Are Atheists Brainwashed by Religion as well?

[Ramaraksha]

Atheists might have dumped religion but most of them have grown up in a religious environment and are the residuals still there?

I see some guy posting about Abraham's "willingness to sacrifice his son" etc and I think, "Am i the only guy to see a person ready to murder his own children here?" - what i see is the brainwashing done by religions. The mass killings of the past and even today attest to this fact

But back to Atheists - if we make some rules:

1. Atheists do not believe in God or the Heavens or Heaven nor Hell
2. So, where are all these ideas coming from? Naturally, from down here, from real life

So, if said ideas are coming from down here, what would they be like? For religions born when Kings/Strongmen/Dictators ruled with an iron fist - can we imagine that those who lived under such conditions would create Heavens that reflected their way of life? A King-like God sits on his throne in the Heavens, rewarding loyalty and obedience(believers get Heaven) and torturing/abusing the rest (unbelievers get hell). Collective condemnation and reward based on religious affiliation - we are talking Hitler here.

Very simple and primitive ideas - well, that is what life was like for our ancestors - a good just and powerful king meant a modicum of a good life. When a king died or was deposed it paid to back the new king or the most likely. Back the wrong guy and the new king would either have you killed or kick you out of his kingdom (hence heaven for believers only, unbelievers not admitted into heaven)

To me, that the Christian/Islamic (I will leave Judaism out of this) God is a King sticks out like a sore thumb. The Terminology - Kingdom, Prince, Commandments, submit, beg, mercy, judge, wrath, punish, forgive, Fear - ALL Slave/Servant/Subject words - words that made sense back in the day

Yet what bothers me is the lack of videos or articles on editorials from Atheists attesting to the above, discussing the above. It makes me think that it is not just theists that have been brainwashed by religion but Atheists as well

 

[braces_for_impact]

Maybe you haven't looked into the right places. In my experience, it's a pretty common theme for atheists to discuss what they believe that may be left over from a life of believing in their religion. Common things discussed are morality, politics (especially right wing politics) outright misinformation about science, a fear of hell or other afterlife, and other subjects. These are pretty common on podcasts and message boards alike.

Some Christians even call this the "judeo-christian ethic" or whatever, and try to make the claim that atheists are somehow "stealing" this from them in their attempt to be ethical or moral.

 

[Ramaraksha]

Maybe you haven't looked into the right places. In my experience, it's a pretty common theme for atheists to discuss what they believe that may be left over from a life of believing in their religion. Common things discussed are morality, politics (especially right wing politics) outright misinformation about science, a fear of hell or other afterlife, and other subjects. These are pretty common on podcasts and message boards alike.

Some Christians even call this the "judeo-christian ethic" or whatever, and try to make the claim that atheists are somehow "stealing" this from them in their attempt to be ethical or moral.

Have you come across what i have posted - that God is nothing but a King dividing people into loyal & disloyal and acting accordingly? That theists are no better than slaves/servants/subjects? I would love to see some examples - like a youtube video or an article?

 

[Keith&Co.]

Maybe you haven't looked into the right places.

Ram does spend a lot of time claiming that 'no one talks about' things I commonly see discussed online. Maybe it feeds a self-image as a rebel, to think he's unique in these outlooks?

 

[Ramaraksha]

Maybe you haven't looked into the right places.

Ram does spend a lot of time claiming that 'no one talks about' things I commonly see discussed online. Maybe it feeds a self-image as a rebel, to think he's unique in these outlooks?

Please, one more time, the same question i posed above - some examples would be great. A link to youtube video or videos. Links to articles or opinions

 

[repoman]

I was thinking about this tangentially today, in relation to dating. It would be better to date a person raised without a religion - but that person would probably want to date another not raised with a religion as well.
A proactive atheist deconvert from religion could have some baggage - maybe even more than an apathetic half-hearted follower of his parent's religion.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

I don’t think I’m brainwashed by religion. I’ll ask my priest later today what my opinion on the subject is to make sure, though.

 

[Jobar]

No question that the great majority of English-speaking atheists are influenced by one or more of the assorted flavors of Christianity. So is all of Western civilization, for that matter.

