Are atheists "better" than Christians?

[Unknown Soldier]

The stereotypical Christian, at least according to many of the critics of Christianity, is narrow-minded, fanatical, unreasonable, dishonest, untrustworthy, ignorant and bigoted, and those are the Christian's positive qualities! I think there's some truth to this view, but are atheists any better? I used to think that yes, atheists are generally open-minded, logical, truthful, trustworthy, educated, and willing to accept people who are different from them. However, in recent years I'm not as sure as I used to be that atheism is a cure for religion's ills. Atheists can fall in love with ideas and defend those ideas with as much zeal as Christians defend their beliefs. Atheists can play fast and loose with the truth to uphold their pet philosophies. "Unbelievers" are often attacked with insults and name-calling.

Nevertheless, I think atheism is a step in the right direction because unlike Christians, atheists need not defend ideas. They are free to think what they want without pressure, or at least do so without fear that they will be punished.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Paranormalism is paranormalism whether it's about gospels or about crystals. Am I really smarter if I believe in astrology instead of miracles? Someone who is into crystal worship is just as guilty of nincompoopery as someone who is into demigod worship. It's all the same unscientific dopey - maybe "feel good" - behavior.

As far as being attacked for one's beliefs that's just defending tribalism, aka defending a perceived attack on my preferred group identity. We all do that to a degree even though many of us recognize how primitive it is and would rather be able to spend our lives and precious time more productively.

Going to "bible study" is no different than having your biofield adjusted or seeing a tarot card reader, no different that is unless one of those activities is not a reflection of my group identity. If it isn't, now I have a bogeyman and attacking the bogeyman becomes part of my group identity behavior.

Better we all think about what we're trying to do with our lives and how similar all our needs truly are.

 

[steve_bank]

Christians areno better or worse than others. The conservative branches think they have a lock on ablute morality.

An absolute truth everyone must believe as opposed to a personal belief that one follows.

On the flip side ANTIFA and Black Bloc.

 

[Elixir]

Are atheists "better" than Christians?​

Depends 100% on how you cook them.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Paranormalism is paranormalism whether it's about gospels or about crystals. Am I really smarter if I believe in astrology instead of miracles? Someone who is into crystal worship is just as guilty of nincompoopery as someone who is into demigod worship. It's all the same unscientific dopey - maybe "feel good" - behavior.

As far as being attacked for one's beliefs that's just defending tribalism, aka defending a perceived attack on my preferred group identity. We all do that to a degree even though many of us recognize how primitive it is and would rather be able to spend our lives and precious time more productively.

Going to "bible study" is no different than having your biofield adjusted or seeing a tarot card reader, no different that is unless one of those activities is not a reflection of my group identity. If it isn't, now I have a bogeyman and attacking the bogeyman becomes part of my group identity behavior.

Better we all think about what we're trying to do with our lives and how similar all our needs truly are.

You appear to be comparing Christians to non-Christians who "practice the paranormal." Are you saying that atheists replace conventional religious beliefs with paranormal beliefs of their own? If so, then in some cases you might be right. I remember getting into some trouble with some people, supposedly scientists and mathematicians (many of them atheists), when I opined that math is invented rather than discovered. They fought me tooth and nail evidently finding the idea that math is not discovered to be repugnant. I made what I thought were sound arguments for my position while they responded with insults and ultimately censorship. It seemed to me that they acted much like Christians when they are told there is no heaven. The "heaven" for my interlocutors I suppose was some place where math exists waiting to be discovered.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Christians areno better or worse than others. The conservative branches think they have a lock on ablute morality.

An absolute truth everyone must believe as opposed to a personal belief that one follows.

There is some scientific evidence that while conservative Christians have negative opinions of social progress, liberal Christians tend to score much better in that regard and are on a par with atheists. See What You Don't Know About Religion (but Should) by Ryan T. Cragun for more information.

 

[zorq]

The stereotypical Christian, at least according to many of the critics of Christianity, is narrow-minded, fanatical, unreasonable, dishonest, untrustworthy, ignorant and bigoted, and those are the Christian's positive qualities! I think there's some truth to this view, but are atheists any better? I used to think that yes, atheists are generally open-minded, logical, truthful, trustworthy, educated, and willing to accept people who are different from them. However, in recent years I'm not as sure as I used to be that atheism is a cure for religion's ills. Atheists can fall in love with ideas and defend those ideas with as much zeal as Christians defend their beliefs. Atheists can play fast and loose with the truth to uphold their pet philosophies. "Unbelievers" are often attacked with insults and name-calling.

