An Unbelievable Story of Rape

[laughing dog]

Of course with hindsight.

Since the police did not follow protocol, it was obvious from the start.

It took 5 or 6 cases for this guy to be caught, he was good, the cops were lucky.

They would have been "luckier" if they had tested the hair on the sheet from the 1st victim instead of bullying her into recanting.

 

[coloradoatheist]

Since the police did not follow protocol, it was obvious from the start.

It took 5 or 6 cases for this guy to be caught, he was good, the cops were lucky.

They would have been "luckier" if they had tested the hair on the sheet from the 1st victim instead of bullying her into recanting.

I agree on the last part. But unless there is a second article I don't see anywhere that said they destroyed the sheets before testing.

 

[Rhea]

I agree on the last part. But unless there is a second article I don't see anywhere that said they destroyed the sheets before testing.

There was a second article, I don't remember who posted it. I thought I did, but glancing back I don't see it on my posts off hand. But yes, a second article gave some additional detail about the comments from the foster parents and the police actions.

There was this one from TV & Credit Cards
http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/581/anatomy-of-doubt

The second one I was thinking of was a sidebar link that showed up while reading the original article.

 

[coloradoatheist]

I agree on the last part. But unless there is a second article I don't see anywhere that said they destroyed the sheets before testing.

There was a second article, I don't remember who posted it. I thought I did, but glancing back I don't see it on my posts off hand. But yes, a second article gave some additional detail about the comments from the foster parents and the police actions.

There was this one from TV & Credit Cards
http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/581/anatomy-of-doubt

The second one I was thinking of was a sidebar link that showed up while reading the original article.

Thank you. I agree, this was the biggest failing. They needed to test it anyways.

 

[laughing dog]

I agree on the last part. But unless there is a second article I don't see anywhere that said they destroyed the sheets before testing.

What does that have to do with anything? This is question about when they tested the sheets not IF they tested the sheets.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The longer this thread gets, the more unbelievable the response of LP and Derec etc... become. Its as if they are incapable of getting the clear lessons that
1) when a rape victim is less than certain or changes the details that does not necessarily mean the rape victim is lying, and
2) there are still good reasons why rape victims are afraid to come forward.

Nobody has said that #1 proved they were lying.

The problem is when she was challenged on #1 she responded by claiming the whole thing was a lie rather than admitting not getting the details right.

 

[laughing dog]

Nobody has said that #1 proved they were lying.

Actually, the police officers did just that. And there are plenty of posters who take any inconsistency in a rape victim's account as evidence she or he is lying.

The problem is when she was challenged on #1 she responded by claiming the whole thing was a lie rather than admitting not getting the details right.

No, one of the problems is when she was threatened with charges, she recanted. Another problem is that this woman had been physically and sexually abused as a child and was likely to be easily intimidated. And yet another problem is people who blame the victim for succumbing to unnecessary and counterproductive police pressure.

BTW, do you realize that this victim did not say she lied? Which means that using your working definition of "lie", you are "lying"?

 

[Arctish]

The longer this thread gets, the more unbelievable the response of LP and Derec etc... become. Its as if they are incapable of getting the clear lessons that
1) when a rape victim is less than certain or changes the details that does not necessarily mean the rape victim is lying, and
2) there are still good reasons why rape victims are afraid to come forward.

Nobody has said that #1 proved they were lying.

The problem is when she was challenged on #1 she responded by claiming the whole thing was a lie rather than admitting not getting the details right.

She never claimed the whole thing was a lie, as in her freely and voluntarily saying "I made it up". The police extorted a retraction from her. When she tried to appease them by saying that perhaps she dreamed it, they said that wasn't good enough. They wanted her to say she made it up, and they threatened and bullied her until she complied.

The police officers fucked up. They traumatized and victimized the traumatized victim of a terrible crime. Their dismissal of her report led to a rapist going undetected for longer than he might have and being free to violently rape more people. I shouldn't be surprised that your ideology prevents you from admitting the obvious, and yet somehow I am.

ETA: I wonder how you think this should have gone down. The cops threatened to have her arrested and prosecuted on a charge of filing a false report to the police. Suppose she refused to recant. Now what?

