Avengers 2: Age of Ultron

[Underseer]

Why didn't Thor use his lightning more often? Ultron's robots died when you stabbed them with an arrow, so when they were all lined up gathered to attack, a few thousand lightning bolts blasting into them would have been even more effective than if he'd remembered he could use them when he was fighting the Hydra guys.

Yeah, that was a pretty glaring plot hole. At least it wasn't as bad as the Chitauri magically losing consciousness when the mother ship was blown up.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Speaking of Thor, how'd he know enough about what happened in Guardians of the Galaxy to know that an infinity gem was involved but not enough that the big threat from his dream vision was Thanos? Also, how much do you want to bet that his important and urgent quest to find out what is behind the infinity gems turning up won't involve popping by Nova Prime and look at the clear and well documented link to Thanos which they came up with without any problem?

 

[credoconsolans]

Finally saw it.

Am a little disturbed that the Avengers went from Captain America 2 and Agents of Shield to walking around and working like everything is normal and Hydra and the government isn't hunting all of Shield down like dogs.

Am I off the timeline? Is Avengers 2 supposed to happen BEFORE Captain America 2?

Otherwise the lack of transition is strange.

Mmmm, still not buying the Natasha/Banner thing. Terrible choice of men. But I guess it's inline with her psychology. Natasha doesn't know how to pick men because men who kill is all she knows. So she picks a nerd, yeah, but one that still kills. She's stuck in her pattern and can't break out of it. I thought she had a thing with Clint - hence her closeness with him in Avengers and the necklace in Cap 2. And excuse me? Clint? Super spy Clint has kiddies and prego wife out in the country?!?! That was as jarring as watching a 007 movie and finding out James has a family out in the Lake District. Completely out of character for the lone wolf image he's supposed to have.

Too many hyperfast actions scenes, you can barely follow what is going on. Watching Quicksilver and Witch was a relief because their scenes slowed the action down since they are basically human. Too much unbelievable jumping around like grasshoppers from everyone else.

And if Ultron is in the internet, he could be ANYwhere, hiding in ANYthing. A virus, basically. I can't imagine they could think because he manifests himself in a suit of armor somewhere that that's "where he is" and they can destroy him. He probably has himself backed up somewhere.

Not convincing.

Nice to see Paul Bettany. But he seems to be the Silver Surfer of this series. Dispassionate, solo, not human, not machine...

And what was with Stark? The man seemed manic. His motivations were all over the place. Boy, his buddy Banner can say no to Natasha easily enough, but he can't say no to Stark. Natasha shouldn't be commenting on Stark and Cap staring into each other's eyes, when it seems Stark has Banner's heart and soul.

Not as good as the last Avengers, but entertaining enough.

6.5/10

 

[Daioh]

And if Ultron is in the internet, he could be ANYwhere, hiding in ANYthing. A virus, basically. I can't imagine they could think because he manifests himself in a suit of armor somewhere that that's "where he is" and they can destroy him. He probably has himself backed up somewhere.

I thought

Show

The Vision essentially hunted down and destroyed all of Ultrons programming from the internet before shutting down his ability to transmit himself into new bodies, thus trapping the "Real" Ultron in his command suit of armour

 

[bigfield]

And if Ultron is in the internet, he could be ANYwhere, hiding in ANYthing. A virus, basically. I can't imagine they could think because he manifests himself in a suit of armor somewhere that that's "where he is" and they can destroy him. He probably has himself backed up somewhere.

I thought

Show

The Vision essentially hunted down and destroyed all of Ultrons programming from the internet before shutting down his ability to transmit himself into new bodies, thus trapping the "Real" Ultron in his command suit of armour

That's how I understood it.

I also double facepalmed as I realised how stupid it was that Vision didn't just end Ultron, there and then. The only thing that saved Ultron in that moment was his temporary Plot Armour.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

SPOILERS

My favorite thing was:

Show

the irony of Stark begetting Ultron who then begot Vision.