Nevertheless, I think atheism is a step in the right direction because unlike Christians, atheists need not defend ideas. They are free to think what they want without pressure, or at least do so without fear that they will be punished.

Some Christians are horrible and possess many of the negative attributes that you listed. Some Christians not that bad. Some Atheists are horrible and possess many of the same negative attributes you listed. Some Atheists are not that bad too.

I'm imagining a competition where the stakes of winning are great or dire. If I were forced to choose a stranger to help me in this competition and the only thing I was told about them was their religious affiliation, which one would I prefer? I thought about it, and I would trust a random Atheist more than a random Christian. It did take me a surprisingly long time to decide.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Some Christians are horrible and possess many of the negative attributes that you listed. Some Christians not that bad. Some Atheists are horrible and possess many of the same negative attributes you listed. Some Atheists are not that bad too.

Then we have no disagreement on that issue.

I'm imagining a competition where the stakes of winning are great or dire. If I were forced to choose a stranger to help me in this competition and the only thing I was told about them was their religious affiliation, which one would I prefer? I thought about it, and I would trust a random Atheist more than a random Christian. It did take me a surprisingly long time to decide.

I would need to flip a coin to decide that one because religious affiliation is simply not enough information for me to choose a helper.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

You appear to be comparing Christians to non-Christians who "practice the paranormal." Are you saying that atheists replace conventional religious beliefs with paranormal beliefs of their own? If so, then in some cases you might be right. I remember getting into some trouble with some people, supposedly scientists and mathematicians (many of them atheists), when I opined that math is invented rather than discovered. They fought me tooth and nail evidently finding the idea that math is not discovered to be repugnant. I made what I thought were sound arguments for my position while they responded with insults and ultimately censorship. It seemed to me that they acted much like Christians when they are told there is no heaven. The "heaven" for my interlocutors I suppose was some place where math exists waiting to be discovered.

There's conventional paranormalism and unconventional paranormalism, maybe that's the best way to say it. Woo is woo whether it's popular and normalized or whether it isn't. Going into a magic building on a Sunday to sing songs to spirits is considered pretty rational in some circles. If you see it as group meditation then maybe it is.

In the end it's the behavior that matters. The insidious element in all this is how far a person will go to preserve their group identity, whether they accord the same acceptance, respect and rights to non group members or whether they allow harm to occur to others because they are not perceived members of their preferred tribe.

 

[zorq]

I'm imagining a competition where the stakes of winning are great or dire. If I were forced to choose a stranger to help me in this competition and the only thing I was told about them was their religious affiliation, which one would I prefer? I thought about it, and I would trust a random Atheist more than a random Christian. It did take me a surprisingly long time to decide.

I would need to flip a coin to decide that one because religious affiliation is simply not enough information for me to choose a helper.

Eh, I was reminded of all the Christians who think that prayer is physically helpful, and then I think of all the Christians who are happy to actually blame anything unusual or inconvenient on "Satan." These people are not trustworthy helpers, and I can't think of equivalently popular and deleterious factions in the Atheist camp. Maybe there is a contingent of Nihilists among the Atheists who would be to apathetic to help, but I doubt they are nearly as popular or populous as Christians who believe in the power of prayer.

Are Atheists "better?" Well, using this rudimentary thought experiment, I would say, on average, maybe.

 

[Marvin Edwards]

Having been raised by Christians in a pragmatic and service-related church, the Salvation Army, I see many advantages. For one thing, children go to Sunday school, where they are taught valuable moral lessons of courage and hope, caring and loving, generosity, faith, and so on. My mother used to do a flannel board presentation of "Pilgrim's Progress" for the kids, where values and behaviors, both good and bad, were characters in the plot.

We were taught that every sinner is loved by God and is redeemable no matter how bad the crime. This was reinforced by parables, like "The Prodigal Son" and "The Lost Sheep".

We were taught to speak truth to power through the story of Daniel, and by the chorus we sang:
"Dare to be a Daniel, Dare to Stand Alone, Dare to have a Purpose Firm, and Dare to Make it Known".

