Atheists: Questions 2, 3 and 4.

[Keith&Co.]

S:
For how long are you, or anyone else that you know, qualified to vouch for the future existence of yourself and of the universe?

Saeed H H Alyousuf

The good news is, when the universe ends, no one will be around to note that I was wrong about vouching for its future existence.

Well, you'll go down in history as the guy that was wrong, but lucky for you, no one will ever teach from that chapter of that textbook.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The good news is, when the universe ends, no one will be around to note that I was wrong about vouching for its future existence.

Well, you'll go down in history as the guy that was wrong, but lucky for you, no one will ever teach from that chapter of that textbook.

Or write that chapter. Or notice that the chapter needed to be written.

 

[Malintent]

If you have not accepted Jesus into your life, then you are not living the REAL LIFE. You are living the FAKE LIFE of one who wishes to be evil and sin by worshipping a false-profit-pedophile. JESUS is the only entity that can GUARENTEE the FUTURE EXISTANCE.

See you all in hell you pedophile, rapist, cunts!

 

[Malintent]

I wonder if he thinks he knows what his Deathday is as well as he knows what his Birthday is?

Sad, what is your deathdate, and if you don't know that it is tomorrow morning at 10:53:01, or in 20 years, 5 days, and 23 seconds from now, then you cannot say your future existance is guarenteed. That is how words work.. they mean things. If you wish to be understood you will need to use your words in an understandable way.

what is the difference between "the life" that you are referring to, and being "alive"?
What does the word "guarentee" mean in the context you are using it? is it different than "assuring the continuation of"?

Why am I asking? (that was a quetion to myself)

 

[free radical]

Your failure to answer does prove that the Atheist can believe in the death but not in the life. Therefore, for the Atheist the Death is Real but the Life is NOT.
Saeed H H Alyousuf

You need to G00gle the definition of the NON SEQUITOR FALLACY ,,Saad man!

 

[free radical]

Q2:
Does the atheist believe in the future existence of self and of the universe?
Q3:
If the answer to Q2 is “NO” then:
How can devote self to the future that, do not believe in, as the real human life?
Q4:
If the answer to the Q2 is “YES” then:
What is the reasonably satisfactory basis for belief in the future existence of self and of the universe?
Saeed H H Alyousuf

Universe always existed in some form or shape since matter can't be destroyed or created only changed it will most likely exist forever..and since we all are part of universe we will exist in some form also..atoms most likely..

http://youtu.be/nZiROWO6iVs

 

[zorq]

I think to Saeed, the "real life" is really the "afterlife" that he imagines that he is guaranteed. This corporeal life on Earth is just the fake life used by his god to decide who is worthy of a "real life." So because Saeed believes that he is guaranteed to live forever in his afterlife by the most trustworthy source out there: a book starring a pedophile warlord written 1400 years ago, it is obvious that atheists are not really alive at all.

 

[Underseer]

I haven't failed to answer, i've chosen not to answer, not until you provide some clue as ot how answering that question would advance the conversatoin. Since your premise is faulty, your conclusion must be faulty. Nothing is proven based on my not answering your derail.

that the Atheist can believe in the death but not in the life.

You're just repeating something you claimed earlier. And you've never actually shown to be true.
And never, ever shown to be important to anyone in interpreting life.

Therefore, for the Atheist the Death is Real but the Life is NOT.

Faulty premise, piss poor logic, your conclusion is meaningless.
And you're mostly just repeating yourself.

Saeed, we all live as if several futures are possible. We do not accept a future that is fated. Thus your theories about atheists and the future are in error. And your conclusions are worthless.

Like most of your religion.

Feel free to show the slightest inkling of just how wrong you are.

S:
Your failure to deny and refute your belief in death besides, your earlier admission of inability to believe in the future existence http://talkfreethought.org/showthread.php?513-Atheists-Questions-2-3-and-4&p=65374&viewfull=1#post65374 does further confirm my statement:

Your failure to answer does prove that the Atheist can believe in the death but not in the life. Therefore, for the Atheist the Death is Real but the Life is NOT.

Saeed H H Alyousuf

Good point, just like your failure to refute lightning proves my earlier argument.

 

[DBT]

God, it seems, vouches for anything the believer happens to desire...my goodness, what a coincidence.

