afghanistan | FDD's Long War Journal

Read the Full Transcript of Biden's Afghanistan Speech - The New York Times - "Mr. Biden spoke from the White House on Monday afternoon after the collapse of the Afghan government to the Taliban."
American troops cannot and should not be fighting in a war and dying in a war that Afghan forces are not willing to fight for themselves. We spent over a trillion dollars. We trained and equipped an Afghan military force of some 300,000 strong. Incredibly well equipped. A force larger in size than the militaries of many of our NATO allies. We gave them every tool they could need. We paid their salaries, provided for the maintenance of their air force, something the Taliban doesn’t have. Taliban does not have an air force. We provided close air support. We gave them every chance to determine their own future. What we could not provide them was the will to fight for that future.

There are some very brave and capable Afghan special forces units and soldiers. But if Afghanistan is unable to mount any real resistance to the Taliban now, there is no chance that one year — one more year, five more years or 20 more years — that U.S. military boots on the ground would have made any difference.

Here’s what I believe to my core: It is wrong to order American troops to step up when Afghanistan’s own armed forces would not. The political leaders of Afghanistan were unable to come together for the good of their people, unable to negotiate for the future of their country when the chips were down. They would never have done so while U.S. troops remained in Afghanistan bearing the brunt of the fighting for them. And our true strategic competitors, China and Russia, would love nothing more than the United States to continue to funnel billions of dollars in resources and attention into stabilizing Afghanistan indefinitely.
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Isn't it great to have someone mature in the White House?

The Taliban's Takeover in Afghanistan: What to Know - The New York Times
The War in Afghanistan: How It Started and How It Is Ending

Just as the United States was set to withdraw its military from Afghanistan after nearly 20 years of war, the Taliban took over Kabul, the country’s capital.
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In desperation, U.S. scours for countries willing to house Afghan refugees | Reuters
President Joe Biden's administration has been holding secret talks with more countries than previously known in a desperate attempt to secure deals to temporarily house at-risk Afghans who worked for the U.S. government, four U.S. officials told Reuters.

The previously unreported discussions with such countries as Kosovo and Albania underscore the administration's desire to protect U.S.-affiliated Afghans from Taliban reprisals while safely completing the process of approving their U.S. visas.
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Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "For all those who lost, sacrificed, suffered, and served in the last 20 years of war and occupation, the United States has a singular responsibility in extending safe refuge to the Afghan people.
That is the absolute floor." / Twitter
noting
Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "We have a moral obligation to the Afghan people. The U.S. role in this crisis is indisputable. We must waste no time or expense in helping refugees safely & swiftly leave Afghanistan. We must immediately welcome them to the U.S. & provide real support as they rebuild their lives." / Twitter
She then stated that her district office is ready to assist.

Rep. Barbara Lee on Twitter: "What’s happening in Afghanistan currently is a humanitarian crisis.

Let’s be clear: there has never been, and will never be, a U.S. military solution in Afghanistan.

Our top priority must be providing humanitarian aid & resettlement to Afghan refugees, women, and children. (link)" / Twitter

BL has long been opposed to  Authorization for Use of Military Force of 2001 something that she considers a blank check for military intervention.
S.J.Res.23 - 107th Congress (2001-2002): Authorization for Use of Military Force | Congress.gov | Library of Congress
 
Rana Abdelhamid on Twitter: "I was 9 years old ..." / Twitter
I was 9 years old when I watched my Congresswoman wear a burqa in Congress to justify the invasion of Afghanistan.

For the rest of my life, I knew that as a Muslim woman my identity would be weaponized to justify American wars.

20 years of war later, what did we accomplish?

Now, the US leaves a political vacuum where the same women they claimed to save are the ones paying the cost.

Now, the Taliban, an evil force of violence, has only increased its human rights abuses & destruction of Afghan civil society.

The US must hold itself accountable.

It's time to root foreign policy in peace and diplomacy — not endless wars and bottomless Pentagon budgets.

Our officials must be held accountable for misleading the public nearly every step of the way.

But right now we must do everything we can for the Afghan people who are living in fear for their lives.

We brought 20 years of war to Afghanistan and thousands of civilians were killed.

We must be accountable to the crisis we helped create.

We must welcome & bring in more Afghan refugees and support Afghan civil society.

We must immediately expedite & increase the processing capacity for Afghan refugee resettlement & make family reunification a major priority.

Anything less is unacceptable.
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RA was referring to Rep. Carolyn Maloney. She is now running against CM for her House seat, NY-12.

U.S. officials misled the public about the war in Afghanistan, confidential documents reveal - Washington Post - 2019 Dec 9 - "U.S. officials constantly said they were making progress. They were not, and they knew it, an exclusive Post investigation found."
 
 
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