Should the police arrest her? Should they press charges? Do you think her steadfast refusal to recant will somehow convince them that a crime really did take place, and they will then get down to the business of investigating the reported crime? Should every person reporting a crime be subjected to the same treatment? Is this a good way for the police to sort out which reported crimes they will investigate and which ones they won't?

 

[Artemus]

I heard about this article on Wired.com on NPR yesterday that discusses how current police interrogation techniques are prone to get false confessions. It's the same technique used to get this girl to "confess" to making up the rape. Not sure how prevalent it is, but it sure sounds like there is a real problem.

 

[Rhea]

I heard about this article on Wired.com on NPR yesterday that discusses how current police interrogation techniques are prone to get false confessions. It's the same technique used to get this girl to "confess" to making up the rape. Not sure how prevalent it is, but it sure sounds like there is a real problem.

If it's happening a lot (and in all kinds of cases) it sure is a terrible use of law enforcement resources.

 

[ZiprHead]

Nobody has said that #1 proved they were lying.

The problem is when she was challenged on #1 she responded by claiming the whole thing was a lie rather than admitting not getting the details right.

Bullshit. I highly doubt she went directly from here, "Nobody has said that #1 proved they were lying." directly to here, "when she was challenged on #1 she responded by claiming the whole thing was a lie". She was badgered, coerced and threatened with jail time and homelessness over several hours to get her to say it was a lie. She was practically tortured.

 

[RavenSky]

I heard about this article on Wired.com on NPR yesterday that discusses how current police interrogation techniques are prone to get false confessions. It's the same technique used to get this girl to "confess" to making up the rape. Not sure how prevalent it is, but it sure sounds like there is a real problem.

Thank you for the article.

I'd have to go back and double-check, but I think The Marshall Project studied Marie's case, too

 

[Malintent]

Wow the psychology is very complicated... I find it hard to imagine there can be a significant number of people that have such a fragile sense of reality, while still being as otherwise functional as Marie, in the story. Marie actually recanted her report as having possibly been a dream, after being intimidated by cops that sensed something was off about her. Something was definitely off about her, but it wasn't that she was lying.

There are two morals to this story for me.

1) Women can be very fragile, and should be treated differently than males by police... and voters... and employers... If they recant, we can't trust that. so their original stories should be held with similar distrust. Women probably are never really raped.. It just happens in the movies.
2) The penalty for filing a false police report of a rape is only a misdemeanor!!! It needs to be a felony of the same degree that rape is. Women are putting innocent men in jail and ruining their lives. There should be a penalty for even trying to file a rape claim.. Women must then prove themselves as having provided a true statement to avoid mandatory jail time.

 

[Arctish]

Wow the psychology is very complicated... I find it hard to imagine there can be a significant number of people that have such a fragile sense of reality, while still being as otherwise functional as Marie, in the story. Marie actually recanted her report as having possibly been a dream, after being intimidated by cops that sensed something was off about her. Something was definitely off about her, but it wasn't that she was lying.

There are two morals to this story for me.

1) Women can be very fragile, and should be treated differently than males by police... and voters... and employers... If they recant, we can't trust that. so their original stories should be held with similar distrust. Women probably are never really raped.. It just happens in the movies.
2) The penalty for filing a false police report of a rape is only a misdemeanor!!! It needs to be a felony of the same degree that rape is. Women are putting innocent men in jail and ruining their lives. There should be a penalty for even trying to file a rape claim.. Women must then prove themselves as having provided a true statement to avoid mandatory jail time.

I think you should take the time to read the article at Wired.com. You'll find that your supposition that false confessions is a female-centric problem is entirely baseless, that the notion current police interrogation tactics are effective at uncovering the truth is unsupported by research into the topic, and that better methods of interviewing witnesses and suspects have been developed.

You won't find anything about punishments for filing false reports, but that's not what this discussion is about so ...

 

[Malintent]

Wow the psychology is very complicated... I find it hard to imagine there can be a significant number of people that have such a fragile sense of reality, while still being as otherwise functional as Marie, in the story. Marie actually recanted her report as having possibly been a dream, after being intimidated by cops that sensed something was off about her. Something was definitely off about her, but it wasn't that she was lying.