Finally saw it.

Am a little disturbed that the Avengers went from Captain America 2 and Agents of Shield to walking around and working like everything is normal and Hydra and the government isn't hunting all of Shield down like dogs.

Am I off the timeline? Is Avengers 2 supposed to happen BEFORE Captain America 2?

I took it the other way. There were no Avengers before Captain America 2. The events of Captain America 2 necessitated the rebanding of The Avengers.

Mmmm, still not buying the Natasha/Banner thing. Terrible choice of men. But I guess it's inline with her psychology. Natasha doesn't know how to pick men because men who kill is all she knows. So she picks a nerd, yeah, but one that still kills. She's stuck in her pattern and can't break out of it. I thought she had a thing with Clint - hence her closeness with him in Avengers and the necklace in Cap 2.

I think it was plot convenience. Whedon is never going to allow a pair of characters to be happy and in love. They are simply both lucky to have survived Whedon's plot at all!

And excuse me? Clint? Super spy Clint has kiddies and prego wife out in the country?!?! That was as jarring as watching a 007 movie and finding out James has a family out in the Lake District. Completely out of character for the lone wolf image he's supposed to have.

I think he was being written out of the plot. But yeah, a little odd.

And if Ultron is in the internet, he could be ANYwhere, hiding in ANYthing. A virus, basically. I can't imagine they could think because he manifests himself in a suit of armor somewhere that that's "where he is" and they can destroy him. He probably has himself backed up somewhere.

Vision saw to that.

Nice to see Paul Bettany. But he seems to be the Silver Surfer of this series. Dispassionate, solo, not human, not machine...

I know nothing of comics, but felt the same way.

And what was with Stark? The man seemed manic. His motivations were all over the place. Boy, his buddy Banner can say no to Natasha easily enough, but he can't say no to Stark. Natasha shouldn't be commenting on Stark and Cap staring into each other's eyes, when it seems Stark has Banner's heart and soul.

Banner did seem a little too easy to convince. Absolutely not! Ok.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Am a little disturbed that the Avengers went from Captain America 2 and Agents of Shield to walking around and working like everything is normal and Hydra and the government isn't hunting all of Shield down like dogs.

Am I off the timeline? Is Avengers 2 supposed to happen BEFORE Captain America 2?

Otherwise the lack of transition is strange.

They dealt with that in the Agents of SHIELD tv show. If you haven't been watching that (and, judging by the ratings, you haven't) then there's a serious continuity gap there.

Nice to see Paul Bettany. But he seems to be the Silver Surfer of this series. Dispassionate, solo, not human, not machine...

Actually, it's looking like he's the Adam Warlock of the series.

And what was with Stark? The man seemed manic. His motivations were all over the place. Boy, his buddy Banner can say no to Natasha easily enough, but he can't say no to Stark. Natasha shouldn't be commenting on Stark and Cap staring into each other's eyes, when it seems Stark has Banner's heart and soul.

I think Banner's thing is avoiding conflict and stress. He gives into Banner and rolls over for Thor because he's terrified of the potential consequences which could result from the stress of standing up for himself. The idea of a relationship similarly terrifies him because he doesn't want to stick any woman with the stress of having to deal with him hulking out, so his saying no to Natasha is just another case of him running away to avoid things.

 

[KeepTalking]

And excuse me? Clint? Super spy Clint has kiddies and prego wife out in the country?!?! That was as jarring as watching a 007 movie and finding out James has a family out in the Lake District. Completely out of character for the lone wolf image he's supposed to have.

I think he was being written out of the plot. But yeah, a little odd.