"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires."Susan B. Anthony

 

[Rhea]

Excuse me, but why is Keith's "failure" dooming me to the fate that death is real but the life is not... whatever that means?

S:
For how long are you, or anyone else that you know, qualified to vouch for the future existence of yourself and of the universe?

Saeed H H Alyousuf

Saeed, you really need to explain what happens when one "vouches for one's future existence." I realize you may not quite get why this has no connection at all to you next statement, but, dude, it doesn't connect. So think hard.

You say,
1. A person "knows" they will get up tomorrow
2. ???
3. Life is real

What is #2, saeed? I mean, I get that you probably think your holy book has answered that, but you need to share the answer, because otherwise, sorry to say it, pal, but you sound EXACTLY like my mother during a Parkinson hallucination; jumping from one idea to another and assuming we all saw the same hallucination and that it all connects perfectly.

You keep claiming this connection, but you have just claimed it, you haven't taught anything about what it means. My car is green! Therefore it has a stereo! What are you talking about?

What's the spiritual connection between knowledge of future and life being real? You are not making a bit of sense here. Spill the holy book reference at least so we can follow along on your hallucination. 'Cause right now it's just a bad movie with a worse editing job.

 

[Methinx]

Muslims believe that Allah is the Cherisher and Sustainer of the Worlds.
Allah is the glue that keeps everything in harmony. He therefore 'vouches /guarantees' the future existence of the Universe

Take away this 'sustaining' and the whole thing will collapse.

Arabs take this notion so much for granted ...they don't think they need to prove that Allah exists in the first place.

 

[doubtingt]

What the OP illustrates is the difference between rational and faith-based belief. With faith (belief based upon nothing but your desire to believe it), beliefs are all-or-nothing absolutist belief. There is no allowance for any reasonable doubt, because their is no reason involved. If you believe is based upon nothing but desire, then there is nothing to limit the level of certainty to anything below 100% blind absolutism.

This is why Saeed cannot even grasp the concept that atheists can believe that tomorrow will exist, yet also allow for the possibility that it will not.

For rational belief, 100% certain belief is never possible, precisely because it is belief based upon reasoning about evidence. Since evidence is always incomplete and potentially flawed, no amount of it can support absolute certainty.
In terms of motivating action, there is little practical difference between 100% certainty and 95%. But in terms of allowing for revision to the belief in the light of new information there is massive difference, with 100% certainty promoting a failure to even pay attention to new counter evidence, no matter how strong. The counter evidence must be strong to alter a 95% confidence belief, but that 5% doubt at least allows the person a chance to consider such evidence should it arise.
Also, note that anything above 50% confidence is a belief and means the person thinks that X is more likely than not, thus they will tend to behave as though X were true.

 

[Rhea]

Muslims believe that Allah is the Cherisher and Sustainer of the Worlds.
Allah is the glue that keeps everything in harmony. He therefore 'vouches /guarantees' the future existence of the Universe

Take away this 'sustaining' and the whole thing will collapse.

Arabs take this notion so much for granted ...they don't think they need to prove that Allah exists in the first place.

Aaaahhh, that makes his position a little less incoherent. So maybe he is saying,

1.0 A person "knows" they will get up tomorrow
2.0 and since you can't actually "know" it, you must be gaining your knowing from elsewhere (it's not possible to be reasonably sure in saeed's world)
2.1 and only allah can be responsible for tomorrow
2.2 so the knowing must come from allah
2.3 moreover, life only comes from allah
2.4 therefore if you believe in a life that didn't come from allah it's not actually there
2.5 so it's a good thing you believe in tomorrow,
2.6 because otherwise you wouldn't be believing in allah
2.7 and whatever you did believe in wouldn't actually exist
2.8 so if you "know" you will get up tomorrow, then
3.0 Life is real


Do I have that right, saeed?

And, say, all of us who do not have "real" lives, do we exist in your world? And if not, why would muslims fight against atheists if we're not even real?

 

[atrib]

S:
For how long are you, or anyone else that you know, qualified to vouch for the future existence of yourself and of the universe?

Saeed H H Alyousuf

Saeed, we have been through this before. For the modest sum of one million US dollars, I will guarantee the future existence of the universe for all eternity. If the universe were to cease to exist within this time, you would be eligible for a full refund of your payment. 100% money back guaranteed!!! You have nothing to lose!

