Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

[Loren Pechtel]

Pointing out real problems doesn't mean she has real solutions.

Doesn't mean she doesn't have real solutions either.

The point is accuracy in pointing out problems is not evidence of the workability of her proposed solutions.

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I find it utterly amazing the level of attention and vitriol a neophyte member of the House of Representatives is receiving. AOC has virtually no power to cause any change at this time. What are all of these people afraid of?

She's nutty enough she provides a convenient target for the right to attack. Hence lots of news coverage.

There is nothing "nutty" about her

Apparently way too many conservative snowflakes are wildly triggered by an attractive articulate young woman. They are the ones that are 'nutty"

100% green energy in 12 years is loony-bin territory.

1) We don't have the storage.

2) We couldn't build the equipment that fast even if we had the storage technology.

 

[laughing dog]

The point is accuracy in pointing out problems is not evidence of the workability of her proposed solutions.

No one made such a claim. You've already shown you are ignorant of her actual goals, so you can have no idea about her solutions or the workability.

100% green energy in 12 years is loony-bin territory.

It is a goal to work towards, not a mandate.

1) We don't have the storage.

2) We couldn't build the equipment that fast even if we had the storage technology.

No one is claiming this is feasible today. That is why she is proposing a GOAL. Perhaps the problem here is that you do not understand that a goal is something to try to accomplish. Frankly, no one can have a real idea what improvements or breakthroughs will occur in the generation and storage of energy from renewable resources. That does not mean the people of the world should not work towards those improvements. I seriously doubt your projections are any more accurate or realistic than those my dog makes.

 

[Worldtraveller]

No one made such a claim. You've already shown you are ignorant of her actual goals, so you can have no idea about her solutions or the workability.
It is a goal to work towards, not a mandate.

1) We don't have the storage.

2) We couldn't build the equipment that fast even if we had the storage technology.

No one is claiming this is feasible today. That is why she is proposing a GOAL. Perhaps the problem here is that you do not understand that a goal is something to try to accomplish. Frankly, no one can have a real idea what improvements or breakthroughs will occur in the generation and storage of energy from renewable resources. That does not mean the people of the world should not work towards those improvements. I seriously doubt your projections are any more accurate or realistic than those my dog makes.

Exactly. I'm pretty sure most people thought getting to the moon was impossible before the end of 1969 also. Given the state of much of our technology when JFK gave his famous speech, they wouldn't have been wrong to think so.

And yet....

Although, given LP's expounding on so many other things he clearly doesn't know anything about, this is not a surprising position for him to take.

 

[lpetrich]

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is the Democrats' Trump - Axios illustrated with a picture of a blue cap that states "Make America Woke Again".

Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-N.Y.) has attracted more online and media attention this year than any Democrat running for president.

Why it matters: Like President Trump in 2016, Ocasio-Cortez has mastered Twitter while at the same time acting as a magnet in the digital and cable news ecosystem.

Her social media stardom follows her around the web, sucking an entire news cycle in around her. That amplifies her media presence, making it feel even bigger than it is on social media itself.

Coverage of Ocasio-Cortez is more likely to be picked up by news websites from social media than any other Dem, according to data from social analytics company Parse.ly that was pulled for Axios.

 

[poster]

She's one of a kind so far because she's doing this without the connections someone like Trump enjoys. I seriously worry for her safety and hope her fate may not be similar to that of Paul Wellstone, who arguably ended up giving his life for progressive causes.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

No one made such a claim. You've already shown you are ignorant of her actual goals, so you can have no idea about her solutions or the workability.
It is a goal to work towards, not a mandate.

1) We don't have the storage.

2) We couldn't build the equipment that fast even if we had the storage technology.

No one is claiming this is feasible today. That is why she is proposing a GOAL. Perhaps the problem here is that you do not understand that a goal is something to try to accomplish. Frankly, no one can have a real idea what improvements or breakthroughs will occur in the generation and storage of energy from renewable resources. That does not mean the people of the world should not work towards those improvements. I seriously doubt your projections are any more accurate or realistic than those my dog makes.

