Are Microplastics causing Idiocracy?

[thebeave]

It would be interesting to see a comparison between the benefits that plastic has brought us, versus the detrimental effects, specifically the microplastics and other plastic waste in the environment. For example, how many lives have been saved by advances in the plastic packaging of food and medicines that prevent contamination and spoilage in ways that can't be easily accomplished with other materials? I suspect the benefits far outweigh the drawbacks. Maybe microplastics is one of the prices we pay for living a long life in a modern society. Not that we shouldn't try to keep plastic waste to a minimum. Bottled water being one example, one of my pet peeves. Don't even get me started on that!

The use of fossil fuels may be the cause of our extinction (the moderate temperatures in Santa Monica notwithstanding) but surely the use has saved innumerable people’s lives.

I’m not sure how useful this kind of argument is.

Extinction? I don't know about that [citation needed]. You guys should probably hang it up on the whole Santa Monica temperature thing. He's obviously just trolling y'all now and having a good laugh about how he lives rent free in your heads. Same with Daily Mail.

 

[Elixir]

It would be interesting to see a comparison between the benefits that plastic has brought us, versus the detrimental effects, specifically the microplastics and other plastic waste in the environment. For example, how many lives have been saved by advances in the plastic packaging of food and medicines that prevent contamination and spoilage in ways that can't be easily accomplished with other materials? I suspect the benefits far outweigh the drawbacks. Maybe microplastics is one of the prices we pay for living a long life in a modern society. Not that we shouldn't try to keep plastic waste to a minimum. Bottled water being one example, one of my pet peeves. Don't even get me started on that!

The use of fossil fuels may be the cause of our extinction (the moderate temperatures in Santa Monica notwithstanding) but surely the use has saved innumerable people’s lives.

I’m not sure how useful this kind of argument is.

Extinction? I don't know about that [citation needed]. You guys should probably hang it up on the whole Santa Monica temperature thing. He's obviously just trolling y'all now and having a good laugh about how he lives rent free in your heads. Same with Daily Mail.

Both DM and AGW serve as convenient anchor points from which either denial or panic can justify their existence.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Could it be that it's not really a cause but an effect though?
I mean people with dementia have brain-blood barrier thinned and it lets all kind of stuff including microplastics to pass?

That's my thought on this. We see so much research linking X to longer or shorter lifespans, but other than for the big stuff there's no evidence of which direction the arrow of causality points. This pattern makes me very suspicious and makes me think the arrow points the other way. Why do we not find effects where the arrow can only go one direction?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Couldn't read the article with giving up personal info. Fuckum.

But...
let the other guy be the evidence. It's no great burden for me to err on the side of caution. Twenty years ago when there was so little information on nutrition, I thought the least I can do when grocery shopping is go for the foods with the shortest list of ingredients I can barely pronounce. A statement rooted in ignorance, I know. Less than a year ago I read this same suggestion in a Cleveland Clinic Wellness newsletter.

I had some seven years ago taken as much plastic out of my life as practical. For cooking and eating, it's all glass, stainless steel, and wood.

I think of all the harmful substances throughout my life because we did not know better. All these things have largely been removed from my thirty year old daughter's and seven year old granddaughter's life and yet I've read cancer rates are rising among younger generations. Is our environment so poisoned?

You realize wood can never be truly cleaned and serves as a source of biological contamination?

 

[TSwizzle]

It would be interesting to see a comparison between the benefits that plastic has brought us, versus the detrimental effects, specifically the microplastics and other plastic waste in the environment. For example, how many lives have been saved by advances in the plastic packaging of food and medicines that prevent contamination and spoilage in ways that can't be easily accomplished with other materials? I suspect the benefits far outweigh the drawbacks. Maybe microplastics is one of the prices we pay for living a long life in a modern society. Not that we shouldn't try to keep plastic waste to a minimum. Bottled water being one example, one of my pet peeves. Don't even get me started on that!

What's your beef with bottled water?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Maybe heart disease is being caused by too much exercise.

Actually it could be, bodybuilders do die from heart problems.

From exercise, though? Or from performance enhancers?

