Barbie! Oh Noes!

[Gospel]

Challenge to all men: walk around the block wearing a pair of high heel shoes.

I'd rather go sky diving as a grand entry into deep sea diving than wear high heels.

I've done both. And, no, walking around the block in high heels would be better than jumping out of a perfectly good plane wearing scuba gear.
Tom

To you? Yeah I agree.

 

[TomC]

I have lived a long life paying no attention to Barbie. No all of a sudden we have the new Barbie movie.

I've never really thought about it before,
but considering how merchable Barbie has been for about 60 years and the movie industry, it's surprising to me now that there wasn't a big deal Barbie movie 40 years ago.

It should be a major franchise by now, eclipsing stuff like Star Wars and Lost Ark and such.
Tom

 

[TSwizzle]

Challenge to all men: walk around the block wearing a pair of high heel shoes.

Pfffft, plenty men do that on the West Side, effortlessly. Dylan Mulvaney springs to mind.

 

[TomC]

I used to have a pair of shoes I called my high heels.

They were my dancing shoes. High quality cowboy boots with heels about 2.5". I danced those things for years. I had at least five sole replacements and seven sets of heels. I loved those boots.

At 6'4", I didn't need the height. But they fit perfectly and could slide for days.
Tom

 

[ZiprHead]

cause that ain't fair to all the white candidates out there.

Every candidate should be evaluated on their merit. And Dems have not put a man on SCOTUS since 1994 - almost 30 years ago!

Does that mean that the candidates weren't evaluated on their merits? The nomination isn't the evaluation, the confirmation hearing is. If female candidates aren't qualified for the job they shouldn't get confirmed.

Merit? Jebus! The people who make the list to be on SCOTUS have very very little separating themselves from the others regarding merit. They are generally extremely qualified.

Not really.

Trump Picks More ‘Not Qualified’ Judges (1)

More of Donald Trump’s judicial picks have received “not qualified” ratings from the American Bar Association than did those nominated by his four most-recent predecessors in the first two years of their presidencies, Bloomberg Law research shows.

news.bloomberglaw.com

 

[Toni]

I used to have a pair of shoes I called my high heels.

They were my dancing shoes. High quality cowboy boots with heels about 2.5". I danced those things for years. I had at least five sole replacements and seven sets of heels. I loved those boots.

At 6'4", I didn't need the height. But they fit perfectly and could slide for days.
Tom

2.5” heel height is t much for someone if your height ( and foot size). OTOH, a 3 or 4 inch heel for someone my height, with a foot size that is…8 inches, that’s a big heel. Actually, I can wear a boys size 3 1/2 sneaker but I don’t anymore because they don’t have the support structure my old body needs.

 

[TomC]

2.5” heel height is t much for someone if your height ( and foot size).

Quite true.
My dancing shoes made me close to 6'7".

That's kinda ridiculous.
But they were great for dancing. As long as I had a steady supply of Jack&Coke I was good to go.
Tom

 

[Gospel]

Challenge to all men: walk around the block wearing a pair of high heel shoes.

Pfffft, plenty men do that on the West Side, effortlessly. Dylan Mulvaney springs to mind.

This is so wrong yet funny at the same time.

 

[Politesse]

I've never really thought about it before,
but considering how merchable Barbie has been for about 60 years and the movie industry, it's surprising to me now that there wasn't a big deal Barbie movie 40 years ago.

I take it you haven't got any small female humans around the house, haha. There most certainly is a franchise of Barbie things, movies included. But until now, Mattel has assumed little girls to be its target audience, so they were not investing in quality, just quantity. There have been, in case you don't feel like clicking on the link, a total of 42 full length animated films, well over 400 books and comic books, and four television series. They never made the jump to the general public before now, but the whole franchise has been pulling in millions for them, going on twenty-five years.

 

[Arctish]

I've never really thought about it before,
but considering how merchable Barbie has been for about 60 years and the movie industry, it's surprising to me now that there wasn't a big deal Barbie movie 40 years ago.

I take it you haven't got any small female humans around the house, haha. There most certainly is a franchise of Barbie things, movies included. But until now, Mattel has assumed little girls to be its target audience, so they were not investing in quality, just quantity. There have been, in case you don't feel like clicking on the link, a total of 42 full length animated films, well over 400 books and comic books, and four television series. They never made the jump to the general public before now, but the whole franchise has been pulling in millions for them, going on twenty-five years.

