African Migrants to Italy pass on to other countries.

[whichphilosophy]

"Italy Is Allowing Migrants Who Survive the Voyage to 'Disappear' Into Europe;" reads a newsweek article a couple of months ago

Italy does not have an effective welfare state to cover people who have never had a job. Further it has its own economic problems with the national debt and unemployment
According to this and other articles the most popular destinations are Germany and the UK

I see more and more arrive and some parts of Milan Central station were reserved for serving food and providing shelter.

http://www.newsweek.com/2015/05/01/...o-survive-voyage-disappear-europe-323832.html

 

[Derec]

Why should either Italy or Europe accept unlimited number of illegal African aliens?

 

[TSwizzle]

Why should either Italy or Europe accept unlimited number of illegal African aliens?

What's the alternative ?

 

[Derec]

What's the alternative ?

Not letting them in.
Letting them in just encourages more to come. Last I checked Africa had significantly larger population than Europe and much, much higher birth rate.
Also with illegal immigration you have no controls who comes in. With legal immigration you have some control to let in people who would be more likely to integrate into society well.

 

[TSwizzle]

What's the alternative ?

Not letting them in.
Letting them in just encourages more to come. Last I checked Africa had significantly larger population than Europe and much, much higher birth rate.
Also with illegal immigration you have no controls who comes in. With legal immigration you have some control to let in people who would be more likely to integrate into society well.

The not letting them in seems to end with masses of them drowning at sea. Is that what you are proposing ? Seems a tad cold.

 

[Derec]

The not letting them in seems to end with masses of them drowning at sea. Is that what you are proposing ? Seems a tad cold.

How about intercept them and return them to where they came from?
The problem with giving them a free pass is that you encourage more and more to take the perilous journey themselves (moral hazard), probably causing more drownings in the long run than if you'd have done nothing.

 

[credoconsolans]

What's the alternative? Sending them back. Most of them are not running from murderous regimes. Just bad economies. Their bad luck. Send them back.

 

[bilby]

What's the alternative? Sending them back. Most of them are not running from murderous regimes. Just bad economies. Their bad luck. Send them back.

To where?

They have no incentive to tell you where they came from; and even if they do, their country of departure won't accept them back without documentary proof that they are citizens - proof which they are generally smart enough to have destroyed.

And that assumes that their point of departure in Africa is their country of citizenship - which it probably isn't.

"Send them back" only sounds like a good idea if you don't think about it too hard. Actually it is impossible for the authorities to follow that instruction, even if the politicians are stupid enough to issue it.

 

[barbos]

But what is the alternative to sending them back?
I find it is mildly amusing that illegal immigration seems to be much easier than legal one.
I am not speaking about danger of going through the sea here.

 

[barbos]

What's the alternative? Sending them back. Most of them are not running from murderous regimes. Just bad economies. Their bad luck. Send them back.

To where?

They have no incentive to tell you where they came from; and even if they do, their country of departure won't accept them back without documentary proof that they are citizens - proof which they are generally smart enough to have destroyed.

And that assumes that their point of departure in Africa is their country of citizenship - which it probably isn't.

"Send them back" only sounds like a good idea if you don't think about it too hard. Actually it is impossible for the authorities to follow that instruction, even if the politicians are stupid enough to issue it.

This is actually all good points.
But what if they make a rule - "Once we know who you are or were you came from we automatically deport you"?
So the only way for them to immigrate would be complete and utter break with anybody in the home country and complete and utter integration into local culture. Europe has had problems with immigrants who don't want to integrate, here is a chance to change that, at least for illegal immigrants. There is a price you pay for illegal immigration.

 

[whichphilosophy]

What's the alternative ?

Not letting them in.
Letting them in just encourages more to come. Last I checked Africa had significantly larger population than Europe and much, much higher birth rate.
Also with illegal immigration you have no controls who comes in. With legal immigration you have some control to let in people who would be more likely to integrate into society well.

Some of the Last forms government in Libya is or was trying to control the flow of migrants. The immigration policy is similar to that of other middle eastern countries.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0vtLspGbmg

 

[whichphilosophy]

Not letting them in.
Letting them in just encourages more to come. Last I checked Africa had significantly larger population than Europe and much, much higher birth rate.
Also with illegal immigration you have no controls who comes in. With legal immigration you have some control to let in people who would be more likely to integrate into society well.

The not letting them in seems to end with masses of them drowning at sea. Is that what you are proposing ? Seems a tad cold.

The majority economic migrants who know that once they set foot in Europe they can then roam about to other countries where Germany and the UK are normally regarded as the most amenable places to go.
Italy is better off than Greece, but already charges every company about 30% social security to the government for each person they employ. In Milan I am seeing a few hundred a day in Milan Central Station, but the Italian security system does not generally provide assistance to someone who never held a job.
Libya used to be a popular place for immigrants. Before the civil war Libya used to block non authorised entry to the country.
The stream of migrants has increased recently.
Little is being done to stop immigration at the source. In fact no smugglers have been arrested according to this YOUTUBE report.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0vtLspGbmg

 

[whichphilosophy]

To where?