We were taught the words of Jesus, including "feed the poor", "heal the sick", and "visit the prisoner".

One thing that bothers me about atheists is their tendency to hold mythical views and prejudices about Christians. And I wonder how many have actually sat through a church service to see for themselves what is actually being taught from week to week. Perhaps a good Methodist church would be helpful.

Today I occasionally refer to myself as a "God fearing, Christian Atheist". Atheist because it is highly doubtful that any supernatural beings exist. God fearing because, well, hell, even I could be wrong. And Christian because those are the values that I grew up with.

I consider Jesus to be a man who taught moral wisdom, compassion, and tolerance. A man who, like Martin Luther, challenged the existing church and its laws. For which he was criticized by that church and eventually martyred.

Oh, and I also call myself a Humanist, because I believe that man created God in his own image, and I believe in death after life.

 

[steve_bank]

Christians areno better or worse than others. The conservative branches think they have a lock on ablute morality.

An absolute truth everyone must believe as opposed to a personal belief that one follows.

There is some scientific evidence that while conservative Christians have negative opinions of social progress, liberal Christians tend to score much better in that regard and are on a par with atheists. See What You Don't Know About Religion (but Should) by Ryan T. Cragun for more information.

I do not put any stock in those kinds of 'scientific studies'. There are studies to make any point you want.

If the meaning of atheist is simply rejection of deities than the OP has little meaning.

As has been covered many times in the past atheist is not an affirmation of any belief or philosophy or morality.

Obama is Christian and initially opposed gay marriage. I think he bowed to pollical reality on the left. His mentor was a conservative black evangelical known for conservative views. When video surfaced of his preaching Obama had to distance himself.

You are saying all aspects of the progressive left are good with no negatives? That would be biased and unscientific.

There are Christian liberals and conservatives. That is politics which both sides can justify biblically.

 

[southernhybrid]

Having been raised by Christians in a pragmatic and service-related church, the Salvation Army, I see many advantages. For one thing, children go to Sunday school, where they are taught valuable moral lessons of courage and hope, caring and loving, generosity, faith, and so on. My mother used to do a flannel board presentation of "Pilgrim's Progress" for the kids, where values and behaviors, both good and bad, were characters in the plot.

We were taught that every sinner is loved by God and is redeemable no matter how bad the crime. This was reinforced by parables, like "The Prodigal Son" and "The Lost Sheep".

We were taught to speak truth to power through the story of Daniel, and by the chorus we sang:
"Dare to be a Daniel, Dare to Stand Alone, Dare to have a Purpose Firm, and Dare to Make it Known".

We were taught the words of Jesus, including "feed the poor", "heal the sick", and "visit the prisoner".

One thing that bothers me about atheists is their tendency to hold mythical views and prejudices about Christians. And I wonder how many have actually sat through a church service to see for themselves what is actually being taught from week to week. Perhaps a good Methodist church would be helpful.

Today I occasionally refer to myself as a "God fearing, Christian Atheist". Atheist because it is highly doubtful that any supernatural beings exist. God fearing because, well, hell, even I could be wrong. And Christian because those are the values that I grew up with.

I consider Jesus to be a man who taught moral wisdom, compassion, and tolerance. A man who, like Martin Luther, challenged the existing church and its laws. For which he was criticized by that church and eventually martyred.

Oh, and I also call myself a Humanist, because I believe that man created God in his own image, and I believe in death after life.

Most of the atheists who I know, have known and see here don't dislike Christians, although they may enjoy debating the Christian mythology. I was raised by conservative Christian converts, but I never learned many good moral lessons from the church I was forced to attend. I was taught that "all have sinned and come short of the glory of God" and other such nonsense. My lessons were mainly to put fear in me, to convince me that my little Catholic friends were all hell bound and that it was my duty to witness to the "unsaved" and try to convert them. My church was primarily made up of people who were middle class, or upper middle class. The huge amount of money that was given to the church was almost all spent on foreign missionaries. We rarely were taught about the better parts of the gospels. We weren't taught to give to charity. My mother was a good person, but my father was often cruel, using the "spare the rod and spoil the child" excuse for beating us when we were very young. He was mentally ill so he might have been just as mean without his Christian beliefs. The people in my childhood church were often self righteous and judgmental, so I had a very different experience from you.

