Atheists: Questions 2, 3 and 4.

[saeedalyousuf]

From Discussions under the topic “Atheists: Question 1” in responses to the question:

For how long are you, or anyone else that you know, qualified to vouch for the future existence of yourself and of the universe?

http://www.freeratio.org/showthread.php?t=328857

It is quite evident that no human being is qualified to vouch for the future existence of self and of the universe. Some of the quotations from the discussion under the above mentioned topic:

Tom Sawyer:

I can't vouch for the future at all and I don't know anybody who can.

http://www.freeratio.org/showthread.php?p=7588179#post758817


J-D:

One day I will die.

I don't know when.

So?

http://www.freeratio.org/showthread.php?p=7588659#post7588659


Steve bnk:

We can not know if at any moment the universe may cease to exist or if our predictions of the future are right or wrong. Is this not clear to you? We do nit have to feel assured of anything.

http://www.freeratio.org/showthread.php?p=7588130#post7588130




Davka:

The only "real" human life is the life we are living this very instant. Nothing else is guaranteed.

So what?

http://www.freeratio.org/showthread.php?p=7595025#post7595025

Underseer :

None of us have ever been qualified to predict the future existence of any individual, the Earth, nor even the universe (although until the universe tears itself apart from its own expansion, it is hard to imagine any disaster capable of destroying the universe).

http://www.freeratio.org/showthread.php?p=7588936#post7588936

Based upon the response to discussion of the topic “Atheists: Question 1” I post the following questions:

Q2:
Does the atheist believe in the future existence of self and of the universe?

Q3:
If the answer to Q2 is “NO” then:
How can devote self to the future that, do not believe in, as the real human life?

Q4:
If the answer to the Q2 is “YES” then:
What is the reasonably satisfactory basis for belief in the future existence of self and of the universe?

Saeed H H Alyousuf

 

[Underseer]

Has Saeed even made the transition to the new boards yet?

 

[Keith&Co.]

OMG, the same questions, the same assumptions, the same asinine approach... Can't we pretend, a new forum, new arguments?

Saeed, we don't see any threat to the future existence of self and of universe. So we expect to see tomorrow.
This does not mean any atheists thinks that the future is guaranteed.
Nor is it safe to say we 'believe' in the future.

You're wrong before you even finish posing your presuppositionist questions, Saeed. And all of this has been explained to you many, many times.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Based upon the response to discussion of the topic “Atheists: Question 1” I post the following questions:

Q2:
Does the atheist believe in the future existence of self and of the universe?

Yes.

Q4:
If the answer to the Q2 is “YES” then:
What is the reasonably satisfactory basis for belief in the future existence of self and of the universe?

Basic logical reasoning. Both the universe and myself existed yesterday and we exist today and there's no particular reason to believe either will change before tommorrow.

 

[funinspace]

OMG, the same questions, the same assumptions, the same asinine approach... Can't we pretend, a new forum, new arguments?

I could have predicted that Doth not the sun rise from the east each morning?

 

[braces_for_impact]

 

[Perspicuo]

Do you know anyone who can go faster than a speeding bullet, more powerful than a locomotive, able to leap tall buildings in a single bound?

No?

Therefore... Superman exists!

And all you Asupermanists are going to the Phantom Zone! Serves you well, disbelievers!

 

[sdelsolray]

Saeed's Greatest Hits.

 

[Asha'man]

In my lifetime, I've observed the end of the universe exactly zero times, and the end of myself exactly zero times. I have indirect evidence that the universe has not ended even once in the last 13.7 billion years. My conclusion is that the rate of universe ending is astronomically low, and that the rate of self ending is at least moderately low. Given an absence of evidence that these rates will change abruptly, I should expect the rate to remain the same. I fail to see how this is a challenging question.

 

[DBT]

It is quite evident that no human being is qualified to vouch for the future existence of self and of the universe. Some of the quotations from the discussion under the above mentioned topic:

saeedalyousuf, it doesn't matter what you believe, or what I believe, the Universe is what it is regardless of your set of beliefs or my set of beliefs.

Whatever you or I happen to believe is either related to the nature and state of the Universe - which is what it is regardless of our beliefs - or it is not related, and either you or I or both of us has gone along a path of our own making. A path that is not related to the Universe as it is.

This is why claims need to be related to actual things and not merely contructs of the mind, this religion, that religion, this or that belief. Nor is it sufficient to refer to a book and say ''this is my justification'' when the book itself cannot be shown to relate to the Univere as it is.

As it is you who is making a claim on behalf of the world view of Islam, where is the relationship between the claims of Islam, the existence of its God, etc, to be found the actual world? Can you point to something in the Universe, the World, and show that this supports the claims of Islam, the very same claims that you happen to support...

Without that you have no case to put forward. Without that you have no claim for justified belief, yet alone knowledge. Without that, you merely have faith.

 

[Underseer]

In my lifetime, I've observed the end of the universe exactly zero times, and the end of myself exactly zero times. I have indirect evidence that the universe has not ended even once in the last 13.7 billion years. My conclusion is that the rate of universe ending is astronomically low, and that the rate of self ending is at least moderately low. Given an absence of evidence that these rates will change abruptly, I should expect the rate to remain the same. I fail to see how this is a challenging question.