Obviously, you do not believe in my guarantee. But for some reason you believe that an uneducated warlord with delusions of grandeur who lived many hundreds of years ago somehow got it right, and that the imaginary supercreature he invented (Allah) is real. You have been asked to explain why you think Muhammed got it right, but you haven't done that yet. Your arguments fail on many levels, but your lack of ability to think critically, or even like an adult, stands out clearly in your posts.

 

[atrib]

S:
For how long are you, or anyone else that you know, qualified to vouch for the future existence of yourself and of the universe?

Saeed H H Alyousuf

And yet again, Saeed, you have never yet shown us that we need to have the future vouched for. You have not shown that anyone exists who can vouch for the future. As near as we can tell, various futures are equally likely and that's the way humans live.
Your claims to have discovered a failure in my ideology still have no support.




You're just making shit up and claiming a victory.







Like always.

He's just repeating the same shit he made up a long time ago. He hasn't come up with anything original in this thread, or the last 5 threads he started on this topic, for that matter.

 

[Underseer]

Saeed, try as you might, you cannot deny the existence of lightning, therefore Zeus is real, but if Zeus is real that must mean Allah is false.

Thus I have proven that Zues is real and that Allah is false.

Of course, you can counter this by pointing out that the logic of my argument is deeply flawed and based on an argument from ignorance fallacy, but if you do that, you will also undermine your own arguments on this same topic.

 

[saeedalyousuf]

The Standing Challenge of the Quran.

S:
For how long are you, or anyone else that you know, qualified to vouch for the future existence of yourself and of the universe?

Saeed H H Alyousuf

And yet again, Saeed, you have never yet shown us that we need to have the future vouched for. You have not shown that anyone exists who can vouch for the future. As near as we can tell, various futures are equally likely and that's the way humans live.
Your claims to have discovered a failure in my ideology still have no support.




You're just making shit up and claiming a victory.







Like always.

S:
Not true:

The standing challenge of the Qur'an for about fourteen hundred years is the testimony for the credibility of the prophet Muhammad:

Surah Al-Israa Ruku 10 Surah 17

88 Say: Verily, though mankind and the Jinn should assemble to produce the like of this Qur'an, they could not produce the like thereof though they were helpers one of another.

M. Pickthall Quran Translation

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20130608033430AAebzSw

Saeed H H Alyousuf

 

[Sheshbazzar]

Typical vacuous islamic al-buraq flying jackass shit.

Like always.

 

[Caveat_Imperator]

And yet again, Saeed, you have never yet shown us that we need to have the future vouched for. You have not shown that anyone exists who can vouch for the future. As near as we can tell, various futures are equally likely and that's the way humans live.
Your claims to have discovered a failure in my ideology still have no support.




You're just making shit up and claiming a victory.







Like always.

S:
Not true:

It is true, Saeed. Your arguments have been destroyed from the very first day you posted them.

The standing challenge of the Qur'an for about fourteen hundred years is the testimony for the credibility of the prophet pedophile Muhammad:

Surah Al-Israa Ruku 10 Surah 17

88 Say: Verily, though mankind and the Jinn should assemble to produce the like of this Qur'an, they could not produce the like thereof though they were helpers one of another.

That challenge has been met many times. Ignoring that fact because it is a humiliating defeat for islam won't make it any less of a fact.

 

[Underseer]

And yet again, Saeed, you have never yet shown us that we need to have the future vouched for. You have not shown that anyone exists who can vouch for the future. As near as we can tell, various futures are equally likely and that's the way humans live.
Your claims to have discovered a failure in my ideology still have no support.




You're just making shit up and claiming a victory.







Like always.

S:
Not true:

The standing challenge of the Qur'an for about fourteen hundred years is the testimony for the credibility of the prophet Muhammad:

Surah Al-Israa Ruku 10 Surah 17

88 Say: Verily, though mankind and the Jinn should assemble to produce the like of this Qur'an, they could not produce the like thereof though they were helpers one of another.

M. Pickthall Quran Translation

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20130608033430AAebzSw

Saeed H H Alyousuf

Do you believe lighting is real, or don't you?