Still, I have several nice Christian friends, including one who is very poor and very religious. I tend to feel that she needs her religion for the social support and the hope that it gives her. She is my one friend who I will never reveal my atheism to, as I don't think she would understand, and I wouldn't want to hurt her. She probably has never met anyone who is openly atheist. She is rather naive. My other Christian friends know I"m an atheist and we don't allow our different beliefs to come between us. We have a lot in common. We share the same values, so our beliefs are a minor part of who we are.

I've worked with both nice, caring Christians as well as mean, nasty judgmental Christians. I don't think that what one believes makes anyone better than anyone else. I felt a great deal of relief and happiness when I finally realized that there are no gods and it's up to us to make what we can of life, as much as we are able. I've been an atheist for almost 50 years.

But, at the same time, I believe that we are all products of both our genetic and environmental influences. That is how I was able to forgive my father for his bad behavior and bond with him, unlike my two sisters. He was treated badly by a mentally ill mother. He had a terrible childhood and then was a victim of 4 years of brutal combat during WWII. He was a product of all of those influences. That is how I am able to refrain from judging people, as I don't believe we can help who we are. We can sometimes be a positive or negative influence on each other, but we were all born with a predisposition to be a certain way, and it's difficult to change without substantial influences.

So, my answer to the OP is that atheists aren't any better than Christians. We are individuals influenced by a wide variety of things. What we believe regarding the supernatural is usually a small part of who we are. Extremism is the problem and that comes in many flavors, both religious and secular.

 

[Marvin Edwards]

Most of the atheists who I know, have known and see here don't dislike Christians, although they may enjoy debating the Christian mythology. I was raised by conservative Christian converts, but I never learned many good moral lessons from the church I was forced to attend. I was taught that "all have sinned and come short of the glory of God" and other such nonsense. My lessons were mainly to put fear in me, to convince me that my little Catholic friends were all hell bound and that it was my duty to witness to the "unsaved" and try to convert them. My church was primarily made up of people who were middle class, or upper middle class. The huge amount of money that was given to the church was almost all spent on foreign missionaries. We rarely were taught about the better parts of the gospels. We weren't taught to give to charity. My mother was a good person, but my father was often cruel, using the "spare the rod and spoil the child" excuse for beating us when we were very young. He was mentally ill so he might have been just as mean without his Christian beliefs. The people in my childhood church were often self righteous and judgmental, so I had a very different experience from you.

Still, I have several nice Christian friends, including one who is very poor and very religious. I tend to feel that she needs her religion for the social support and the hope that it gives her. She is my one friend who I will never reveal my atheism to, as I don't think she would understand, and I wouldn't want to hurt her. She probably has never met anyone who is openly atheist. She is rather naive. My other Christian friends know I"m an atheist and we don't allow our different beliefs to come between us. We have a lot in common. We share the same values, so our beliefs are a minor part of who we are.

I've worked with both nice, caring Christians as well as mean, nasty judgmental Christians. I don't think that what one believes makes anyone better than anyone else. I felt a great deal of relief and happiness when I finally realized that there are no gods and it's up to us to make what we can of life, as much as we are able. I've been an atheist for almost 50 years.

But, at the same time, I believe that we are all products of both our genetic and environmental influences. That is how I was able to forgive my father for his bad behavior and bond with him, unlike my two sisters. He was treated badly by a mentally ill mother. He had a terrible childhood and then was a victim of 4 years of brutal combat during WWII. He was a product of all of those influences. That is how I am able to refrain from judging people, as I don't believe we can help who we are. We can sometimes be a positive or negative influence on each other, but we were all born with a predisposition to be a certain way, and it's difficult to change without substantial influences.

So, my answer to the OP is that atheists aren't any better than Christians. We are individuals influenced by a wide variety of things. What we believe regarding the supernatural is usually a small part of who we are. Extremism is the problem and that comes in many flavors, both religious and secular.

My mother was a serious hiker and in the Sierra Club. She met a man on one of the trails that she enjoyed talking to. But she was taken aback when he told her he as an atheist. She wasn't expecting an atheist to be such a good person. The two of them kept in touch over the years by mail.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

My mother was a serious hiker and in the Sierra Club. She met a man on one of the trails that she enjoyed talking to. But she was taken aback when he told her he as an atheist. She wasn't expecting an atheist to be such a good person. The two of them kept in touch over the years by mail.