They have no incentive to tell you where they came from; and even if they do, their country of departure won't accept them back without documentary proof that they are citizens - proof which they are generally smart enough to have destroyed.

And that assumes that their point of departure in Africa is their country of citizenship - which it probably isn't.

"Send them back" only sounds like a good idea if you don't think about it too hard. Actually it is impossible for the authorities to follow that instruction, even if the politicians are stupid enough to issue it.

This is actually all good points.
But what if they make a rule - "Once we know who you are or were you came from we automatically deport you"?
So the only way for them to immigrate would be complete and utter break with anybody in the home country and complete and utter integration into local culture. Europe has had problems with immigrants who don't want to integrate, here is a chance to change that, at least for illegal immigrants. There is a price you pay for illegal immigration.

The problem now is the volume when most European nations have problems looking after themselves. The Euro has also depreciated in the past year. Luckily for myself I am paid in Middle Eastern currency so the value in Italy has gone up over 20%.
Unfortunately all the African states failed. Millions are now selling up and seeking Europe as a final destination

 

[bleubird]

I see it as payback for colonialism of Africa by Europeans.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

This is actually all good points.
But what if they make a rule - "Once we know who you are or were you came from we automatically deport you"?
So the only way for them to immigrate would be complete and utter break with anybody in the home country and complete and utter integration into local culture. Europe has had problems with immigrants who don't want to integrate, here is a chance to change that, at least for illegal immigrants. There is a price you pay for illegal immigration.

The problem now is the volume when most European nations have problems looking after themselves. The Euro has also depreciated in the past year. Luckily for myself I am paid in Middle Eastern currency so the value in Italy has gone up over 20%.
Unfortunately all the African states failed. Millions are now selling up and seeking Europe as a final destination

Your from Italy correct?

Here in the US we often absorb such people, but we did have a problem with a couple of groups of refugees who had promised to go back once their murderous regimes changed to friendly ones. They had settled here and had jobs and families, bought property but were told to leave once these regimes fell from power.

 

[whichphilosophy]

The problem now is the volume when most European nations have problems looking after themselves. The Euro has also depreciated in the past year. Luckily for myself I am paid in Middle Eastern currency so the value in Italy has gone up over 20%.
Unfortunately all the African states failed. Millions are now selling up and seeking Europe as a final destination

Your from Italy correct?

Here in the US we often absorb such people, but we did have a problem with a couple of groups of refugees who had promised to go back once their murderous regimes changed to friendly ones. They had settled here and had jobs and families, bought property but were told to leave once these regimes fell from power.

The problem in Italy is a lack of money. Go into Italian shops and unlike the UK there are very few foreign goods. Wages are low (which I found out when visiting local companies here on business) and the tax levels are high. The amount who want to come over runs into tens of millions which will cause various problems due to a lack of resources.

 

[credoconsolans]

What's the alternative? Sending them back. Most of them are not running from murderous regimes. Just bad economies. Their bad luck. Send them back.

To where?

They have no incentive to tell you where they came from; and even if they do, their country of departure won't accept them back without documentary proof that they are citizens - proof which they are generally smart enough to have destroyed.

And that assumes that their point of departure in Africa is their country of citizenship - which it probably isn't.

"Send them back" only sounds like a good idea if you don't think about it too hard. Actually it is impossible for the authorities to follow that instruction, even if the politicians are stupid enough to issue it.

Destroying all their paperwork is a lot easier than learning a new language. I doubt someone from one country was suddenly was able to learn coastal dialects before shipping off to Europe.

Most locals can spot a foreign accent a mile off. All the country of origin has to do is intern them until they figure it out. If they bitch about the cost, maybe they need to patrol their waters and keep an eye on their criminal illegal element better.

 

[whichphilosophy]

The problem now is the volume when most European nations have problems looking after themselves. The Euro has also depreciated in the past year. Luckily for myself I am paid in Middle Eastern currency so the value in Italy has gone up over 20%.
Unfortunately all the African states failed. Millions are now selling up and seeking Europe as a final destination

Your from Italy correct?

Here in the US we often absorb such people, but we did have a problem with a couple of groups of refugees who had promised to go back once their murderous regimes changed to friendly ones. They had settled here and had jobs and families, bought property but were told to leave once these regimes fell from power.

I'm currently in Italy on assignment from my employer based in Abu Dhabi from where I am employed on contract. Me I'm British by birth mixture of Polish, Russian, Portugese and Scottish with Filipina wife.

- - - Updated - - -

I see it as payback for colonialism of Africa by Europeans.

This is their counter attack but I thought the best strategy is to drive them to Alaska.

 

[Angra Mainyu]

I see it as payback for colonialism of Africa by Europeans.

In order to be payback, you need a guilty party as the target. The vast majority of the people living today in Europe were born after the colonialist actions took place, and hence are not guilty.

 

[credoconsolans]

I see it as payback for colonialism of Africa by Europeans.

In order to be payback, you need a guilty party as the target. The vast majority of the people living today in Europe were born after the colonialist actions took place, and hence are not guilty.

And the fact that the colonialists did not become a burden to an existing infrastrucuture. In many cases, the colonialists created the infrastructure and were themselves the higher income class.

Sadly not the situation here.