Afghan "train, advise and assist" 1984 style

[Tigers!]

Isn't it great to have someone mature in the White House?

When you get someone mature in there would you please let the rest of the world know? God knows we are tired of waiting.

 

[barbos]

Was watching Amanpour CNN
https://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/2021/08/16/taliban-suhail-shaheen-amanpour-afghanistan.cnn


reminded me of this:

 

[Ford]

This is a complete failure of the Biden administration. There is no way to sugarcoat it. At least he could have ordered massive bombing of Taliban positions over the past weeks to weaken the Taliban as much as possible.

And how he is going to make another mistake and bring in tens of thousands of Afghan mass migrants without any vetting for Islamist positions. 99% of Afghans are Sharia supporters and it is insane bringing them in blindly.

View attachment 34885

I don't agree with this in the least. Would have been great if our nation building efforts had been successful. Sucks that it wasn't. If we had bombed the Taliban to shit for the next 10 years it wouldn't have mattered. We accomplished our primary goal: destroy Al-queda and stop further terrorist attacks by them. I wish that we could have helped the moderate Afgans. Maybe China will do better. Time to shift priorities...

It is hilariously predictable and also sad that Derec (and the rest of the right) think this is solely the fault of the Biden administration. He's only been in office for a little over 6 months, and his predecessor not only set the withdrawal plan in motion, but bragged about it, and actually invited the Taliban to Camp David a couple years ago. He had to cancel the meeting under pressure. On a related note, the RNC scrubbed a page on their site that praised Trump for his handling of the withdrawal.

But Trump hardly shoulders the entirety of the blame. There was another Republican President before him who led us into Afghanistan 20 years ago...anyone remember that guy? Obama also mishandled the country. Add to that the fact that (as has already been mentioned) we threw a lot of money and support at the Islamic radicals fighting the Soviets back in the 80s. And in case anybody else other than Derec missed it, we've been supporting Pakistan the entire time, which has been happily funding, arming, and providing refuge to the Taliban almost the entire time.

As for the suggestion that if we just carpet-bombed the Taliban a little more, it would make leaving easier? Um...have we all forgotten Vietnam, Nixon, and "peace with honor?" Blaming Biden for the fall of Kabul is like blaming Gerald Ford for the fall of Saigon.

Oh, and this dumbass notion that we can't take in any Afghan refugees because they "support Sharia Law?" It doesn't matter what they support. The "OMG Sharia Law" bogeyman is just good old fashioned bigotry, and wholly ignorant of this thing we have in this country (that the right really, really hates) called "separation of church and state." It applies to mosques, as well. A tiny minority of Muslims from ANY country couldn't implement Sharia Law if they wanted to.

 

[untermensche]

If you kill your enemies, they die.
The problem with US involvement in Afghanistan over the last 20 years was that it was too half-assed and not aggressive enough in fighting the enemy.

The average IQ in Afghanistan is 84. It is very tribal. Most are illiterate. Corruption is wide spread. Mix in US government incompetence, grift, and a steadfast refusal to acknowledge/fix institutional problems. No amount of military aggressiveness could have made this work.

No.

The average IQ of every group is the same. Human traits and abilities arise just as randomly in all groups.

If we are talking about mental abilities then all large groups are the same.

If we talk about a crude biased human test then exposure to ideas and modes of thought contained within the test and motivation to take the test determines outcomes.

 

[barbos]

Maybe this time will be different/

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The problem with US involvement in Afghanistan over the last 20 years was that it was too half-assed and not aggressive enough in fighting the enemy.

Oh goody. The 'if we only killed more people we'd have won' argument. We did kill people. We did imprison many others. The Taliban today isn't the Taliban of 2001. Defeating enemies like this is extraordinarily hard. Even harder when the first people trying to do it forget about the mission.

 

[Trausti]

No.

The average IQ of every group is the same. Human traits and abilities arise just as randomly in all groups.

If we are talking about mental abilities then all large groups are the same.

It’s that sort of thinking that got us into this mess. The neocons and the lefties both share this belief that people are interchangeable; that if you impose democracy these other people will behave just like us. Reality is a bitch.

 

[Trausti]

The problem with US involvement in Afghanistan over the last 20 years was that it was too half-assed and not aggressive enough in fighting the enemy.

Oh goody. The 'if we only killed more people we'd have won' argument. We did kill people. We did imprison many others. The Taliban today isn't the Taliban of 2001. Defeating enemies like this is extraordinarily hard. Even harder when the first people trying to do it forget about the mission.

It’s only extraordinarily hard because our administration of Afghanistan was extraordinarily bad. For me, the more I read about it the more I hate my government.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Isn't it great to have someone mature in the White House?

When you get someone mature in there would you please let the rest of the world know? God knows we are tired of waiting.

I think that Biden is doing a great job so far. Not perfect. Far from perfect. But here's the deal, I'd rather have an imperfect president than a dictatorship. And if Trump had overridden the election as he and his q followers tried to do, we'd have a dictatorship today.

Regardless, we obviously need to give the Taliban a chance. I don't think that it's a foregone conclusion that they'll invite the Jihadists back into their fold. They did that before, and paid a steep price. Maybe this time they'll be more circumspect. We'll see...

 

[funinspace]

This is gonna sound twisted, but the Taliban taking mass hostages as leverage to empty out Guantanamo would be a great thing.

I don't care if there are actual terrorists there. 20 years in that condition is payment enough.

Having Guantanamo end in embarrassment of having to bend the knee is the best thing possible.

Well, as we are about fully out of Afghanistan, the US government legal argument to continue holding the remaining 40 or so prisoners is going to be a lot harder to make.