That's happened to me too many times to remember. Took a while for the other person to get over the news this one time, but we're good friends today. For some people atheism is the worst imaginable condition that brings to mind both pity and hatred. They just can't handle it. Such is the draw of woo.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Atheists are much better than Christians because they have only done great things. And the ones that didn't weren't "true Atheists".

 

[Marvin Edwards]

My mother was a serious hiker and in the Sierra Club. She met a man on one of the trails that she enjoyed talking to. But she was taken aback when he told her he as an atheist. She wasn't expecting an atheist to be such a good person. The two of them kept in touch over the years by mail.

That's happened to me too many times to remember. Took a while for the other person to get over the news this one time, but we're good friends today. For some people atheism is the worst imaginable condition that brings to mind both pity and hatred. They just can't handle it. Such is the draw of woo.

Right, we do get set in our beliefs and find different beliefs disturbing at first, but then we get used to it. In Educational Psychology there was a section on changing someone else's beliefs. You could get more movement by taking a position strongly opposite theirs, but if you took a position that was too extreme, you'd lose credibility altogether.

It happened to me during the debate over gay marriage. I was fine with the notion of "domestic partners", and equal treatment of gay couples, but actually redefining marriage broke my credulity and I rebelled against that. But, now that its done, its not a problem for me. During a temporary split with my UU church I was in some very interesting discussions online. Broke down crying once. But also addressed transgender for the first time in those discussions. Since then I've supported Danica Roem's successful campaign for the Virginia House of Delegates. Things change. So do people.

 

[southernhybrid]

My mother was a serious hiker and in the Sierra Club. She met a man on one of the trails that she enjoyed talking to. But she was taken aback when he told her he as an atheist. She wasn't expecting an atheist to be such a good person. The two of them kept in touch over the years by mail.

That's happened to me too many times to remember. Took a while for the other person to get over the news this one time, but we're good friends today. For some people atheism is the worst imaginable condition that brings to mind both pity and hatred. They just can't handle it. Such is the draw of woo.

Yeah. I guess it depends on how successful the indoctrination has been. My mother became close friends with a Catholic neighbor when she was in her middle 80s. Considering how much her religious leaders demonized Catholics, that was quite a stretch for my mom.

I told her I no longer believed when I was 19, and had become fairly agnostic, considering Christianity to be one of many myths, but still not sure if there was a god. She ran from the room screaming. Eventually she accepted that I was not coming back to Jesus. We remained close friends , and despite her severe dementia, she still knows who I am.

She even told my husband that there was no way that I was going to hell several years ago. I'd like to believe that I helped open her mind a little. I know I'm not going to hell, but I wanted my mother to be free from that silly superstition and I think she was finally free. Unfortunately one of her nutty Christian friends asked her if she had told her Catholic friend about the lord, right after the woman died. I happened to be visiting and I wanted to scream at the friend, but maintained my cool. I know she couldn't help being who she was, but how thoughtless is it to ask a believer in hell, who just lost a close friend, if she had tried to "save" her from hell! A little too late now, don't ya think. Considering all the crazy conspiracy theories that people believe these days, I guess we shouldn't be surprised at all the woo out there.

 

[Politesse]

Atheists are much better than Christians because they have only done great things. And the ones that didn't weren't "true Atheists".

There is only one way to truly distinguish a "true atheist" from a poser: a quick look neath the kilt.

 

[Jarhyn]

As I've reached middle age and seen enough of the real world I have come to the realization that in many cases, "paranormal" beliefs, and paranormal descriptions of phenomena in general, are just rational ones whose content either was corrupted through time or failure of understanding by a party in the chain.

There is great value in attempting to maximize placebo effects through ritual, and there is some great value in learning the mechanisms of ritual and building a framework around which it can be leveraged. There is value in mindfulness and meditation, too, in discerning and disassembling social interactions and the emotional tangle they sometimes are overlaid with.

I imagine that this was all developed largely in absence of scientific investigation or academic rigor because those things didn't exist when people first had need of and success in finding such.

More, the issue is in trusting without verifying, and in believing without curiousity and doubt, both of which are scolded among the Christian faiths of the world.

Ot is not that I disrespect "Christians". I hold in low regard, rather, "those who have something which they do not doubt."