But 'brainwashed' is too strong a term.

 

[Ramaraksha]

No question that the great majority of English-speaking atheists are influenced by one or more of the assorted flavors of Christianity. So is all of Western civilization, for that matter.
But 'brainwashed' is too strong a term.

I think you are right - i may have gone a bit too far but it comes from religious people - Abraham was ready to kill his son and theists almost always make it sound like he did something great! or make cheap excuses of "but God stopped it" - as if that makes the attempt ok

We have forgotten the mass killings that used to take place in the name of furthering the religion - only a brainwashed person would do that

The silence from Atheists bothers me - that this God is but a King/Strongman/Dictator is quite obvious - out of place in a democratic 21st century yet few point this out

 

[abaddon]

I think you are right - i may have gone a bit too far but it comes from religious people - Abraham was ready to kill his son and theists almost always make it sound like he did something great! or make cheap excuses of "but God stopped it" - as if that makes the attempt ok

Right. They're subservient to an immoral though imaginary God, which reflects really badly on them. As atheists point out time and time and time again.

We have forgotten the mass killings that used to take place in the name of furthering the religion - only a brainwashed person would do that

"We" have not forgotten that at all.

And even if anyone had forgotten, what would be the connect to "brainwashing"? Religion is brainwashing, so if any atheists were deferential to religion then that's brainwashing too?

The silence from Atheists bothers me - that this God is but a King/Strongman/Dictator is quite obvious - out of place in a democratic 21st century yet few point this out

You're a broken record. It's the same three silly points over and over again: 1) atheists don't criticize religion the way you want (when actually they do); 2) Christianity has a master-slave hierarchy and asks for submission (a common criticism since at least Nietzsche's time); 3) Hindu reincarnation is a superior idea (actually it's just another religious superstition, so how is that not brainwashing?).

 

[PyramidHead]

The biggest influence of religion that persist even in atheists is the high value placed on life, especially human life. There is really no reason to think that life has any inherent value, and lots of reasons to think it's actually a pretty raw deal. The default optimism about human progress, existence in general, and the universe itself (the Sagan-esque awe and wonder at natural science, etc.) are just holdovers from a bygone era of power-worship, and secularism does itself no favors by entertaining these illusions.

 

[Elixir]

I must be uniquely unqualified to comment on this, since I had no religious upbringing to instill the requisite fear and loathing.
Religions claim to speak for gods that, were they real, would have no need of religions or their talking head leaders scammers to speak for them.

 

[Angry Floof]

I think there is a thread of truth to the idea as atheists are also products of their cultures just like everyone else, and Western culture rides on a substrate steeped in religious notions and assumptions. For example, our brains' tendency to like to keep things in simple, black and white terms is reinforced by many religions. It takes a bit of determination and honesty in self reflection to tease out these kinds of subconscious, habitual patterns of thought. Just because someone is an atheist or even a scientist doesn't mean they do that. Even if the specific stories and explanations offered by religion won't be found in an atheist's world view, those underlying cognitive pitfalls don't necessarily go anywhere.

 

[southernhybrid]

I was raised to believe in a literal Bible centric version of Christianity, but by the time I was 18, I left that version of religion and became an extremely liberal theist until I was about 28. I've been a strong atheist for the past 40 years. Why is it my job to be an evangelical atheist? I hated the evangelical religion that I was taught as a child. I hated being told to spread the gospel. I despised being told what to believe. I strongly believe that individuals should investigate truth for themselves. I never told my own son what to believe. He came to his own conclusions without my interference. ( he's an atheist )

I live in the heart of the Bible Belt as a fairly open atheist. I've never tried to hide my atheism, but unless a theist starts the argument, I see no point in trying to convince anyone that they are wrong and I am right. In fact, I find that type of behavior a bit obnoxious. It usually results in offending the other person and in my experience, it never convinces anyone.