A good summary of the problems we will face trying to continue holding them:
https://www.npr.org/2021/07/10/1014...o-now-that-u-s-troops-are-leaving-afghanistan

Yes, lawsuits have been filed over these issues, and courts have generally avoided specifically addressing whether these vast presidential war powers are specific to a certain geography. Instead, courts have been able to point to the war in Afghanistan as justification for holding detainees.

The House has already voted to repeal "authorization for use of military force" from 2002. If the Senate gets around to repealing it, I'd say it will be real hard not to release those people...

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

This is gonna sound twisted, but the Taliban taking mass hostages as leverage to empty out Guantanamo would be a great thing.

I don't care if there are actual terrorists there. 20 years in that condition is payment enough.

Having Guantanamo end in embarrassment of having to bend the knee is the best thing possible.

Well, as we are about fully out of Afghanistan, the US government legal argument to continue holding the remaining 40 or so prisoners is going to be a lot harder to make.

A good summary of the problems we will face trying to continue holding them:
https://www.npr.org/2021/07/10/1014...o-now-that-u-s-troops-are-leaving-afghanistan

Yes, lawsuits have been filed over these issues, and courts have generally avoided specifically addressing whether these vast presidential war powers are specific to a certain geography. Instead, courts have been able to point to the war in Afghanistan as justification for holding detainees.

The House has already voted to repeal "authorization for use of military force" from 2002. If the Senate gets around to repealing it, I'd say it will be real hard not to release those people...

Release them to... Afghanistan or the IEoA as it is now... again... would be likely the only option as very few would open their doors.

 

[ZiprHead]

The GOP quietly removed a webpage hailing Trump's peace deal with the Taliban as the militant group seized power in Afghanistan

The Republican Party has removed a page from its website that praised former President Donald Trump's peace deal with the Taliban and bid to withdraw US forces from Afghanistan.

The webpage, which was first posted on the Republican National Committee's website during last year's presidential election, had hailed Trump's foreign policy achievements. An archived version of the page can be found here.

The internet-archive site Wayback Machine noted that the page was removed on August 15, as chaotic scenes emerged from Kabul of US forces evacuating officials from its embassy as Taliban militants seized back control of the country.

 

[untermensche]

Are you suggesting hypocrisy and people that only care about winning?

 

[Trausti]

General Mike Flynn: “There is a machinery that is behind what we do, and it keeps us participating in the conflict because It generates wealth.”

 

[repoman]

Why can't we have an Infrastructure Industrial Complex instead of this crap.

 

[TomC]

The Taliban and the USA are mortal enemies. Nevertheless, we funded and armed them back in the 80s.

Taliban did not exist before 1994.

The Taliban was result of the USA. They used to be called the mujahadeen, which the Reagan/BUSH administration supported with money and weapons when they were helping fight the Cold War.

Kinda like ISIS. They're another group of violent Islamists that the USA supported when it was convenient.
Tom

 

[Gospel]

The Taliban and the USA are mortal enemies. Nevertheless, we funded and armed them back in the 80s.

Taliban did not exist before 1994.

The Taliban was result of the USA. They used to be called the mujahadeen, which the Reagan/BUSH administration supported with money and weapons when they were helping fight the Cold War.

Kinda like ISIS. They're another group of violent Islamists that the USA supported when it was convenient.
Tom

And that convenience you mentioned was most likely Oil and trade routes. Which multiple countries found it convenient enough to use Ottomans as pawns during their civil wars to divey up their lands. Then it was made worse and more complicated by broken promises and a special sauce sprinkled on top called Isreal. Europeans love writing their own dramas and then acting surprised by the ending.

 

[Trausti]

The Taliban and the USA are mortal enemies. Nevertheless, we funded and armed them back in the 80s.

Taliban did not exist before 1994.

The Taliban was result of the USA. They used to be called the mujahadeen, which the Reagan/BUSH administration supported with money and weapons when they were helping fight the Cold War.

Kinda like ISIS. They're another group of violent Islamists that the USA supported when it was convenient.
Tom

Is that right? My understanding is that they started as a sort of vigilante group against corrupt warlords. The Afgans wanted order more than anything else.

 

[TomC]

Granada, Panama, First Gulf War were huge military victories!

Does Russia have a new strategy for Afghanistan? | Conflict News | Al Jazeera - "Moscow will seek ‘pragmatic’ engagement with the Taliban after the armed group seized control of Afghanistan, analysts say."

Who do you think got Trump to push that Taliban President-to-be out of prison in Pakistan?

Come on, you need to see a doctor.
Russia has nothing to gain with Taliban in power.

Maybe not Russians as a whole.

But Putin sure does.
Like he did in Syria, he's demonstrating to the global community that the USA is falling off the "World's Sole Remaining Superpower" hill. The Taliban just kicked American butt.
Majorly.

Assad teamed up with Iran and Russia. He's still in power.

Face it. Putin wants to boot America off the top of the hill and Trump helped him do that, immensely. It wasn't hard for Putin to figure that an incompetent divisive president would help Russia regain superpower status, and so he helped get Trump into the White House. And it worked.

Probably, C19 was just an added bonus to Putin.

Tom

 

[funinspace]

Well, as we are about fully out of Afghanistan, the US government legal argument to continue holding the remaining 40 or so prisoners is going to be a lot harder to make.

A good summary of the problems we will face trying to continue holding them:
https://www.npr.org/2021/07/10/1014...o-now-that-u-s-troops-are-leaving-afghanistan



The House has already voted to repeal "authorization for use of military force" from 2002. If the Senate gets around to repealing it, I'd say it will be real hard not to release those people...

Release them to... Afghanistan or the IEoA as it is now... again... would be likely the only option as very few would open their doors.

The "where to" will certainly make US politics a PITA in dealing with the issue...