Just to clarify, what makes this movie a big deal isn't that it stars Barbie. As Cheerful Charlie said, it's a social satire. There are some shrewd observations and sharp critiques in that sea of pink, delivered in an intelligent, enjoyable manner.

It has more in common with Gulliver's Travels than it does with the likes of Barbie in The Nutcracker, or Barbie: Princess Charm School.

 

[Politesse]

I've never really thought about it before,
but considering how merchable Barbie has been for about 60 years and the movie industry, it's surprising to me now that there wasn't a big deal Barbie movie 40 years ago.

I take it you haven't got any small female humans around the house, haha. There most certainly is a franchise of Barbie things, movies included. But until now, Mattel has assumed little girls to be its target audience, so they were not investing in quality, just quantity. There have been, in case you don't feel like clicking on the link, a total of 42 full length animated films, well over 400 books and comic books, and four television series. They never made the jump to the general public before now, but the whole franchise has been pulling in millions for them, going on twenty-five years.

Just to clarify, what makes this movie a big deal isn't that it stars Barbie. As Cheerful Charlie said, it's a social satire. There are some shrewd observations and sharp critiques in that sea of pink, delivered in an intelligent, enjoyable manner.

It has more in common with Gulliver's Travels than it does with the likes of Barbie in The Nutcracker, or Barbie: Princess Charm School.

Agreed. Though, its artistic creators likely wanted different things from this film than its financiers; Tom is not intuitively wrong that the Mattel likely saw this investment as their foray into a possible massive expansion of their already massive existing franchise; hiring Greta Gerwig to direct and giving the production something of a blank check is a bit like Hallmark hiring Maya Angelou to write greeting cards for them.

 

[Arctish]

I can see Mattel expecting the Barbie movie to be like the LEGO movie, and hoping it would do the same thing for toy sales. The sales uptick will probably happen but the movie isn't likely to spawn a lot of sequels.

BTW, the movie contains a neat little Easter egg in the form of the teenaged girl and her friends at school:

Show

They're based on the Bratz dolls, which were created by a former Mattel employee

 

[Politesse]

The sales uptick will probably happen but the movie isn't likely to spawn a lot of sequels.

Maybe yes, maybe no. This film made a $162 million dollars on opening weekend, in an industry obsessed with cross-media franchise creation. Some attempt at recapturing that fire is almost assured. But I do think that if/when. there are sequels, I think they will greatly differ in character and probably in quality unless they manage to pull off a Pixar.

Maybe they can bribe Oliver Stone to release a Niels Bohr biopic on Barbie 2's opening weekend. Bohrbie 2 Electric Lipstick Tube.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

In the future, after DJT has been convicted, failed to get re-elected, and has died, somebody is going to do a movie, "Lock Him Up! The Rise And Fall Of Donald J. Trump". It will be cruel, savage, and full of brutal humor. It will make huge piles of money.

 

[jab]

Barbie opened big -- 70 million big, on opening day, which shows me that I know nothing about the box office these days. The promos look revolting to me, and every Gosling close up shows us that Ken has the forehead creases of a 43-year-old man.
Fun facts about the "real" Barbie (the plastic one):
Actual special edition Barbies of the past: George Washington Barbie (Colonial theme); Barbie Forever with Tanner (he was a pooping dog, and was sold with his poop); Totally Stylin' Tattoos Barbie (with 40 tattoo stickers so you could tramp stamp her); Coca Cola Barbie (because Barbie wouldn't sell out); Student Teacher Barbie; Computer Engineer Barbie; Ghost Barbie; Alfred Hitchcock's The Birds Barbie. I know there's room for satirical fake additions to the list, but could they top the real ones? (Please, please, no MAGA Barbie.)

The movie knowlingly presents Sharon Tate Barbie.
Hows about Margie Well-Taylored Green?, I thought, while I was watching the movie.

 

[jab]

I haven't seen it, so I can't say if it is good or bad.

I wonder how many of its critics can say that.

I also wonder how many of its defenders can say that.

Saw it--and thought it's not very good, and gets humongously preachy in the last 1/3, but then I'm 71 yrs, old. My 8-yr.-old grand-niece, whom I treated, along with her mother and my sister (her grandmother)--well the 8-year old girl really liked it.

