Australia, where "Left" is Centre

[bigfield]

I filled out ABC's Vote Compass to see where I sit on the political spectrum. No surprises for me, personally, but I was somewhat surprised to see where the major parties were placed on the grid:

Vote Compass Australia 2025 - Australia Votes - ABC News

See how your views align with Australian parties using Vote Compass. Use the Vote Compass website and make an informed choice in the 2025 Federal Election.

votecompass.abc.net.au

I agree with the position of the parties in the chart. The ALP is slightly socially conservative, and it has pursued neoliberal policies mixed with the occasional nation-building project, during it's terms in government since Hawke-Keating in the 80's and 90's. The LNP is very socially conservative, opposed to all progress on social justice, and increase or entrench inequality.

However, this not how they are treated in the media:

The ALP is regarded as a centre-left party, not centrist.
The LNP is regarded as a centre-right party, but here they are not even close to the centre.

That means the "centre" is not actually anywhere near the centre:



I would argue that this shift of the centre can be explained by the fact that Australia's media is overwhelmingly right wing and ownership is concentrated to a handful of corporations that directly profit from right wing governments.

The shift is even more extreme in the US. The Democrats are economically right of the ALP and the GOP is both more conservative and more economically right wing than the LNP.

 

[Metaphor]

I filled out ABC's Vote Compass to see where I sit on the political spectrum. No surprises for me, personally, but I was somewhat surprised to see where the major parties were placed on the grid:

Vote Compass Australia 2025 - Australia Votes - ABC News

See how your views align with Australian parties using Vote Compass. Use the Vote Compass website and make an informed choice in the 2025 Federal Election.

votecompass.abc.net.au

View attachment 38067

I agree with the position of the parties in the chart.

Where do you believe the ABC itself lies on this chart? Do you think the ABC's political orientation has influenced its construction of this chart?

The ALP is slightly socially conservative, and it has pursued neoliberal policies mixed with the occasional nation-building project, during it's terms in government since Hawke-Keating in the 80's and 90's. The LNP is very socially conservative, opposed to all progress on social justice, and increase or entrench inequality.

When you say conservatives "oppose all progress on social justice", what do you mean?

However, this not how they are treated in the media:

The ALP is regarded as a centre-left party, not centrist.
The LNP is regarded as a centre-right party, but here they are not even close to the centre.

That means the "centre" is not actually anywhere near the centre:

View attachment 38069

I would argue that this shift of the centre can be explained by the fact that Australia's media is overwhelmingly right wing and ownership is concentrated to a handful of corporations that directly profit from right wing governments.

What other way can you determine the centre other than looking at all positions and mreasuring the centre?

The shift is even more extreme in the US. The Democrats are economically right of the ALP and the GOP is both more conservative and more economically right wing than the LNP.

If you believe Labor to be centre and LNP to be (hard right?), and these are the two major parties in Australia, doesn't that mean your leftist position is extremely unpopular?

 

[Tigers!]

No!

 

[Rhea]

If you believe Labor to be centre and LNP to be (hard right?), and these are the two major parties in Australia, doesn't that mean your leftist position is extremely unpopular?

Only if one assumes each party has an equal number of adherents.
Does each party have an equal number of adherents?


Moreover, wouldn’t the description of the “center” of political ideologies depend upon the ideology, and not the sways of public opinion about the ideologies?

Does communism become a “Centrist” position on the basis of China having a population of a billion?

 

[Hermit]

No!

Looks spot on to me.

I thought I was socially and economically a bit more to the left than that, but yeah, close enough. Perhaps my "don't knows" were interpreted as "neutral".

 

[Politesse]

The shift is even more extreme in the US. The Democrats are economically right of the ALP and the GOP is both more conservative and more economically right wing than the LNP.

In some ways, yes, but it's important to remember that we've had this bipartisan system for a long time and the parties themselves are often more so a formal structure than a consistent predictor of actions or policies. A poster here often calls the Democratic party the "big tent party" because of the diversity of opinions it presumptively represents, some of which are genuinely leftist and others not. The Republican party is similar, but in modern times its spectrum of variation is more on the another axis, centralization versus libertarianism. They're all conservatives. But "Democrat" can mean anything from "Luxury gay space communist" to "basically a Republican in social ideology, but firmly opposed to Trumpism". In a forced-choice environment one accepts the only alliances one can.

 

[bigfield]

Where do you believe the ABC itself lies on this chart? Do you think the ABC's political orientation has influenced its construction of this chart?

I'm not sure where to place the ABC, since they don't tend to offer their own policies.

People frequently complain that the ABC is a leftist organisation because a lot of their programming is socially progressive. However their political coverage tends to be painfully impartial.