Maybe it's a challenging question for himself.

 

[Sheshbazzar]

DO NOT FEED

 

[il Palazzo]

Q2:
Does the atheist believe in the future existence of self and of the universe?

This one is kinda hard to understand. I do believe that I and the universe will continue to exist for some foreseeable future. I do also believe that the existence will eventually cease. Certainly for me. For the universe? Not so sure but it wouldn't matter much for me once I no longer exist.

Does this count as "believe in the future existence" for you? Because it seems so simple that I think most people would believe it so the question would be kinda pointless. Or is what you really mean is "Do believe in eternal soul for [myself] and infinitely existing universe?"

Since it's kinda ambiguous, I should probably answer both Q3 and Q4 just in case.

Q3:
If the answer to Q2 is “NO” then:
How can devote self to the future that, do not believe in, as the real human life?

Big assumption here. I don't remember devoting myself to anything and I suspect neither do quite a large number of people. There's nothing wrong with just living you life and try to have some fun. You might disagree on this, but it's OK. I don't really devote myself to the idea of non-devotion either.

Q4:
If the answer to the Q2 is “YES” then:
What is the reasonably satisfactory basis for belief in the future existence of self and of the universe?

With no apparent cause of death present, like if I just noticed the smell of cyanide in the coffee I just drank, most people would agree that it is perfectly reasonable to believe that I would survive for at least a couple of minutes. Same for the universe.

Of course, there could be some cosmic phenomenon that would just destroy the universe along with all life in it, and it could probably happen anytime without warning. But to spend every second of your life in fear that next second would never come would be quite a bit insane and rather wasteful.

 

[DBT]

It is quite evident that no human being is qualified to vouch for the future existence of self and of the universe. Some of the quotations from the discussion under the above mentioned topic:

saeedalyousuf, it doesn't matter what you believe, or what I believe, the Universe is what it is regardless of your set of beliefs or my set of beliefs.

Whatever you or I happen to believe is either related to the nature and state of the Universe - which is what it is regardless of our beliefs - or it is not related, and either you or I or both of us has gone along a path of our own making. A path that is not related to the Universe as it is.

This is why claims need to be related to actual things and not merely contructs of the mind, this religion, that religion, this or that belief. Nor is it sufficient to refer to a book and say ''this is my justification'' when the book itself cannot be shown to relate to the Univere as it is.

As it is you who is making a claim on behalf of the world view of Islam, where is the relationship between the claims of Islam, the existence of its God, etc, to be found the actual world? Can you point to something in the Universe, the World, and show that this supports the claims of Islam, the very same claims that you happen to support...

Without that you have no case to put forward. Without that you have no claim for justified belief, yet alone knowledge. Without that, you merely have faith.

Hi, saeedalyousuf, what do you think of this? Do you agree?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Let me rephrase the questions into a less ambiguous form.

Q2:
Does the atheist believe in the future existence of self and of the universe?

Do atheists know the future?

Answer: No. Anyone who claims to know the future is a liar.

How can devote self to the future that, do not believe in, as the real human life?

How can you have conviction to live without knowing the future?

Answer: Because we are here, roll the bones.

Has Saeed even made the transition to the new boards yet?

Doesn't he need to wait a month so he can get behind?

 

[braces_for_impact]

Perhaps if you stop naming him he won't come. You know kinda like a demon or something. The demon of pseudo-intellectualism.

 

[steve_bnk]

Q2:
Does the atheist believe in the futureexistence of self and of the universe?


Observationally we conclude theuniverse is not likely to just stop being or ending.


Don't know what you mean about self,life after death? I have no idea, I see no evidence for it.


Q3:
If the answer to Q2 is “NO” then:
How can devote self to the futurethat, do not believe in, as the real human life?


There is no reason to not go on. Livingfeels good without any belief in a heaven or god.. If you believe inan eternity side by side in heaven with Allah, what is the point ofhaving any concerns over Earthly material pursuits?


Q4:
If the answer to the Q2 is “YES”then:
What is the reasonably satisfactorybasis for belief in the future existence of self and of the universe?


Again, observationally the universedoes not appear likely to just end. Don't know what you mean byfuture self.

 

[Kharakov]

In my lifetime, I've observed the end of the universe exactly zero times, and the end of myself exactly zero times. I have indirect evidence that the universe has not ended even once in the last 13.7 billion years. My conclusion is that the rate of universe ending is astronomically low, and that the rate of self ending is at least moderately low. Given an absence of evidence that these rates will change abruptly, I should expect the rate to remain the same. I fail to see how this is a challenging question.

Pretty unobservant. From all the things I've read on the internet, the apocalypse has happened over 20 times in the last 15 years. Not only that, but the vacuum energy decoherence state was breached several times as well, which means that the universe ended. This post does not exist.

 

[Keith&Co.]

This post does not exist.

Who are you talking to?

 

[Underseer]

Perhaps if you stop naming him he won't come. You know kinda like a demon or something. The demon of pseudo-intellectualism.

Be nice.

There, now hopefully you will correct me the next time I get more snippy than I oughtta be.