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Another officer not indicted

ksen

ksen

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http://www.theatlantic.com/national...-garner-grand-jury-no-indictment-nypd/383392/

On Wednesday, a grand jury decided not to indict Daniel Pantaleo, the plainclothes NYPD officer who was making the arrest.

. . .

Garner has harrowing digital footprints. His attempted arrest and death was capture on a widely-disseminated video. His final words were “I can’t breathe.”

In the aftermath of the verdict, many will likely point to the fact that the coroner's report ruled Garner's death a homicide, and that chokeholds are expressly forbidden by the NYPD. As the New York Daily News pointed out, the autopsy also "determined the victim’s asthma, obesity and high blood pressure were also contributing factors in his death." Some will cite the police claims that Garner was resisting arrest. Others are already complaining that body cameras are apparently not the answer.
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In this case you have a coroner ruling it a homicide and the officer using a takedown method forbidden in his department's policy. And yet the prosecutor couldn't manage an indictment.

I'm starting to think that when law officers are involved we should use special prosecutors to indict instead of relying on prosecutors that work day in and day out with these officers.
 
They are correct that cameras won't solve the real problem.

The real problem is the nationwide conspiracy between law enforcement and prosecutors, that virtually guarantees immunity to both. The founding fathers envisioned a government with a separation of powers wherein different groups within the government would monitor and keep each other in line. This of course pre-supposes that the members of the different parties don't tacitly or explicitly cooperate to further their own interests.

What we see here now is the break down of constitutional government, where the ruling political class that makes up the prosecutors and law enforcement are literally collaborating to oppress the people. What can be done?
 
The thing that bothered me about the Garner case were the EMS. They made zero attempt to revive him.
 
That's the only thing? The kangaroo court letting him walk doesn't?
 
Sarpedon said:
That's the only thing? The kangaroo court letting him walk doesn't?
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I don't think its the same as Ferguson, though I guess the roots are similar ie project the strong don't fuck with me I'm the PO-leese attitude.

Frankly, I don't know where the lines run in a case like this. In Ferguson, an unarmed man who had surrendered was intentionally gunned down.

Let see if Panteleo is disciplined internally. It was disturbing to watch him strutting around like a bantam rooster afterwards.
 
Garner was a criminal. It is obvious from the video that he resisted arrest. He was much bigger than the cops who tried to subdue him.
And the reason he died were his underlying health problems, not the way he was subdued. It's not like he was choked to death, it's that he had a cardiac arrest while struggling with the police while having asthma and a heart condition.
 
Horatio Parker said:
Frankly, I don't know where the lines run in a case like this. In Ferguson, an unarmed man who had surrendered was intentionally gunned down.
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The difference is that the way Garner was brought down wasn't lethal force under normal conditions while force used against Brown was. However, it is very much disputed whether Brown was surrendering or charging and evidence suggests latter.
 
The line is perfectly clear: Choke holds are against the rules of the NYPD, precisely because it is dangerous. This guy was just one of several officers restraining Garner, who wasn't making any sort of meaningful resistance. The chokehold was illegal, unnecessary, the officer KNEW it was dangerous and could result in death, and WAS the cause of death. This one is absolutely, 100% clear. There is no way this could have happened except by collusion between the prosecutor, the police, and the grand jurors.

I still want to know what the hell we can do about this?
 
ksen said:
I'm starting to think that when law officers are involved we should use special prosecutors to indict instead of relying on prosecutors that work day in and day out with these officers.
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I agree
 
Derec said:
Garner was a criminal. It is obvious from the video that he resisted arrest. He was much bigger than the cops who tried to subdue him.
And the reason he died were his underlying health problems, not the way he was subdued. It's not like he was choked to death, it's that he had a cardiac arrest while struggling with the police while having asthma and a heart condition.
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The way he was subdued is illegal. Chokeholds are illegal.

And Garners offense was selling loose cigarettes, which many bodegas and smoke shops here do, illegally. "Criminal" is a bit strong. Besides, he had just broken up a street fight. We need people like that.
 
Derec said:
Garner was a criminal. It is obvious from the video that he resisted arrest. He was much bigger than the cops who tried to subdue him.
And the reason he died were his underlying health problems, not the way he was subdued. It's not like he was choked to death, it's that he had a cardiac arrest while struggling with the police while having asthma and a heart condition.
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Then you disagree with the coroner that Garner's death was a homicide?
 
Derec said:
Garner was a criminal. It is obvious from the video that he resisted arrest. He was much bigger than the cops who tried to subdue him.
And the reason he died were his underlying health problems, not the way he was subdued. It's not like he was choked to death, it's that he had a cardiac arrest while struggling with the police while having asthma and a heart condition.
Click to expand...

So, the police officer used a technique that has been explicitly banned specifically because it can cause death and you would claim that the police officer holds no culpability?
 
Ok, push for special prosecutors. sounds like a good step. How about the grand jury system itself? I frankly am not sure I understand it.
 
It would seem that since a grand jury is optional its use is primarily for political cover, i.e., if the prosecutor wanted to appear to be unbiased either for or against indictment. If he didn't want an indictment, as in the Wilson/Brown case, he can point to the grand jury to take the blame for not indicting and if he did want an indictment he can use the grand jury as a record of showing he did due diligence and got agreement from the unbiased jury.
 
Derec said:
Garner was a criminal. It is obvious from the video that he resisted arrest. He was much bigger than the cops who tried to subdue him.
And the reason he died were his underlying health problems, not the way he was subdued. It's not like he was choked to death, it's that he had a cardiac arrest while struggling with the police while having asthma and a heart condition.
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Unless you can show that under NY law that bootlegging cigarettes is a capital crime without any chance of appeal, your response has no merit to this situation.
 
laughing dog said:
Derec said:
Garner was a criminal. It is obvious from the video that he resisted arrest. He was much bigger than the cops who tried to subdue him.
And the reason he died were his underlying health problems, not the way he was subdued. It's not like he was choked to death, it's that he had a cardiac arrest while struggling with the police while having asthma and a heart condition.
Click to expand...
Unless you can show that under NY law that bootlegging cigarettes is a capital crime without any chance of appeal, your response has no merit to this situation.
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How about reconstituting grand juries as peers of citizens most likely to be arrested. Just noodlin'
 
laughing dog said:
Derec said:
Garner was a criminal. It is obvious from the video that he resisted arrest. He was much bigger than the cops who tried to subdue him.
And the reason he died were his underlying health problems, not the way he was subdued. It's not like he was choked to death, it's that he had a cardiac arrest while struggling with the police while having asthma and a heart condition.
Click to expand...
Unless you can show that under NY law that bootlegging cigarettes is a capital crime without any chance of appeal, your response has no merit to this situation.
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Got to go with this one. We keep hearing how Michael Brown, Trayvon Martin and the likes were CRIMINALS, but never how they were simply pathetic petty criminals*.
 
Fox News keeps its eye on the ball:

3:45 p.m.: Fox News's Gretchen Carlson is worried that demonstrations over the decision might mess up the aforementioned tree lighting ceremony. "There have been these protests in Times Square, right outside of our building here, for the last week or so, since the non-indictment came down in the Ferguson situation," she said. "So I certainly hope nothing's going to happen in New York City today, and we’ve got the tree lighting ceremony today.”
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