If I were to guess the political inclinations of their journalists and political programming hosts then I would suspect that they mostly align with wet liberals like Malcolm Turnbull.

When you say conservatives "oppose all progress on social justice", what do you mean?

"Social justice" as in better opportunities and outcomes for people who are currently getting a raw deal from society.
"Progress" as in enacting programs, ending programs and changing laws to make the country fairer.
"Oppose" as in refusing to do anything to fix these problems, and actually making some of them worse.

What other way can you determine the centre other than looking at all positions and mreasuring the centre?

That's what Vote Compass did: https://voxpoplabs.com/votecompass/methodology.pdf

If you believe Labor to be centre and LNP to be (hard right?), and these are the two major parties in Australia, doesn't that mean your leftist position is extremely unpopular?

I'm well aware that my positions are unpopular, although I wouldn't say "extremely" so. My positions align pretty closely with The Greens' policies (with perhaps the major exception of nuclear power), and about 10% of Australians vote Greens.

 

[Metaphor]

If you believe Labor to be centre and LNP to be (hard right?), and these are the two major parties in Australia, doesn't that mean your leftist position is extremely unpopular?

Only if one assumes each party has an equal number of adherents.
Does each party have an equal number of adherents?

No. Labor (ALP) and Liberal (LNP) have about equal popularity overall, with either major party having held power federally and in the states. The 'third force' in Australian politics (The Greens currently) is to the left of ALP.

Moreover, wouldn’t the description of the “center” of political ideologies depend upon the ideology, and not the sways of public opinion about the ideologies?

I don't know. But when people say Hillary Clinton is 'centre right' and Bernie Sanders is 'centrist', I wonder what policies would make a politician far left?

Does communism become a “Centrist” position on the basis of China having a population of a billion?

I expect not, but then the voting patterns of a one-party State can hardly be a good measure of the will of the people.

 

[bilby]

Nobody seems to agree on what 'Left', 'Right', 'Conservative' or 'Progressive' mean. Those axes should instead be labelled:

Social: Fearful <-> Hopeful
Economic: Generous <-> Greedy

 

[Metaphor]

Where do you believe the ABC itself lies on this chart? Do you think the ABC's political orientation has influenced its construction of this chart?

I'm not sure where to place the ABC, since they don't tend to offer their own policies.

Of course it does. The ABC reveals its political position every day in the language it chooses and the stories it features and its elevation of leftist opinion pieces which they claim as 'Analysis' articles (seriously - what in every other newspaper including the Guardian would be called 'Opinion').

People frequently complain that the ABC is a leftist organisation because a lot of their programming is socially progressive. However their political coverage tends to be painfully impartial.

Impartial is what I would hope and expect from a taxpayer funded organisation.

If I were to guess the political inclinations of their journalists and political programming hosts then I would suspect that they mostly align with wet liberals like Malcolm Turnbull.

That isn't what I would guess.

When you say conservatives "oppose all progress on social justice", what do you mean?

"Social justice" as in better opportunities and outcomes for people who are currently getting a raw deal from society.
"Progress" as in enacting programs, ending programs and changing laws to make the country fairer.
"Oppose" as in refusing to do anything to fix these problems, and actually making some of them worse.

Okay - I disagree on your evaluation of conservatives and I suspect we would disagree on almost all of your secondary definitions (including who is getting a 'raw deal' and why) but thank you for your explanation.

What other way can you determine the centre other than looking at all positions and mreasuring the centre?

That's what Vote Compass did: https://voxpoplabs.com/votecompass/methodology.pdf

If 90% of voters vote either ALP or LNP, isn't the centre somewhere between them, and therefore the ALP must be to left of the line that divides the centre?
https://voxpoplabs.com/votecompass/methodology.pdf

If you believe Labor to be centre and LNP to be (hard right?), and these are the two major parties in Australia, doesn't that mean your leftist position is extremely unpopular?

I'm well aware that my positions are unpopular, although I wouldn't say "extremely" so. My positions align pretty closely with The Greens' policies (with perhaps the major exception of nuclear power), and about 10% of Australians vote Greens.

Reading through The Greens policy positions, I can see why it doesn't have more widespread support.

 

[Patooka]

I'm not sure where to place the ABC, since they don't tend to offer their own policies.

People frequently complain that the ABC is a leftist organisation because a lot of their programming is socially progressive. However their political coverage tends to be painfully impartial.

Especially considering how most of Australian media is run by either Rupert Murdoch or Peter Costello. Anyone to the left of Ghengis Khan has a fucking impossible time getting media coverage. Also, ABC journalists have been steadily being replaced by Murdoch drones for some time.