 

[thebeave]

It would be interesting to see a comparison between the benefits that plastic has brought us, versus the detrimental effects, specifically the microplastics and other plastic waste in the environment. For example, how many lives have been saved by advances in the plastic packaging of food and medicines that prevent contamination and spoilage in ways that can't be easily accomplished with other materials? I suspect the benefits far outweigh the drawbacks. Maybe microplastics is one of the prices we pay for living a long life in a modern society. Not that we shouldn't try to keep plastic waste to a minimum. Bottled water being one example, one of my pet peeves. Don't even get me started on that!

What's your beef with bottled water?

Generally, its no better tasting or safer than tap water. Plus, much more expensive than water out of your tap. Not to mention the wastefulness of making a plastic container for a few ounces. And transportation (especially Fiji water...good god what a waste). It really is a scam of the highest level. If you want more pure water than what comes out of your faucet, then buy an inline filter.

Here's a funny excerpt from Penn & Teller's show Bullshit about bottled water.

 

[Shadowy Man]

It would be interesting to see a comparison between the benefits that plastic has brought us, versus the detrimental effects, specifically the microplastics and other plastic waste in the environment. For example, how many lives have been saved by advances in the plastic packaging of food and medicines that prevent contamination and spoilage in ways that can't be easily accomplished with other materials? I suspect the benefits far outweigh the drawbacks. Maybe microplastics is one of the prices we pay for living a long life in a modern society. Not that we shouldn't try to keep plastic waste to a minimum. Bottled water being one example, one of my pet peeves. Don't even get me started on that!

The use of fossil fuels may be the cause of our extinction (the moderate temperatures in Santa Monica notwithstanding) but surely the use has saved innumerable people’s lives.

I’m not sure how useful this kind of argument is.

Extinction? I don't know about that [citation needed]. You guys should probably hang it up on the whole Santa Monica temperature thing. He's obviously just trolling y'all now and having a good laugh about how he lives rent free in your heads. Same with Daily Mail.

Yeah, extinction may not be our fate, possibly just a major reduction in population, driven primarily by our own disinterest in adaptation, which is our best approach right now, since prevention has never worked.

And I know he's trolling us on Santa Monica, so I just bring it up as an 'in joke'.

But it is clear that fossil fuels has saved many, many lives. Think of all the fire trucks, ambulances, medivac helicopters, etc. that run on internal combustion engines, for example. Hospitals having electrical power. I'm sure we could come up with an endless list. So, following your logic, the benefits of fossil fuels clearly far outweigh the drawbacks.

 

[TSwizzle]

It would be interesting to see a comparison between the benefits that plastic has brought us, versus the detrimental effects, specifically the microplastics and other plastic waste in the environment. For example, how many lives have been saved by advances in the plastic packaging of food and medicines that prevent contamination and spoilage in ways that can't be easily accomplished with other materials? I suspect the benefits far outweigh the drawbacks. Maybe microplastics is one of the prices we pay for living a long life in a modern society. Not that we shouldn't try to keep plastic waste to a minimum. Bottled water being one example, one of my pet peeves. Don't even get me started on that!

What's your beef with bottled water?

Generally, its no better tasting or safer than tap water. Plus, much more expensive than water out of your tap. Not to mention the wastefulness of making a plastic container for a few ounces. And transportation (especially Fiji water...good god what a waste). It really is a scam of the highest level. If you want more pure water than what comes out of your faucet, then buy an inline filter.

I was being cheeky when I asked. I agree with you that bottled water does seem wasteful and mostly unnecessary. My household rarely buys bottled water except the ones we have for emergency preparedness. Our household uses metal containers for drinking water. Maybe some plastics will be phased out or significantly reduced due to some other new material being invented.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

It would be interesting to see a comparison between the benefits that plastic has brought us, versus the detrimental effects, specifically the microplastics and other plastic waste in the environment. For example, how many lives have been saved by advances in the plastic packaging of food and medicines that prevent contamination and spoilage in ways that can't be easily accomplished with other materials? I suspect the benefits far outweigh the drawbacks. Maybe microplastics is one of the prices we pay for living a long life in a modern society. Not that we shouldn't try to keep plastic waste to a minimum. Bottled water being one example, one of my pet peeves. Don't even get me started on that!