When you set an unattainable goal you ensure failure and since failure is certain there's a lot less incentive to try.

Kennedy's goal was a man on the Moon. Tough but within the realm of possibility. It took a lot of effort, it took some pretty major risks but we did it. Suppose he had said Venus, though? Would anyone have busted their ass trying to accomplish it? Only fools would have.

This is the problem with her goal--since anyone who understands the situation knows it's impossible why put out any great effort to accomplish it? While some fools in the business world suggest such an approach good managers understand it just makes the workers not care.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Exactly. I'm pretty sure most people thought getting to the moon was impossible before the end of 1969 also. Given the state of much of our technology when JFK gave his famous speech, they wouldn't have been wrong to think so.

No. The moon was horrendously difficult, not impossible. The people that built the birds could grab an envelope and a slide rule and figure out roughly what it would take. 9.4 km/sec to orbit, 3.08 km/sec for the burn to the moon, .82 km/sec to capture to low orbit, 1.73 km/sec to land, 1.73 km/sec to take off, .82 km/sec for the ejection burn = 17.58 km/sec plus a safety margin. Hydrolox gives 5.3 km/sec exhaust velocity, you need 3.32 times that for the mission, e^3.32 = 27.6, your payload is about 4% of the launch. Fiendish but not impossible. (And they figured out how to cut the fuel considerably by not taking everything down to the surface, more than making up for the fact they couldn't store hydrolox long enough to use it at the moon.)

Although, given LP's expounding on so many other things he clearly doesn't know anything about, this is not a surprising position for him to take.

It's a lot easier to say I don't know anything than to address reality.

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Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is the Democrats' Trump - Axios illustrated with a picture of a blue cap that states "Make America Woke Again".

Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-N.Y.) has attracted more online and media attention this year than any Democrat running for president.

Why it matters: Like President Trump in 2016, Ocasio-Cortez has mastered Twitter while at the same time acting as a magnet in the digital and cable news ecosystem.

Her social media stardom follows her around the web, sucking an entire news cycle in around her. That amplifies her media presence, making it feel even bigger than it is on social media itself.

Coverage of Ocasio-Cortez is more likely to be picked up by news websites from social media than any other Dem, according to data from social analytics company Parse.ly that was pulled for Axios.

In my experience "woke" generally refers to belief in a conspiracy theory or other far-out idea (for example, preppers.)

 

[laughing dog]

No one made such a claim. You've already shown you are ignorant of her actual goals, so you can have no idea about her solutions or the workability.
It is a goal to work towards, not a mandate.

1) We don't have the storage.

2) We couldn't build the equipment that fast even if we had the storage technology.

No one is claiming this is feasible today. That is why she is proposing a GOAL. Perhaps the problem here is that you do not understand that a goal is something to try to accomplish. Frankly, no one can have a real idea what improvements or breakthroughs will occur in the generation and storage of energy from renewable resources. That does not mean the people of the world should not work towards those improvements. I seriously doubt your projections are any more accurate or realistic than those my dog makes.

When you set an unattainable goal you ensure failure and since failure is certain there's a lot less incentive to try.

Kennedy's goal was a man on the Moon. Tough but within the realm of possibility. It took a lot of effort, it took some pretty major risks but we did it. Suppose he had said Venus, though? Would anyone have busted their ass trying to accomplish it? Only fools would have.

This is the problem with her goal--since anyone who understands the situation knows it's impossible why put out any great effort to accomplish it? While some fools in the business world suggest such an approach good managers understand it just makes the workers not care.

Anyone who understands the situation understands no one can have a real idea what improvements or breakthroughs will occur in the generation and storage of energy from renewable resources. That does not mean the people of the world should not work towards those improvements.

Anyone who understands the situations understands you have demonstrated you did not even bother to actually inform yourself of her actual policy.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

In my experience "woke" generally refers to belief in a conspiracy theory or other far-out idea (for example, preppers.)

No, "woke" means socially aware. It is probably also used by way of parody for the types of things you are talking about in places you'd read. But that doesn't mean that is its literal meaning.