I recently worked with a woman who called herself a Bible thumping Baptist. We had quite a few friendly religious arguments. She never budged an inch in her beliefs. She once abused drugs in her youth, but apparently Jesus replaced her addiction. The thing is that most of the religious people in my community are good people. They support local food banks. One local church has a free clinic for low income locals. As far as I know, most of these churches never try to convert or preach to those that receive the charity. I don't stereotype Christians as some are wonderful people and others are pretty obnoxious. I find this to be true of atheists as well. We're all human. My Bible thumping Baptist friend actually told me that she couldn't be good with god. I can be good without god, but apparently she needs her beliefs to keep her moral and happy. Who am I to judge the character of others based on their religious ideology, no matter how absurd they may seem to me?

But no. I am not brainwashed by religion. I just accept that the area that I live in, is heavily influenced by Christian culture. I can't change that. All I can do is be a good example of a person who lives a happy, moral life without religion. Sometimes that impresses people and sometimes it confuses them. That's not my problem.

 

[J842P]

Maybe you haven't looked into the right places. In my experience, it's a pretty common theme for atheists to discuss what they believe that may be left over from a life of believing in their religion. Common things discussed are morality, politics (especially right wing politics) outright misinformation about science, a fear of hell or other afterlife, and other subjects. These are pretty common on podcasts and message boards alike.

Some Christians even call this the "judeo-christian ethic" or whatever, and try to make the claim that atheists are somehow "stealing" this from them in their attempt to be ethical or moral.

Have you come across what i have posted - that God is nothing but a King dividing people into loyal & disloyal and acting accordingly? That theists are no better than slaves/servants/subjects? I would love to see some examples - like a youtube video or an article?

Here ya' go:

[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPD1YGghtDk[/YOUTUBE]

As for Abraham and Isaac:

[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVoloVvsupM[/YOUTUBE]

 

[LordKiran]

Maybe you haven't looked into the right places. In my experience, it's a pretty common theme for atheists to discuss what they believe that may be left over from a life of believing in their religion. Common things discussed are morality, politics (especially right wing politics) outright misinformation about science, a fear of hell or other afterlife, and other subjects. These are pretty common on podcasts and message boards alike.

Some Christians even call this the "judeo-christian ethic" or whatever, and try to make the claim that atheists are somehow "stealing" this from them in their attempt to be ethical or moral.

Have you come across what i have posted - that God is nothing but a King dividing people into loyal & disloyal and acting accordingly? That theists are no better than slaves/servants/subjects? I would love to see some examples - like a youtube video or an article?

But of course we're slaves to god, s'kinda the entire point of being assigned a purpose by a higher power as one might assign purpose to a tool. Purpose and meaning are the trappings of enslavement and the man who is without purpose knows true freedom. The entire concept of 'Freedom' is that you're not beholden to someone else. If you're beholden to god's command then you are his SERVANT and are decidedly NOT free.


This is all entirely moot of course because there is no god.

 

[braces_for_impact]

Yes Hitchens made some good examples. The opening of The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins was similar.

The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.

Seriously though, if you can't find atheists complaining about the God of the bible being a malevolent dictator, you're just not really trying.

Now, if the whole idea of this thread is yet another comparison to show the superiority of Hinduism or reincarnation, dude, get a new hobby, and then pick up a book called The Outsider Test for Faith by John Loftus, because friend, you have a tremendous blind spot in your reasoning.

 

[Hermit]

No, Ramaraksha, atheists do not get brainwashed. Never. Only theists get brainwashed. Atheists are sent to re-education camps.

Seriously, now: What Angry Floof said. Read it again. Slowly and attentively. Your opening post looks like the product of profound confusion to me, but that need not be terminal. Angry Floof's post is as good a start as any to help reduce it. It's very brief, and therefore leaves detail out, but you can build on it.

 

[LordKiran]

Yes Hitchens made some good examples. The opening of The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins was similar.

The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.

Seriously though, if you can't find atheists complaining about the God of the bible being a malevolent dictator, you're just not really trying.

Now, if the whole idea of this thread is yet another comparison to show the superiority of Hinduism or reincarnation, dude, get a new hobby, and then pick up a book called The Outsider Test for Faith by John Loftus, because friend, you have a tremendous blind spot in your reasoning.

You know, with the perspective of our current political climate taken into account that's probably not the best way to go about changing people's minds.