Yeah, Clint being married (apparently happily), and having kids was the part that put me off the most in the movie. He was married to Mockingbird, who got her relationship with him shifted to Hunter in Agents of SHIELD, so there was no way they were going to pursue that plot line, but he has had so many girlfriends that they could have brought in a known Marvel character for the role. Whoever they used, it should have been rocky relationship, that's the way it is with Hawkeye. Whedon did it on purpose though, all those calls from his "girlfriend" make it seem like they are giving the nod to his comic persona, then they throw it out the window. After watching Avengers 2, i went looking and found out that Jeremy Renner will be featuring as Hawkeye in CA3: Civil War, and has signed on to the third Avengers movie as well, so it wasn't the case of writing him out of the plot, though he does seem to be temporarily out of the Avengers.

And if Ultron is in the internet, he could be ANYwhere, hiding in ANYthing. A virus, basically. I can't imagine they could think because he manifests himself in a suit of armor somewhere that that's "where he is" and they can destroy him. He probably has himself backed up somewhere.

Vision saw to that.

I wouldn't count on Ultron being gone for good. This is Marvel, after all. I wouldn't even count on Quicksilver being gone from the MCU. I half expected to see Scarlet Witch resurrecting her brother at the end.

Nice to see Paul Bettany. But he seems to be the Silver Surfer of this series. Dispassionate, solo, not human, not machine...

I know nothing of comics, but felt the same way.

He is definitely taking on the Adam Warlock role, which is not the same as Silver Surfer, who fulfills a different role with regard to the infinity gems. It is basically the same role Silver Surfer always takes, warning everyone of what is coming, and that is not necessary at this point in the MCU. I like Paul Bettany, and thought he did a great job as Vision. I don't think he was portrayed as all that dispassionate, given his almost immediate positive reaction toward humanity just after he was created.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I think Banner's thing is avoiding conflict and stress. He gives into Banner and rolls over for Thor because he's terrified of the potential consequences which could result from the stress of standing up for himself. The idea of a relationship similarly terrifies him because he doesn't want to stick any woman with the stress of having to deal with him hulking out, so his saying no to Natasha is just another case of him running away to avoid things.

Something to keep in mind was that he wanted her to come with him, but Widow picked Avengers over him.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

I think Banner's thing is avoiding conflict and stress. He gives into Banner and rolls over for Thor because he's terrified of the potential consequences which could result from the stress of standing up for himself. The idea of a relationship similarly terrifies him because he doesn't want to stick any woman with the stress of having to deal with him hulking out, so his saying no to Natasha is just another case of him running away to avoid things.

Something to keep in mind was that he wanted her to come with him, but Widow picked Avengers over him.

True, but that was afterwards and his initial reaction was to her idea of coming with him was that it was a terrible idea she shouldn't even consider. It was only after she got captured and he realized what it was like to lose her that he changed his mind. Then the crazy bitch shoved him off a cliff. I believe that his last "Grrowrrorrr" as he was flying away can be loosely translated as "Fuck that useless cunt. I need to put a few thousand miles between me and this drama queen whore".

On another note, I've noticed that very little of the discussion after the movie has actually focused on Ultron. Spader did a decent job, but really the character came across more as Generic Villian of the Week than any sort of real threat.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Something to keep in mind was that he wanted her to come with him, but Widow picked Avengers over him.

True, but that was afterwards and his initial reaction was to her idea of coming with him was that it was a terrible idea she shouldn't even consider. It was only after she got captured and he realized what it was like to lose her that he changed his mind. Then the crazy bitch shoved him off a cliff. I believe that his last "Grrowrrorrr" as he was flying away can be loosely translated as "Fuck that useless cunt. I need to put a few thousand miles between me and this drama queen whore".

Like I said, she chose The Avengers over Banner. Which probably makes sense for her character and leaving makes sense for Banner's character. That this conflict is natural makes sense why Whedon decided to fuck with them.

On another note, I've noticed that very little of the discussion after the movie has actually focused on Ultron. Spader did a decent job, but really the character came across more as Generic Villian of the Week than any sort of real threat.

