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Another Day In The USA

Fff here I am downtown Minneapolis Ooogling every not man ass that walks by and there HL was asking whether it's gay to like a man with a pussy or w/e.

Fucker, I know what I like, I like men, not dicks. If the men have dicks or whatever doesn't matter. It's the man I like not the dick.
 
Tom Sawyer said:
Loren Pechtel said:
Tom Sawyer said:
OK, so they own it but they can't use it. To relate that back to guns, it would mean that if you shoot someone who's breaking into your house with it, that would be felony murder because he died as a result of your illegal use of a firearm.
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Nope--the legality of your possession of a weapon has no bearing on the legality of what you did with the weapon. Legally use an illegal weapon and you'll only be charged with having the illegal weapon. Do a battlefield pickup of a weapon you're not allowed to possess and there won't be charges at all.
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But if you steal a car and kill a guy, that’s felony homicide, not vehicular homicide because the death occurred during the commission of a crime. Picking up a gun for immediate self defence isn’t s crime, but illegally using an unregistered weapon would be.
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If you kill the guy while stealing the car it's felony homicide. If you kill the guy while driving a stolen car it's simply auto theft + vehicular homicide.

And if that bad guy's weapon isn't legally registered (or perhaps couldn't even be legally registered) it won't bring charges to you.
 
Derec said:
Loren Pechtel said:
Nope--the legality of your possession of a weapon has no bearing on the legality of what you did with the weapon. Legally use an illegal weapon and you'll only be charged with having the illegal weapon.
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True. That's what happened to Bernie Goetz after all - he was acquitted of shooting the guys who were trying to rob him, but was convicted of possessing an unlicensed firearm (NYC has strict gun laws).
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That was my memory, also, but I wasn't sure so I didn't use it as an example.
 
Jason Harvestdancer said:
PyramidHead said:
It's "SPLC", Jason. The SPLC lists about 1,000 hate groups in the United States as of 2019. They are categorized by type:



Your reading of their data suggests that each of these groups has, on average, between one and two dozen members, depending on overlap. It also says that the only white supremacists we should count are those that belong to official groups recognized by the SPLC, which for analysis reasons makes divisions among groups that ordinary people don't. It also fails to provide citations. It also doesn't account for the fact that small numbers of people can have extreme negative effects on society, especially when they have lots of power and money. It checks all the boxes.
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What you established is that they count a lot of groups out there. They also count people which is what I'm using.

The three categories of people lead to less than 10,000 people each in groups of various sizes. Since there are likely people in two or three categories at once, and maybe even in more than one group at a time, we are looking at less than 10,000 people on whole. At worst it could be, if the "less than 10,000" was closer to 9,000 instead of 4,000, and if there is absolutely no double counting then close to 30,000 people total.

And remember, as a money-making venture masquerading as a non-profit, the SPLC has a vested interest in making the numbers appear as large as possible. If they can't find 10,000 white supremacists, even with loose standards and double counting, then it is very unlikely there are more than 10,000.
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Show your work, where is the source for these claims and this interpretation of them? Also, as much as you want to make it go away, laughing dog's entirely reasonable reminder that the VAST MAJORITY of people who hold racist, white nationalist, or otherwise bigoted views are NOT members of any official organization remains unchallenged. Most of the people committing these mass shootings wouldn't have been in that football stadium. A poll taken right after Charlottesville shows that roughly 1 in 10 Americans are fine with people holding Neo-Nazi views. That's like 20 million people. So, if we don't just count the card-carrying hate group members but also the people who see nothing wrong with their membership and are thereby inspired, the problem is much bigger than you disingenuously describe. And that's not even getting into the power differentials between the general population and the police, military, and government itself, where far-right views are all disproportionately common.
 
You want me to prove something about people who keep their opinions in their heads and don't share them? How do you even know they are there if they keep their opinions in their head? If you can give me some way to measure hidden opinions, I'll do the research you ask for.

It does look like you are stopping short of out-right stating that the SPLC under-counted. If you really do think they did, you might want to say that. I mean if A -> B and if B -> C, it is still true that A -> C whether you say it or not. But if I say it you can say I'm putting words in your mouth.
 
The total count of members of organizations is less than the population at large because not everyone joins an organization. Likewise, for each particular organization, it is a reasonable expectation that individuals who ascribe to the organization's principles/ideology/purpose will outnumber the members in the organization because those who choose to be members are a subset of such total group of persons.
 
Jason Harvestdancer said:
You want me to prove something about people who keep their opinions in their heads and don't share them? How do you even know they are there if they keep their opinions in their head? If you can give me some way to measure hidden opinions, I'll do the research you ask for.
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That is entirely the point - the SLPC could not possibly count people who are not members of those organizations or who do not actively participate in their activities.
 
There's also no way to prove they exist if they don't share their opinions. You are asking me to prove they aren't there. That's proving a negative.

Unless I prove a negative you will assume that there are millions of uncounted white supremacists out there. That's just an assumption. As I wrote earlier, I'm sure there are many things you can believe.
 
laughing dog said:
Jason Harvestdancer said:
You want me to prove something about people who keep their opinions in their heads and don't share them? How do you even know they are there if they keep their opinions in their head? If you can give me some way to measure hidden opinions, I'll do the research you ask for.
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That is entirely the point - the SLPC could not possibly count people who are not members of those organizations or who do not actively participate in their activities.
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Wondering which organization the El Paso shooter was a member of.
 
Jason Harvestdancer said:
There's also no way to prove they exist if they don't share their opinions. You are asking me to prove they aren't there. That's proving a negative.
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The point is that there is no reason to take the SPLC's estimate is accurate or an upper bound.
Jason Harvestdancer said:
Unless I prove a negative you will assume that there are millions of uncounted white supremacists out there. That's just an assumption.
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It is on your part.
 
laughing dog said:
Jason Harvestdancer said:
There's also no way to prove they exist if they don't share their opinions. You are asking me to prove they aren't there. That's proving a negative.
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The point is that there is no reason to take the SPLC's estimate is accurate or an upper bound.
Jason Harvestdancer said:
Unless I prove a negative you will assume that there are millions of uncounted white supremacists out there. That's just an assumption.
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It is on your part.
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It's not a binary thing. White people are all over the spectrum from being entirely indifferent to race in all things, to being completely freaked out and demanding an end to the existence of all The Others, whoever they are. A true count would entirely depend on where you draw the line.
 
White, cisgendered, straight, 'westen' male is on the defensive these days, unsurprisingly, because he detects threats to his standing, which is being assaulted and eroded on several fronts.
 
Jason Harvestdancer said:
Where do you count those who hate themselves for being white?
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No. Most people who seek the edification of all do not hate white people. We just decide that being not-white isn't a reason to withhold our love and community from others.

It's not that we "hate" white people. We just don't prefer them. It's not that we hate ourselves, we merely do not love ourselves more than others in a solipsistic self-suck.
 
ruby sparks said:
White, cisgendered, straight, 'westen' male is on the defensive these days, unsurprisingly, because he detects threats to his standing, which is being assaulted and eroded on several fronts.
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I suspect he fears that someday he will be treated the way he treated minorities.
 
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