Baltimore Bridges and Diversity

[Jimmy Higgins]

So, when a massive bridge collapsed in Baltimore, there was a question, where do you post a thread about that? It isn't political... big boat hit a structure and it collapsed. Nothing remotely political about that. Seems like an accident. I suppose we don't need a thread on every event.

And then the GOP said "Hold my beer."

Republicans previously criticized Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg as not visiting East Palestine, Ohio, quickly enough after a toxic train derailment there last year. But after the secretary visited Baltimore on the day of the bridge collapse, Rep. Jeff Van Drew (R-N.J.) suggested without evidence that the visit was politically motivated and that Buttigieg was preoccupied with diversity policies.

“Well, this is an election year, so he probably, if it was two years ago might have been a month before he went at all,” Van Drew told Fox Business Network’s Maria Bartiromo on Wednesday. “He’s worried too much about pronouns, worried too much about DEI policies, worried too much about being the cool kid on the block. … I’m disappointed in the job that he does.”

Umm... okaaaaaaaay.

Utah state Rep. Phil Lyman (R) blamed DEI policies for the bridge collapse. The Utah gubernatorial candidate running against Gov. Spencer Cox (R) shared a post online attacking Port of Baltimore Commissioner Karenthia Barber, a Black woman whose biography says she owns a consulting practice that takes on work related to DEI. Responding to the post about Barber’s background, Lyman wrote on X on Tuesday morning that “this is what happens when you have Governors who prioritize diversity over the wellbeing and security of citizens.” In a subsequent post referencing the collision, he said: “DEI = DIE.”

So now we have diversity is bad because it makes bridges collapse after large boats strike a pier.

The GOP has apparently got nothing. They went all-in on CRT, made a little progress, but now they seem to forgot about principles of governing and are exclusively targeting identity politics. Wait... something just came in.

In an interview with Sen. Rick Scott (R-Fla.) on Tuesday morning, Bartiromo, the Fox Business Network host, attempted to connect the incident to broader questions about “the potential for wrongdoing or the potential for foul play given the wide-open border.” And also that morning, Matt Schlapp, the chairman of the American Conservative Union, discussed his concerns about an unqualified, “drug-addled” workforce hamstrung by covid lockdowns.

Oh... and immigrants! Identity politics, immigrants, and ... Covid? Reaching the point of why even bother.

 

[scombrid]

A couple days worth of Blackwater Security’s Iraq budget would have put bumpers to guard the piers. Look at the bumpers that got installed after the Skyway Bridge got knocked down.

 

[scombrid]

Nah. If Bubba the Love Sponge and Larry The Cable Guy had been piloting the ship it wouldn’t have crashed.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

A couple days worth of Blackwater Security’s Iraq budget would have put bumpers to guard the piers. Look at the bumpers that got installed after the Skyway Bridge got knocked down.

That ship is huge. I don't know what size bumper would have deflected it. Of course, if we passed a bill to get bumpers on bridges at every port, then the GOP would be railing about scare tactics and deficit spending.

 

[Shadowy Man]

So, when a massive bridge collapsed in Baltimore, there was a question, where do you post a thread about that? It isn't political... big boat hit a structure and it collapsed. Nothing remotely political about that. Seems like an accident. I suppose we don't need a thread on every event.

And then the GOP said "Hold my beer."

Republicans previously criticized Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg as not visiting East Palestine, Ohio, quickly enough after a toxic train derailment there last year. But after the secretary visited Baltimore on the day of the bridge collapse, Rep. Jeff Van Drew (R-N.J.) suggested without evidence that the visit was politically motivated and that Buttigieg was preoccupied with diversity policies.

doesn’t Pete work in DC? Baltimore is very close to DC so it’s a quick trip.

 

[ideologyhunter]

This is classic GOP rhetoric. Newt Gingrich used to do it reflexively. When Susan Smith murdered her two sons in '94, when Columbine High School had its massacre, and when Virginia Tech had an even worse mass murder in '07, Gingrich blamed the crimes on liberals. Nothing about the conservative push to let all citizens own and deploy combat weapons.

 

[Politesse]

I don't know what size bumper would have deflected it.