What's your beef with bottled water?

Single use plastic where it's not needed most of the time.

 

[TV and credit cards]

Couldn't read the article with giving up personal info. Fuckum.

But...
let the other guy be the evidence. It's no great burden for me to err on the side of caution. Twenty years ago when there was so little information on nutrition, I thought the least I can do when grocery shopping is go for the foods with the shortest list of ingredients I can barely pronounce. A statement rooted in ignorance, I know. Less than a year ago I read this same suggestion in a Cleveland Clinic Wellness newsletter.

I had some seven years ago taken as much plastic out of my life as practical. For cooking and eating, it's all glass, stainless steel, and wood.

I think of all the harmful substances throughout my life because we did not know better. All these things have largely been removed from my thirty year old daughter's and seven year old granddaughter's life and yet I've read cancer rates are rising among younger generations. Is our environment so poisoned?

You realize wood can never be truly cleaned and serves as a source of biological contamination?

It’s better than plastic. I’m thinking about the cutting board test some years back when it was found wood had natural antimicrobial properties.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

It would be interesting to see a comparison between the benefits that plastic has brought us, versus the detrimental effects, specifically the microplastics and other plastic waste in the environment. For example, how many lives have been saved by advances in the plastic packaging of food and medicines that prevent contamination and spoilage in ways that can't be easily accomplished with other materials? I suspect the benefits far outweigh the drawbacks. Maybe microplastics is one of the prices we pay for living a long life in a modern society. Not that we shouldn't try to keep plastic waste to a minimum. Bottled water being one example, one of my pet peeves. Don't even get me started on that!

What's your beef with bottled water?

Generally, its no better tasting or safer than tap water.

Well water can be pretty bad. But there are options to improve it.

Plus, much more expensive than water out of your tap. Not to mention the wastefulness of making a plastic container for a few ounces. And transportation (especially Fiji water...good god what a waste). It really is a scam of the highest level. If you want more pure water than what comes out of your faucet, then buy an inline filter.

In general, it'd be a lot greener to have formal water taps at places where you buy bottled water, and you fill your container. You can use filters and what not for the local water source. It'd be cheaper and a heck of lot more sustainable.

 

[southernhybrid]

https://mayuwater.com/a/resources/hydration/are-there-microplastics-in-your-tap-water#

Does Your Tap Water Contain Microplastics?​

The short answer is yes. A recent study analyzed 159 samples of water from 14 countries sourced from both bottled water and tap water. The study found that over 80 percent of all samples contained microplastics, with an average of 4.34 plastic particles per liter of water. Research shows that bottled water contains about 50 percent more microplastics than tap water.

Health-Related Implications of Ingesting Microplastics​

A study from the University of Newcastle, Australia found that, on average, a person consumes about 5g of plastic weekly from drinking water. The harmful effects of microplastics on human health are still not fully known, but what is known is that plastic was designed to be durable. Microplastics enter the body through ingestion (when drinking water) and even through inhalation and dermal contact. Science Direct has stated that microplastics can be absorbed by biota tissue, organs, and even cells. Microplastics may pose acute and sub-chronic toxicity, carcinogenicity, and developmental danger.

There are filters that can be used to get rid of the micro plastics. I'll have to look into that and hope the water tastes better in Indy than it does here. Plus we had to test our tap water for lead recently and there was some evidence that lead had gotten into out water system. We're probably doomed one way or the other.

 

[Swammerdami]

It would be interesting to see a comparison between the benefits that plastic has brought us, versus the detrimental effects, specifically the microplastics and other plastic waste in the environment.

Call the average benefit per person X; or the total benefit P⋅X where X is total human population.
Call the detriment to the environment of one person's plastic use Y, or the total detriment to the environment P⋅Y.
But the degraded environment affects EVERYONE, for total detriment of P⋅P⋅Y (or even worse, (P+P')⋅P⋅Y where P' denotes the non-human creatures that concern us). The total benefit is proportional to population, but the total detriment is proportional to population SQUARED.

This isn't the "Overpopulation" thread, but overpopulation rears its ugly head again. A poison that would be almost harmless with moderate human population can outweigh its benefits when the population is eight billion. Plastics are obviously not the only instance of this effect.