 

[PyramidHead]

RE: how realistic or practical is policy proposal XYZ whose intended goal is to help prevent global ecological catastrophe through economic legislation

If there was ever a time to set a stretch goal, this is probably it. Even if we miss it by quite a bit, we'd still be on our way towards where we need to be going anyway, transitioning away from fossil fuels and toward renewable or at least less carbon-sequestering forms of energy.

In a situation like this, where it is no exaggeration to say the decisions we make now are likely to have implications for the livability of our planet and not just some of its contingent qualities, what is to be lost by going all-in on an ambitious plan?

Do you imagine that rejecting it will mean another, less ambitious plan will replace it, and that we'll carry it out to the letter and everything will be fine? You talk about "good managers", but experienced leaders know getting to the end of a project that accomplished all its goals means they didn't set high enough goals.

 

[Trausti]

In my experience "woke" generally refers to belief in a conspiracy theory or other far-out idea (for example, preppers.)

"Woke" is the "born again" of the new religion.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

I guess there is reason for people to pretend that woke means something it doesn't. While it means socially aware, that implies various persons are not socially aware and those persons may be offended...so much so...that they want to say woke means something they wouldn't want to be in the first place. Kind of like the fox saying the grapes are sour but maybe the grapes shouldn't have been so enticing in the first place. Bad grapes. Bad!

 

[lpetrich]

Charlie Spiering on Twitter: "“It sounds like a high school term paper that got a low mark” Trump says about @AOC New Green deal."
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "Ah yes, a man who can’t even read briefings written in full sentences is providing literary criticism of a House Resolution. (“Reading the intelligence book is not Trump’s preferred ‘style of learning,’ according to a person with knowledge of the situation.” - @washingtonpost)… https://t.co/Ru0Ub1r75E"

Banks weigh whether to embrace or avoid progressive firebrand Ocasio-Cortez | Reuters
David Freedlander on Twitter: "One more accomplishment for @AOC: she has flummoxed banking lobbyists https://t.co/KAv6gUclHJ"
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "‘Central to @AOC’s campaign has been rejection of corporate, closing off a traditional avenue for industry influence on Capitol Hill.’ ”The fear is, it's like going in to talk to the FBI, anything you do or say can be used against you,” said one lobbyist for a major bank.”… https://t.co/vAuENFFhrI"
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "There’s no reason to be afraid of lawmakers if everyday people are being respected, protected, and taken care of. Now, if financial companies are engaging in predatory practices and ripping off working/middle class families & the poor, then yes, there will be an issue."

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "“There is a wide gulf between the political center + the moral center. What is different now is that the moral center — what is right — is popular. So they yell “socialism!” “Venezuela!” “extremism!” ... to spread fear to protect a discredited political center.” - @RevJJackson… https://t.co/evfP1PALN8"

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "RIP our post-it wall We were told it had to be taken down... So we moved it inside instead … "
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "It just appeared one day. Some mothers came by & left 2-3 encouraging notes on my plaque. We left them up, bc it was great to read those little encouraging words every morning. Soon, more post-its came. It became a little ritual for the public, so we left stacks out for people.… https://t.co/F3uTzfVMGX"

 

[Trausti]

I guess there is reason for people to pretend that woke means something it doesn't. While it means socially aware, that implies various persons are not socially aware and those persons may be offended...so much so...that they want to say woke means something they wouldn't want to be in the first place. Kind of like the fox saying the grapes are sour but maybe the grapes shouldn't have been so enticing in the first place. Bad grapes. Bad!

Damn. You're like a religious zealot about it. The difference between you and a religious fundamentalist who exclaims the atheist/heretic denies truth is what, exactly?

 

[Derec]

I guess there is reason for people to pretend that woke means something it doesn't. While it means socially aware,

It's not the same thing. It's being (or at least thinking oneself as being) socially aware in a very particular way. If you are socially aware but come to different conclusions than those who invented the term "woke", then you are not "woke" but are still socially aware.

