Afghan "train, advise and assist" 1984 style

[SLD]

US scrambles to evacuate citizens and allies from Afghanistan | Ashraf Ghani News | Al Jazeera - "A top US general says the collapse of Afghan forces in 11 days against the Taliban offensive was not foreseeable."

Not foreseeable? The running joke during my last tour was: “These people won’t last 20 minutes after we’re gone.” And the reply: “That long, eh?”

I predicted long ago that army units would make deals with the locals not to screw with each other. And they did indeed. I didn’t realize though that those deals would go even further and simply result in their wholesale surrender. But it’s obvious. Once the Taliban made initial gains the collapse just rapidly accelerated. What was the point of resisting once it became clear what the inevitable outcome was going to be. Unlike in Vietnam, they could make deals with the opposition so that they will not likely be harmed or imprisoned. They had the opportunity to join the winning side.

In truth the Afghans are just tired of 42 years of unrelenting warfare. I really don’t blame them. At this point, everyone needs to come to terms with the reality and move on. I sincerely hope that Afghanistan finds peace and is able to mend itself after all this shit. I even think we should help, provided they don’t allow for Al Qaeda to establish safe havens, or start some genocidal campaign against the Hazaras or other ethnic minorities. Co opt them, instead of obstruct them. As long as we aren’t attacked again, I could care less what kind of fucked up religion they want to follow and use as their government.

The US military needs to utterly review and revise its counterinsurgency strategy. But we don’t need to beat ourselves up too much. We did what we could for 20 years, it was time to get the fuck out of there. We have other strategic priorities. This isn’t the end of the United States. There are a lot of wrong lessons to take from this.

 

[SLD]

And now comes the hard part: governing. It’s one thing to defeat your enemy as we learned in 02. It’s quite another to establish effective governance.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/...lamic-emirate-faces-early-challenges-n1277130

On the one hand they need the support of previous regime supporters and bureaucracy. They can’t risk alienating the the entire population who have become used to having certain rights that they actually like.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Confused Democrat Richard Spencer Applauds Biden for Screwing Up in Afghanistan

 

[ZiprHead]

Confused Democrat Richard Spencer Applauds Biden for Screwing Up in Afghanistan

It's rare that I, without hesitation or irony, say "I'm proud of my president." Today, I'm proud of Joe Biden. He made a tough call—but clearly the right one. He admitted to failure, acted decisively, and articulated principles for moving forward. He did what Trump couldn't.

By actually following through on Trump's plan.

 

[untermensche]

Confused Democrat Richard Spencer Applauds Biden for Screwing Up in Afghanistan

Biden didn't screw up.

By some miracle he did the right thing.

We stay another 20 years and the same thing will happen when we leave.

Not learning from the Soviet example and thinking the US was somehow more capable than the Soviets was the screwing up part.

Every president that kept us there screwed up.

GW Bush deciding to change the government when he had no UN mandate to do that was screwing up.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Biden did get to the end result, for which he deserves credit, but he did bungle every single step of the process. That's why so much equipment was left behind and the last people were lifted by helicopter out of the embassy.

The good part of the withdraw is that it actually happened. The bad part was the "skill" involved in making it happen.

 

[lpetrich]

Zaki Anwari: Afghan footballer fell to death from US plane | Taliban News | Al Jazeera - "Afghanistan sports federation says Anwari, who played for the national youth football team, died in chaos at the airport."

This is soccer, not American football.

In a harrowing video from the airport on Monday, hundreds of people were seen running alongside a US Air Force plane as it gathered speed on the runway – several men desperately holding onto the side.

Further clips on social media appeared to show two people falling to their deaths from a C-17 aircraft after it took off.

Human remains were later found in a wheel well, the US military confirmed, adding that it was investigating the reported deaths linked to the C-17.

“Before the air crew could offload the cargo, the aircraft was surrounded by hundreds of Afghan civilians,” US Air Force spokeswoman Ann Stefanek said.

“Faced with a rapidly deteriorating security situation around the aircraft, the C-17 crew decided to depart the airfield as quickly as possible.”

 

[untermensche]

Biden did get to the end result, for which he deserves credit, but he did bungle every single step of the process. That's why so much equipment was left behind and the last people were lifted by helicopter out of the embassy.

The good part of the withdraw is that it actually happened. The bad part was the "skill" involved in making it happen.