Left as an exercise: Find something whose benefit increases with population squared.

 

[ideologyhunter]

I think they'll find that when microplastics interact with brain worms, you got your real problems.

 

[Swammerdami]

You guys should probably hang it up on the whole Santa Monica temperature thing. He's obviously just trolling y'all now and having a good laugh about how he lives rent free in your heads. Same with Daily Mail.

Accusations of trolling should be Reported to Mods.

But meanwhile ... are you suggesting that the take-over of the U.S. by fascists and crooks is regarded by some as just a source of humor? That does agree with opinions I've read about why so many millions of Americans cast their votes irrationally.

 

[steve_bank]

Anything small enough to cross the brain barrier is potentially bad.

Your blood-brain barrier (BBB) is a protective layer that lines the inner surfaces of the blood vessels inside your brain. It's a key part of how your brain and nervous system work. Though the name includes the word “barrier,” it's really more of a filter and behaves like a gatekeeper to your brain.

The blood-brain barrier (BBB) constitutes a selective filter for exchange of water, solutes, nutrients, and controls toxic compounds or pathogens entry. Some parasites, bacteria, and viruses have however developed various CNS invasion strategies, and can bypass the brain barriers.

But what the hell, I have been adding powdered plastic to my coffee, its great.

 

[steve_bank]

It would be interesting to see a comparison between the benefits that plastic has brought us, versus the detrimental effects, specifically the microplastics and other plastic waste in the environment. For example, how many lives have been saved by advances in the plastic packaging of food and medicines that prevent contamination and spoilage in ways that can't be easily accomplished with other materials? I suspect the benefits far outweigh the drawbacks. Maybe microplastics is one of the prices we pay for living a long life in a modern society. Not that we shouldn't try to keep plastic waste to a minimum. Bottled water being one example, one of my pet peeves. Don't even get me started on that!

In a sense it is all a trade off.

Air pollution versus then abundance of material goods and services. Increased risk of cancer from use of carcinogenic chemicals ad materials.

High speed traffic and ease of travel versus risk of death and injury in an accident.

 

[Elixir]

It would be interesting to see a comparison between the benefits that plastic has brought us, versus the detrimental effects, specifically the microplastics and other plastic waste in the environment. For example, how many lives have been saved by advances in the plastic packaging of food and medicines that prevent contamination and spoilage in ways that can't be easily accomplished with other materials? I suspect the benefits far outweigh the drawbacks. Maybe microplastics is one of the prices we pay for living a long life in a modern society. Not that we shouldn't try to keep plastic waste to a minimum. Bottled water being one example, one of my pet peeves. Don't even get me started on that!

In a sense it is all a trade off.

Air pollution versus then abundance of material goods and services. Increased risk of cancer from use of carcinogenic chemicals ad materials.

High speed traffic and ease of travel versus risk of death and injury in an accident.

Yeah it is a rat’s nest of trade-offs. In 1970 I left CA because it felt geologically ecologically and sociologically unstable.
In 1995 I started to make plans to leave Boulder County for the same sociological and ecological reasons, despite the relatively stable-feeling geology.
Now I’m in a place with some of the best air and water quality in the lower 48, have foregone most travel and try to minimize my impact. But they’re starting to charge for that; the tax bill this year reflects a seven digit valuation based on how much Texans and other CA transplants are paying for nearby properties.
After much consideration I/we have decided to stick it out for another number of years, mostly due to the lack of “better” choices.
With a little luck we both might die just barely penniless, having enjoyed using up our savings, and leaving some valuable stuff for our extended families.

 

[steve_bank]

I was never in La. Video of the pre pollution controls smog was something.

In 79 I stayed in Boulder at a friend of a friend's place on a cross country drive. Did some boldering around Boulder. The Rocky Flats arsenal contaminated with nuclear waste was not too far away. We drove by it. We drove past it.

In the late 80s early 90s I spent time in the North Idaho panhandle, the Silver Valley, silver mining. It was a beautiful area to live, but with heavy toxic contamination. I ended up in Seattle because I could not make a go of it.