I thought Ultron was simply mankind fucking up with trying to make things better. The other issue was that the goal was to get rid of the need for The Avengers, making one wonder if he jumped to the wrong conclusion regarding the meaning of that. That Ultron would then himself fuck up and create something that Ultron was initially supposed to be seemed like actually something that is properly called irony.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

I thought Ultron was simply mankind fucking up with trying to make things better. The other issue was that the goal was to get rid of the need for The Avengers, making one wonder if he jumped to the wrong conclusion regarding the meaning of that. That Ultron would then himself fuck up and create something that Ultron was initially supposed to be seemed like actually something that is properly called irony.

Ultron was an alien AI code that they found had been downloaded into the Mind Gem. They were playing around with it in order to try and understand it and put it into said program when it got activiated and decided to destroy the world. Ultron didn't then fuck up and create the Vision, he got interrupted and Stark inserted Jarvis's code when Ultron's was supposed to go.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I thought Ultron was simply mankind fucking up with trying to make things better. The other issue was that the goal was to get rid of the need for The Avengers, making one wonder if he jumped to the wrong conclusion regarding the meaning of that. That Ultron would then himself fuck up and create something that Ultron was initially supposed to be seemed like actually something that is properly called irony.

Ultron was an alien AI code that they found had been downloaded into the Mind Gem. They were playing around with it in order to try and understand it and put it into said program when it got activiated and decided to destroy the world. Ultron didn't then fuck up and create the Vision, he got interrupted and Stark inserted Jarvis's code when Ultron's was supposed to go.

Well... umm...

...you know...

...shut up!!!

I like my version better, even if it doesn't fit with the story.

 

[Underseer]

In another discussion, I stumbled across an interesting theory about Jarvis vs JARVIS.

Tony grew up with an abusive, distant, mostly-not-there alcoholic father (Howard Stark). That would mean that for Tony, the butler Jarvis would have been more or less a substitute father. Thus when he created an AI, he patterned it after Jarvis. So in effect, JARVIS is the father-companion Tony wishes he had. That might explain why JARVIS gets away with criticizing Tony in ways that he probably wouldn't accept from others.

Anyway, they really screwed up Ultron.

Ultron was created, and within seconds decided to destroy all of humanity. The audience is never given enough time to emotionally process what's going on. Ultron never developed a relationship with his creator, so the audience gets no sense of betrayal when Ultron goes rogue within seconds of being created. More importantly, we don't get to feel the tragedy of an AI created with a prime directive that is actually impossible to fulfill. Instead it's just BANG Ultron exists BANG "I'mna kill everyone. Because."

 

[Nexus]

Ultron was created, and within seconds decided to destroy all of humanity. The audience is never given enough time to emotionally process what's going on. Ultron never developed a relationship with his creator, so the audience gets no sense of betrayal when Ultron goes rogue within seconds of being created. More importantly, we don't get to feel the tragedy of an AI created with a prime directive that is actually impossible to fulfill. Instead it's just BANG Ultron exists BANG "I'mna kill everyone. Because."

Yes, compare this with HAL and the slow build up to his going rogue. Although I suspect if an actual AI was developed and experienced a consciousness singularity it probably would go bad that quickly. It's behavior need not be relatable to us in anyway.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

In another discussion, I stumbled across an interesting theory about Jarvis vs JARVIS.

Tony grew up with an abusive, distant, mostly-not-there alcoholic father (Howard Stark). That would mean that for Tony, the butler Jarvis would have been more or less a substitute father. Thus when he created an AI, he patterned it after Jarvis. So in effect, JARVIS is the father-companion Tony wishes he had. That might explain why JARVIS gets away with criticizing Tony in ways that he probably wouldn't accept from others.

Anyway, they really screwed up Ultron.

Ultron was created, and within seconds decided to destroy all of humanity. The audience is never given enough time to emotionally process what's going on. Ultron never developed a relationship with his creator, so the audience gets no sense of betrayal when Ultron goes rogue within seconds of being created. More importantly, we don't get to feel the tragedy of an AI created with a prime directive that is actually impossible to fulfill. Instead it's just BANG Ultron exists BANG "I'mna kill everyone. Because."