There are two morals to this story for me.

1) Women can be very fragile, and should be treated differently than males by police... and voters... and employers... If they recant, we can't trust that. so their original stories should be held with similar distrust. Women probably are never really raped.. It just happens in the movies.
2) The penalty for filing a false police report of a rape is only a misdemeanor!!! It needs to be a felony of the same degree that rape is. Women are putting innocent men in jail and ruining their lives. There should be a penalty for even trying to file a rape claim.. Women must then prove themselves as having provided a true statement to avoid mandatory jail time.

I think you should take the time to read the article at Wired.com. You'll find that your supposition that false confessions is a female-centric problem is entirely baseless, that the notion current police interrogation tactics are effective at uncovering the truth is unsupported by research into the topic, and that better methods of interviewing witnesses and suspects have been developed.

You won't find anything about punishments for filing false reports, but that's not what this discussion is about so ...

Not sure what this discussion is about, then... OP says read the article and discuss.. no input, commentary, or any guidance as to what the point should be. so, I posted one of many possible impressions that can be taken from reading the entire serial rapist stories. It could be a mini series. However, the OP was barely a caption.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Wow the psychology is very complicated... I find it hard to imagine there can be a significant number of people that have such a fragile sense of reality, while still being as otherwise functional as Marie, in the story. Marie actually recanted her report as having possibly been a dream, after being intimidated by cops that sensed something was off about her. Something was definitely off about her, but it wasn't that she was lying.

There are two morals to this story for me.

1) Women can be very fragile, and should be treated differently than males by police... and voters... and employers... If they recant, we can't trust that. so their original stories should be held with similar distrust. Women probably are never really raped.. It just happens in the movies.
2) The penalty for filing a false police report of a rape is only a misdemeanor!!! It needs to be a felony of the same degree that rape is. Women are putting innocent men in jail and ruining their lives. There should be a penalty for even trying to file a rape claim.. Women must then prove themselves as having provided a true statement to avoid mandatory jail time.

This Poe^Poe.

 

[Arctish]

I think you should take the time to read the article at Wired.com. You'll find that your supposition that false confessions is a female-centric problem is entirely baseless, that the notion current police interrogation tactics are effective at uncovering the truth is unsupported by research into the topic, and that better methods of interviewing witnesses and suspects have been developed.

You won't find anything about punishments for filing false reports, but that's not what this discussion is about so ...

Not sure what this discussion is about, then... OP says read the article and discuss.. no input, commentary, or any guidance as to what the point should be. so, I posted one of many possible impressions that can be taken from reading the entire serial rapist stories. It could be a mini series. However, the OP was barely a caption.

So like several posters before you, you didn't read the OP article but you're commenting on what you suppose it might say that could be used in support of an assertion you wish to make, and the rest of us can ignore your posts until it becomes apparent you have read it and understand the topic of this thread.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

2) The penalty for filing a false police report of a rape is only a misdemeanor!!! It needs to be a felony of the same degree that rape is. Women are putting innocent men in jail and ruining their lives. There should be a penalty for even trying to file a rape claim.. Women must then prove themselves as having provided a true statement to avoid mandatory jail time.

I'd make the penalty for a knowingly false police report automatically be treated as the crime thus falsely reported.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

2) The penalty for filing a false police report of a rape is only a misdemeanor!!! It needs to be a felony of the same degree that rape is. Women are putting innocent men in jail and ruining their lives. There should be a penalty for even trying to file a rape claim.. Women must then prove themselves as having provided a true statement to avoid mandatory jail time.

I'd make the penalty for a knowingly false police report automatically be treated as the crime thus falsely reported.

So when Derec is brought up on charges of knowingly falsely reporting that someone falsely reported a crime, what is the punishment. Right now the computer says Divide by 0 error.


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[Rhea]

I'd make the penalty for a knowingly false police report automatically be treated as the crime thus falsely reported.

So when Derec is brought up on charges of knowingly falsely reporting that someone falsely reported a crime, what is the punishment. Right now the computer says Divide by 0 error.

Pretty sure that's a death penalty case because it has a gravitational well that pulls in all false reports and therefore all crimes and he has to answer for the whole lot.