Guess what?

Biden wasn't on the ground doing anything.

He was sitting in Washington.

It's like a bandaid.

You rip it all off at once.

Leave those people their nation.

And work to make the nation democratic.

Probably not going to happen for a long time but democracy from within is the only solution.

Cultures can't be forced to evolve.

And the US is not all that evolved to stand as an example people should aspire to.

 

[lpetrich]

Anti-Taliban protests spread across Afghanistan cities: Live News | Taliban News | Al Jazeera - "At least two people were killed in Asadabad city when the Taliban opened fire as Afghans mark independence day."

In Jalalabad, Taliban fighters fired at people waving the Afghan flag during independence day celebrations, injuring a man and a teenage boy.

Al Jazeera’s Charlotte Bellis, reporting from Kabul, said: “There were some isolated protests linked to the flag in Kabul as well, with people, including women, walking down the streets past Taliban fighters waving the old flag and saying: ‘Our flag is our identity.'”

Meanwhile, evacuations continue from Kabul’s airport.

Two reported killed as Taliban fire on crowds protesting takeover | News | Al Jazeera - "Anti-Taliban protests and attempts to raise the Afghan flag spread on the day Afghans mark 1919 independence from British rule."

Protests against the Taliban’s takeover in Afghanistan have spread to more cities, including the capital Kabul, while the armed group called on the country’s imams to urge unity at Friday prayers, the first since they seized control.

At least two people were killed on Thursday when the Taliban fired on a crowd in Asadabad in the eastern province of Kunar, witnesses told Al Jazeera.

It was unclear if the casualties resulted from Taliban firing or from a stampede.

Live: Photos and Videos Tracker from Afghanistan - The New York Times

On Thursday, Afghanistan’s Hazara minority, most of whom are Shiite Muslims, observed Ashura, in which Shiites commemorate the death of Imam Hussain, grandson of the prophet Muhammad.

Ashura events in Kabul have been attacked by suicide bombers several times in recent years, with some of the bombings claimed by the Islamic State, which considers Hazaras heretics. Hazaras have been attacked and persecuted in Afghanistan for generations.

With Collapse in Afghanistan, Russia Takes Charge in Central Asia - The New York Times - "Along with Pakistan and China, Russia has gained broad influence in security matters at the expense of the United States and India."

In the long post-Soviet jostling for power and influence in Central Asia sometimes called the new Great Game, an ever more dominant player has emerged from the chaos and confusion of Afghanistan: Russia, at least in security affairs.

“I wouldn’t say a wounded animal,” the Russian foreign minister, Sergey V. Lavrov, said on Tuesday of the withdrawal of NATO and the U.S. forces from Afghanistan. “But this is a group of countries that in a very painful and difficult way is giving up on the positions in the world they were used to for many decades.”

 

[Trausti]

 

[untermensche]

Who ever thought useless imperial adventures were hard to exit?

 

[Swammerdami]

Well, Tom, making Biden president must be Putin’s masterstroke.

No, that was Trump.

Rather like Obama being left with the wreckage of the Bush Economy, Biden is left with the wreckage of Trump's policies.

Blaming Biden for failing to wave a magic wand and repair the damage done by his predecessors is irrational, but expected.


Too bad we can't ask Iran to help stabilize Afghanistan. They're staunch Islamists and have a powerful military force on the Afghanistan border. They'd have way more clout than we do. If Obama had gotten his way, we'd be nearly a decade into a peaceful and cooperative relationship with Iran. Unfortunately, Trump and the TeaParty aren't interested in peace and prosperity, so here we are.

Getting our asses kicked by some diaperheads in Afghanistan after 20 years!
Tom

Ah, Tom, most agree this Afghanistan misadventure must end. But we’d like it done competently. Putin chose Biden to be president to ensure that didn’t happen.

The meme that other super-powers are delighted to see the U.S. fail in Afghanistan is absurd. This "Game of Thrones" is not a zero-sum game. To the north of Afghanistan are several Muslim-majority countries with names ending in -stan. Putin and Xi will NOT be happy to see radical Islamism gain a strong foothold in the heart of Central Asia.

 

[Swammerdami]

First of all, I am not on the right.
Second, no, the mess in Afghanistan is not solely Biden's fault, but he bears a significant portion of the fault. The mess that is the actual withdrawal IS solely his administration's fault, because he is the CinC.