Was there time to develop that part of the plot?? Movie would have been about 3 hours.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Was there time to develop that part of the plot?? Movie would have been about 3 hours.

Ya, it's too bad there wasn't a bunch of useless filler about Hulk falling in love with Black Widow that they could have cut out. Establishing the main villain's motivations instead of just having him show up and say "Hi! I'm off to destroy the world now" is the kind of thing that they should spend a few minutes on.

- - - Updated - - -

Ultron was created, and within seconds decided to destroy all of humanity. The audience is never given enough time to emotionally process what's going on. Ultron never developed a relationship with his creator, so the audience gets no sense of betrayal when Ultron goes rogue within seconds of being created. More importantly, we don't get to feel the tragedy of an AI created with a prime directive that is actually impossible to fulfill. Instead it's just BANG Ultron exists BANG "I'mna kill everyone. Because."

Yes, compare this with HAL and the slow build up to his going rogue. Although I suspect if an actual AI was developed and experienced a consciousness singularity it probably would go bad that quickly. It's behavior need not be relatable to us in anyway.

It does if it's a movie. While it's true that an actual AI would only need a few nanoseconds to process the information and come to a decision, it makes for poor storytelling.

 

[credoconsolans]

I thought

Show

The Vision essentially hunted down and destroyed all of Ultrons programming from the internet before shutting down his ability to transmit himself into new bodies, thus trapping the "Real" Ultron in his command suit of armour

That's how I understood it.

I also double facepalmed as I realised how stupid it was that Vision didn't just end Ultron, there and then. The only thing that saved Ultron in that moment was his temporary Plot Armour.

SPOILERS

And if Ultron is in the internet, he could be ANYwhere, hiding in ANYthing. A virus, basically. I can't imagine they could think because he manifests himself in a suit of armor somewhere that that's "where he is" and they can destroy him. He probably has himself backed up somewhere.

Vision saw to that.

Unless he downloaded himself to a hard drive somewhere and disconnected it from the net. Easy to do a million times. How in the world can Vision find him then?

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Unless he downloaded himself to a hard drive somewhere and disconnected it from the net. Easy to do a million times. How in the world can Vision find him then?

All of Tony Stark's computers couldn't hold all of Ultron's code and they're the most advanced on the planet. That's why they needed the staff there to even examine it because no Earth computer could handle that much data.

If you're going to respond to that by pointing out that Ultron was able to download himself quite fine onto all of Stark's computers which he had in those robots he built, then I'm not going to be able to provide an acceptable comeback.

 

[Underseer]

In another discussion, I stumbled across an interesting theory about Jarvis vs JARVIS.

Tony grew up with an abusive, distant, mostly-not-there alcoholic father (Howard Stark). That would mean that for Tony, the butler Jarvis would have been more or less a substitute father. Thus when he created an AI, he patterned it after Jarvis. So in effect, JARVIS is the father-companion Tony wishes he had. That might explain why JARVIS gets away with criticizing Tony in ways that he probably wouldn't accept from others.

Anyway, they really screwed up Ultron.

Ultron was created, and within seconds decided to destroy all of humanity. The audience is never given enough time to emotionally process what's going on. Ultron never developed a relationship with his creator, so the audience gets no sense of betrayal when Ultron goes rogue within seconds of being created. More importantly, we don't get to feel the tragedy of an AI created with a prime directive that is actually impossible to fulfill. Instead it's just BANG Ultron exists BANG "I'mna kill everyone. Because."

Was there time to develop that part of the plot?? Movie would have been about 3 hours.

That's exactly why they should have used another movie (such as Iron Man 3) to establish the villain, explain the backstory, etc.

After all, they used all of Thor to set up Loki, explain his motivations, establish empathy for him, etc., so that they didn't have to do any of that crap in the first Avengers movie.