Bumpers do work, though they work better as part of an integrated plan than as an afterthought. The goal isn't to wholly absorb the collision, only to deflect the energy of the blow so as to prevent the collapse of the structure. The US had faced an accident of a similar kind in 2007, when the container ship Cosco Busan struck the San Francisco - Oakland Bay Bridge in heavy fog. It was a ship of similar class to the Dali, though twenty meters shorter. The allision tore a massive gash in the ship, and poured millions of gallons of oil into the bay. A disaster of one kind. But the bridge itself sustained very little damage, and even the boat was recovered, refurbished, and remained in operation for another decade.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I don't know what size bumper would have deflected it.

Bumpers do work, though they work better as part of an integrated plan than as an afterthought. The goal isn't to wholly absorb the collision, only to deflect the energy of the blow so as to prevent the collapse of the structure. The US had faced an accident of a similar kind in 2007, when the container ship Cosco Busan struck the San Francisco - Oakland Bay Bridge in heavy fog. It was a ship of similar class to the Dali, though twenty meters shorter. The allision tore a massive gash in the ship, and poured millions of gallons of oil into the bay. A disaster of one kind. But the bridge itself sustained very little damage, and even the boat was recovered, refurbished, and remained in operation for another decade.

It could have helped, but this thing almost smacked the pier straight on. It looks like Cosco Busan grazed the pier. Also, the pier itself is a lot beefier than what the Baltimore bridge had. Don't know whether the impact, as it occurred would still have shifted the pier enough to initiate a collapse.

 

[Politesse]

I don't know what size bumper would have deflected it.

Bumpers do work, though they work better as part of an integrated plan than as an afterthought. The goal isn't to wholly absorb the collision, only to deflect the energy of the blow so as to prevent the collapse of the structure. The US had faced an accident of a similar kind in 2007, when the container ship Cosco Busan struck the San Francisco - Oakland Bay Bridge in heavy fog. It was a ship of similar class to the Dali, though twenty meters shorter. The allision tore a massive gash in the ship, and poured millions of gallons of oil into the bay. A disaster of one kind. But the bridge itself sustained very little damage, and even the boat was recovered, refurbished, and remained in operation for another decade.

It could have helped, but this thing almost smacked the pier straight on. It looks like Cosco Busan grazed the pier. Also, the pier itself is a lot beefier than what the Baltimore bridge had. Don't know whether the impact, as it occurred would still have shifted the pier enough to initiate a collapse.

That is what a bumper is meant to do. Turn collisions into allisions.

 

[thebeave]

I don't know what size bumper would have deflected it.

Bumpers do work, though they work better as part of an integrated plan than as an afterthought. The goal isn't to wholly absorb the collision, only to deflect the energy of the blow so as to prevent the collapse of the structure. The US had faced an accident of a similar kind in 2007, when the container ship Cosco Busan struck the San Francisco - Oakland Bay Bridge in heavy fog. It was a ship of similar class to the Dali, though twenty meters shorter. The allision tore a massive gash in the ship, and poured millions of gallons of oil into the bay. A disaster of one kind. But the bridge itself sustained very little damage, and even the boat was recovered, refurbished, and remained in operation for another decade.

I'd forgotten about that. Bumpers are a good idea, but the solution to the collision problem is to focus on keeping boats from losing power and getting out of control in the first place. I don't think its economically feasible to design bridges to be able to accomodate a head-on collision from a worst case ship scenario. My curiousity in this accident is mostly on the circumstances behind how the ship suddenly lost all power and controllability. I would think a pre-launch checklist and regular maintence checks would have prevented this from happening in the first place. I doubt DEI has anything to do with it, but I admit I will get suspicious if we find out the captain of the ship is a black gay midget on his first mission.

 

[TomC]

I would think a pre-launch checklist and regular maintence checks would have prevented this from happening in the first place. I doubt DEI has anything to do with it, but I admit I will get suspicious if we find out the captain of the ship is a black gay midget on his first mission.

Honestly, when I think about it, gazillions of gigantic ships enter and leave ports under similar circumstances all the time. If anything, such catastrophic events are surprisingly rare. If I were a betting man though, my money would be on some form of management cost containment crap.
Tom

 

[hurtinbuckaroo]

A couple days worth of Blackwater Security’s Iraq budget would have put bumpers to guard the piers. Look at the bumpers that got installed after the Skyway Bridge got knocked down.