 

[Metaphor]

For context, Australia is now heading to a federal election, after our Prime Minister visited the Governor-General to beg him for the Queen's permission to hold an election.

 

[Patooka]

after our Prime Minister visited the Governor-General to beg him for the Queen's permission to hold an election.

Do you honestly think if the GG told ScoMo to go and get fucked there wouldn't be an election? Personally, I reckon if there was another Whitlam-esque event, the person would be elected PM for life purely out of spite.

Australia is a de facto Republic. You really shouldn't get hung up on definitions. Your attempt to imply Australia as a non-autonomous colony subservient to Great Britain is the exact opposite of providing context.

 

[Metaphor]

after our Prime Minister visited the Governor-General to beg him for the Queen's permission to hold an election.

Do you honestly think if the GG told ScoMo to go and get fucked there wouldn't be an election? Personally, I reckon if there was another Whitlam-esque event, the person would be elected PM for life purely out of spite.

Australia is a de facto Republic. You really shouldn't get hung up on definitions. Your attempt to imply Australia as a non-autonomous colony subservient to Great Britain is the exact opposite of providing context.

It's a mild, satirical, pro-republican comment. Calm your farm.

 

[Patooka]

This is the news strip when I go onto youtube:



Somehow, I've got a sneaking suspicion that the media coverage will be...slanted somewhat.

 

[Metaphor]

This is the news strip when I go onto youtube:

View attachment 38108

Somehow, I've got a sneaking suspicion that the media coverage will be...slanted somewhat.

Slanted? Why? Because it has included the news feeds of three major networks and SKY?

Or do you mean because Albanese couldn't tell a reporter either the unemployment rate or the RBA cash rate, and the media is reporting it?

Do you think that if ScoMo had been asked the same questions and had been unable to answer, the media wouldn't have covered it? I recall hearing quite a lot about ScoMo not knowing the price of a loaf of bread (for which the correct answer is 50c for store brand white sliced on clearance to $9+ for 'artisan' loaves for people who have more money than sense).

 

[Patooka]

Slanted? Why? Because it has included the news feeds of three major networks and SKY?

Part of the reason. The other part is that Labor gets zero media coverage unless they fuck up. Seriously, during 2020 I saw more news articles about Dan Andrews than Gladys Berejiklian and I live in fucking New South Wales.

Do you think that if ScoMo had been asked the same questions and had been unable to answer, the media wouldn't have covered it?

Sure, but you're missing the point. I'll spell it out for you:

Australian media will report on gaffes ScoMo does, because it is lazy journalism
Australian media will report on gaffes Albo does, because it is lazy journalism
Australian media will give ScoMo a platform to shill his policies and campaign promises, because it is lazy journalism
Australian media will not give Albo a platform to shill his policies and campaign promises because Murdoch and Costello are a pair of dishonest partisan cunts and journalists have to eat too.

And yes - because the vast majority of Australian media is controlled by either News Ltd or Channel Nine the remaining 4-5% of "independent news" is kinda forced to follow suit or be kept in the cold when media releases occur.

 

[Metaphor]

Part of the reason. The other part is that Labor gets zero media coverage unless they fuck up.

I do not believe your claim to be true.

Australian media will report on gaffes ScoMo does, because it is lazy journalism
Australian media will report on gaffes Albo does, because it is lazy journalism
Australian media will give ScoMo a platform to shill his policies and campaign promises, because it is lazy journalism
Australian media will not give Albo a platform to shill his policies and campaign promises because Murdoch and Costello are a pair of dishonest partisan cunts and journalists have to eat too.

I don't believe you.

The very first thing I am greeted with when going to https://7news.com.au/politics is a large-graphiced feature article called

Scott Morrison and Anthony Albanese’s plans for Australia - in less than a minute

And yes - because the vast majority of Australian media is controlled by either News Ltd or Channel Nine the remaining 4-5% of "independent news" is kinda forced to follow suit or be kept in the cold when media releases occur.

Is The Guardian Australia 'following suit'?

 

[Hermit]

Anyone trying to argue that the mass media in Australia are not biased is on a hiding to nothing. It has been for decades, and nothing has changed since Keith Murdoch, Clive Packer and Warwick Fairfax controlled what was reported in the papers, how it was reported and what was not reported.

Sometimes the bias was more blatant than others.

 

[Tigers!]

The Labour party can generally rely on the ABC (our taxes at work)
The Guardian is generally anti-coalition if not necessarily pro-labour.

What is your complaint? Those newspapers do not have to be purchased nor subscribed to.

IIRC in 2007 the Australian supported Kevin Rudd(erless)