 

[Derec]

She's one of a kind so far because she's doing this without the connections someone like Trump enjoys. I seriously worry for her safety and hope her fate may not be similar to that of Paul Wellstone, who arguably ended up giving his life for progressive causes.

Don't worry. She won't be travelling on any small planes because she takes the train everywhere, right?

 

[Derec]

Her exact quote is ICE does"not deserve a dime until they can prove that they are honoring human rights, until they can make a good-faith effort to expand and embrace immigrants.” which is not that same as a unilateral defunding of ICE.

It is in practice. She doesn't want ICE to deport illegals. Note that in the section you quoted below, she thinks there is a "human right" to migration.

As to your claim that Latinos "cannot be illegal", her precise words are
"We have to have respect for children, respect for families, respect for human rights and respect for the right of human mobility. Because it is a right. It is a right. Because we are standing on native land, and Latino people are descendants of native people,” Ocasio-Cortez said. “And we cannot be told and criminalized simply for our identity or our status. Period.”
Which is not the same as saying Latinos cannot be illegal.

Just like as with the Kamala Harris hypocrisy thread, you are exhibiting a lack of reading comprehension. She claims that US is "native land" and that Latinos are "descendents of native people" and therefore cannot be illegal no matter their "status" (i.e. immigration status).

You seem to be misinformed.

Wrong. Unlike you, I can distill and understand the meaning of her words.

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This is new?

That laughing dog fails to understand something but thinks I am misinformed? Unfortunately, no, this is getting very old...

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Australia, if all the polling is correct, is about to take a sharp turn to the left come federal elections in May.

Does that mean they will allow all the illegal migrant boats again? SMH.

 

[PyramidHead]

I guess there is reason for people to pretend that woke means something it doesn't. While it means socially aware, that implies various persons are not socially aware and those persons may be offended...so much so...that they want to say woke means something they wouldn't want to be in the first place. Kind of like the fox saying the grapes are sour but maybe the grapes shouldn't have been so enticing in the first place. Bad grapes. Bad!

Damn. You're like a religious zealot about it. The difference between you and a religious fundamentalist who exclaims the atheist/heretic denies truth is what, exactly?

Everybody has moral opinions that, when pressed, they would denounce other people for disagreeing with.

 

[laughing dog]

It is in practice.

No, it is not in "practice".

She doesn't want ICE to deport illegals. Note that in the section you quoted below, she thinks there is a "human right" to migration.

That does not mean she does not want ICE to deport no undocumented aliens.

Just like as with the Kamala Harris hypocrisy thread, you are exhibiting a lack of reading comprehension. She claims that US is "native land" and that Latinos are "descendents of native people" and therefore cannot be illegal no matter their "status" (i.e. immigration status).

You are right, this is just like the Kamala Harris hypocrisy thread where your bigoted ideology drives you to literally make up claims. You are making projections onto her. If you have quotes that actually back up your claims, produce them.

Wrong. Unlike you, I can distill and understand the meaning of her words.

That is true. Unlike me, you are literally making this stuff up.

So, I apologize, I was wrong, you are not misinformed. You are addlepated or intellectually dishonest.

 

[Arctish]

It is in practice. She doesn't want ICE to deport illegals. Note that in the section you quoted below, she thinks there is a "human right" to migration.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." --- The Declaration of Independence

Americans recognize the right of people to pursue their happiness. Both the UN Convention on Human Rights and US law recognize the right of people to apply for asylum at the US border.

As laughing dog pointed out, AOC said ICE does "not deserve a dime until they can prove that they are honoring human rights, until they can make a good-faith effort to expand and embrace immigrants.” This implies she'd agree ICE deserves funding if its agents stopped violating US law and human rights by imprisoning asylum seekers, and stopped harassing/mistreating people suspected of being immigrants.

I agree with her, btw. I think any government agency with a well founded reputation for abusing asylum seekers and traumatizing children, and for being an instrument that allows an Administration to act outside of historic Constitutional constraints on the Executive Branch wrt immigration and domestic affairs, should not be funded. It should be terminated.