That ship is huge. I don't know what size bumper would have deflected it. Of course, if we passed a bill to get bumpers on bridges at every port, then the GOP would be railing about scare tactics and deficit spending.

“A good guy with a gun could have stopped that ship.”

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Ships don't collapse bridges, people with ships do.

 

[TV and credit cards]

Of what useful purpose is Buttigieg's person on scene? He belongs in the background coordinating. This is political bullcrap. After Mt. Pinatubo erupted, the captain in charge of the base wasn't traipsing around surveying damage. He was sitting at his big oak conference table receiving reports from his lackey who was taking phone calls and was doing the best he could. It was chaos. Everyone was calling and calling again with questions but I didn't need questions, I needed status reports, goddammit lieutenant!

Why didn't the ship stay on emergency generator power until they cleared the harbor? Would that have been proper procedure? It looked like they dropped the load. Switched to emergency generator power and then tried to restart the boiler (black smoke from stack (some knob on MSNBC called it a chimney)). Where they on one boiler leaving port? Are they allowed to be during restricted maneuvering of a harbor? But now they've slowed enough that they lost steerageway. And do they have someone in aft steering entering and exiting port? I know of a fine organization that does.

 

[ideologyhunter]

I doubt DEI has anything to do with it, but I admit I will get suspicious if we find out the captain of the ship is a black gay midget on his first mission.

I was hoping the skipper was Mortimer Greene, Marjorie's former identical twin, and now transgendered hard right activist, who was busy reading Trump's overnight expulsions on Truth Social.

 

[scombrid]

Sunshine Skyway reinforcements after getting slammed in 1980 versus the totally unprotected kee bridge.

 

[scombrid]

Why didn't the ship stay on emergency generator power until they cleared the harbor? Would that have been proper procedure? It looked like they dropped the load. Switched to emergency generator power and then tried to restart the boiler (black smoke from stack (some knob on MSNBC called it a chimney)). Where they on one boiler leaving port? Are they allowed to be during restricted maneuvering of a harbor? But now they've slowed enough that they lost steerageway. And do they have someone in aft steering entering and exiting port? I know of a fine organization that does.

Judging by the stern swinging to port while the black smoke billowed they briefly restarted the main and it was powered hard astern with rudders locked to port. Of course that allowed the bow to drift further to starboard. Not sure what was going on with auxiliary power or the bow thruster. Seems a total power failure and loss of multiple systems.

From Wikipedia:
Dali is propelled by a single low-speed two-stroke crosshead diesel engine coupled to a fixed-pitch propeller. Her main engine, a 9-cylinder MAN-B&W 9S90ME-C9.2[11] unit manufactured by Hyundai Heavy Industries under license, is rated 41,480 kW (55,630 hp) at 82.5 rpm.[2] Her service speed is 22 knots (41 km/h; 25 mph).[5] For maneuvering in ports, Dali has a single 3,000 kW (4,000 hp) bow thruster. Electricity is generated onboard by two 3,840 kW (5,150 hp) and two 4,400 kW (5,900 hp) auxiliary diesel generators.[4]

 

[thebeave]

I would think a pre-launch checklist and regular maintence checks would have prevented this from happening in the first place. I doubt DEI has anything to do with it, but I admit I will get suspicious if we find out the captain of the ship is a black gay midget on his first mission.

Honestly, when I think about it, gazillions of gigantic ships enter and leave ports under similar circumstances all the time. If anything, such catastrophic events are surprisingly rare. If I were a betting man though, my money would be on some form of management cost containment crap.
Tom

I think its akin to lots of aircraft accidents. Its often a "comedy of errors" (even though its not funny). Many small goofs, misunderstandings and inexperienced crew members all combining to lead to a catastrophic accident. Or maybe the captain was drunk, like the Exxon Valdez captain.

 

[marc]

Reason for having Buttigieg show up was to avoid the criticisms that would have come about the government doing nothing, like after the train derailment. Of course it is totally useless to have him or the president there in person, but that gets conflated with not caring/ not doing anything.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

People died, it is a major national port, huge bridge fell. This is a bit bigger than the East Palestine train derailment.