You keep saying you are "not on the right" but if you walk like a duck and quack like a duck, what does the proverb tell us to conclude? I don't hear you criticize Trump who signed a treaty with the Taliban, promising to leave before Biden did. Nor do I hear you complain about Cheney who started this trillion-dollar fiasco in part to enrich his buddies in the munitions business.

And the sentence with "IS solely" is grade-school prattle, suggesting you are unable to cope with nuance.

I was curious how someone "not on the right" could spend 99.9% of his political comments targeting only Democrats. I didn't want to Search for "Derec: Trump" — too many hits — so I searched for "Derec: Bolton." According to TFT Search you've used the word just once, and that was only in an embedded quote:

Well, adding to your post: Trump's likely secretary of state, John Bolton favors the US invading Iran. HRC, as Obama's secretary of state, favored a 10-year treaty with Iran. The difference is clear.

10 year treaty, after which they are free to develop nuclear weapons without sanctions. Brilliant!

Ten years is a long time in this "Game of Thrones." That your Pavlovian response to Bosch's quote was to suggest that the laughable diction "in perpetuity" would be preferable — rather than telling us how you felt about Bolton — tells us more about you than about HRC, Bolton or Iran.

 

[Derec]

View attachment 34902

Dude, check out those heels...I think I saw some ankle...

Looks like Clarkston, GA ...

 

[Derec]

https://southfront.org/leaked-audio...e-john-kerry-shows-obama-wanted-isis-to-grow/
Russia bombed the shit out of ISIS, US was just watching how ISIS was growing and hoping to use them to get Assad.

Southfront? Really?

Treasury Escalates Sanctions Against the Russian Government’s Attempts to Influence U.S. Elections

The FSB directly operates disinformation outlets. SouthFront is an online disinformation site registered in Russia that receives taskings from the FSB. It attempts to appeal to military enthusiasts, veterans, and conspiracy theorists, all while going to great lengths to hide its connections to Russian intelligence. In the aftermath of the 2020 U.S. presidential election, SouthFront sought to promote perceptions of voter fraud by publishing content alleging that such activity took place during the 2020 U.S. presidential election cycle.

 

[Derec]

Unlike such rhetoric, many Republican politicians have been pushing for accepting more refugees from Afghanistan.

Very foolish. Vast majority of Afghans are Islamists who should not be eligible for US visas. Let's not repeat the mistakes done with Somalis.
How Minneapolis' Somali community became the terrorist recruitment capital of the US


Any Afghan resettlement into US needs to be very limited and subject to scrutiny over Islamist beliefs.

 

[barbos]

https://southfront.org/leaked-audio...e-john-kerry-shows-obama-wanted-isis-to-grow/
Russia bombed the shit out of ISIS, US was just watching how ISIS was growing and hoping to use them to get Assad.

Southfront? Really?

Treasury Escalates Sanctions Against the Russian Government’s Attempts to Influence U.S. Elections

The FSB directly operates disinformation outlets. SouthFront is an online disinformation site registered in Russia that receives taskings from the FSB. It attempts to appeal to military enthusiasts, veterans, and conspiracy theorists, all while going to great lengths to hide its connections to Russian intelligence. In the aftermath of the 2020 U.S. presidential election, SouthFront sought to promote perceptions of voter fraud by publishing content alleging that such activity took place during the 2020 U.S. presidential election cycle.

I have no idea why you posted this reply. I posted a link to John Kerry phone conversation intercept where he spills out why US choose not to bomb the shit out of ISIS.

 

[Derec]

Dealing with that would have required a nuclear war.

The Ripley Doctrine?

 

[Derec]

Bombs are good at weakening an enemy, but they can't defeat the enemy. That requires boots on the ground.

Weakening Taliban from present 75k to <25k would have been a major deal. Maybe even the Afghan Army would have felt better about the odds.

 

[Derec]

Kill all males with IQ below 80 (coincidentally these are all taliban foot soldiers ) and don't empty your prisons because these people is not better genetic material than taliban. Keep doing it for the next 20-50 years and Afghanistan becomes more less average country. Right now, retarded have a huge advantage in propagating their genes over regular people. All you need to do is to join taliban and (assuming you don't blow yourself up) you will be assigned a "wife" to produce more idiots at a rate of 1.33 idiots per year.

Why kill just males? Females propagate their genes too?