 

[jab]

I don

I saw the movie. Barbie Land is initially faux woke. It's a fake world in a fake movie. The barbies live in a virtual matriarchy premised on barbie inspiring women's accomplishments in the real world. For ppl who think there is a message, they are deranged. It is clear the Barbies are clueless. Next, Barbie and Ken go to the real world and Ken sees patriarchical features and successes of men. He runs back to Barbie land to start a MRA revolution. It's fucking silly and humorous. It's a fucking movie. Then, Barbie goes back to Barbie land and undoes Ken's revolution, but she comes back "enlightened" to the contradictions of female identity and successes in the real world. So they are a matriarchy again, sort of, but Ken is also heard and men are being nominated to federal circuit judge positions just not Supreme Court yet. It's an obvious parody to real world history but in reverse. There's way more to the movie than political structure absurdity that conservatives scream about. I've just focused on that part in the post. Also, did I mention it's a silly movie that only morons or propagandists would take seriously?

I think you must not have listened to America Ferrera's speech then. I'm linking it here. I'd copy and paste the whole thing but I don't want to violate any copyright rules (even tho this is widely available on many media outlets:

Here's Every Word of America Ferrera's Big ‘Barbie’ Monologue

It took 30 takes to get, and Ferrera and Greta Gerwig spent months revising it.

www.elle.com

Every single word rang true and that's for me, an older middle class woman who never was a fan of Barbie. I can only imagine if you start throwing in poverty, being queer or not white, abused, dyslexic, disabled, etc. Or just underpaid and overworked, with or without kids but kids adds a whole lot of different layers to it all because still, however the kids turn out, it's the mom's fault, 100%.

I don't see that in conflict with what he said. It reminds me of Ginsburg's SCOTUS being all women being a shocking thought when it was all male for close to two hundred years.

And that's the problem. I like Don but he sees this as 'fake.' It's real. It's reality for every single girl and woman you or anyone else knows --at least in the US and I suspect in most of the Western world. Some have internalized it more than others to the extent that they don't even question it anymore. Think about it. Think about the maternal mortality rate in the US. Think about Serena Williams and Torie Bowie whose names most of us know and the many, many women whose names we don't know.

It's just not your reality.

We are discussing a movie in which faux feminists created a matriarchy. If you think that is real or proclaim it to be real, you are feeding into conservative paranoia. Feminism is about equality, not matriarchy. This was a movie and it was a comedy and like all comedies, it has some serious tidbits and moments but it remains a work of fiction. This monologue was one step away from one of those serious kind of moments in a comedy when a monologue happens as a crowd gathers around and then one guy starts clapping and it's the impetus for more clapping by the crowd. These are usually quite good and meaningful monologues but still fiction, even if meaningful.

Sure, I am a man who saw the movie and my wife is a woman who saw the movie and she thinks the whole bruhaha is ridiculous. Identity politics doesn't trump logic here, though. It's the content of the message and whether it is logical, not the color or gender of the person saying it. In this particular case of the fictional speech inside a fictional movie, yeah, sure there are bits of truth and seriousness, but there is also hyperbole meant as expression in a backdrop of comedy. Hyperbole remains hyperbole, even if there are rampant society and cultural biases against women. It is not 100% the woman's fault in our culture, even if the woman does most often get the short-end of the stick. For example, both Trump's parents are blamed for how he is raised. And Trump himself is blamed for how his spoiled children ended up. I got some blame myself as a stay-at-home dad for being flexible with my son during the pandemic during his school hours for letting him be more independent. Both parents get some blame some of the time. You are quoting a movie. A movie.

We live in a society of hyper-privilege where people have time to debate the Barbie movie. The Barbie movie and most of the people debating haven't even seen it! In the real world, there are institutional powers and patriarchal features literally killing females, trans persons, and minorities. Most recently a store owner was killed because she had a pride flag outside the store. The things that conservative institutions want to implement are that bad. Their clarion call right now is that the Barbie movie is feminist propaganda to brainwash young girls into forming a matriarchy and this is classic projection because we know they want the Make America Great Again patriarchy as they push back on freedoms for women.

I think it is important to tell them how absurd they are and not to validate their nightmares with hyperbolic language, including promoting the fictional work as reality.

It's capitalist propaganda to make feminists feel its more than okay to buy your daughter Barbies and their accoutrements becasue, well, Barbie is a feminist thing, and not really sexualized, because, because, because uh, the dolls don't have genitalia.

 

[jab]

I don

I saw the movie. Barbie Land is initially faux woke. It's a fake world in a fake movie. The barbies live in a virtual matriarchy premised on barbie inspiring women's accomplishments in the real world. For ppl who think there is a message, they are deranged. It is clear the Barbies are clueless. Next, Barbie and Ken go to the real world and Ken sees patriarchical features and successes of men. He runs back to Barbie land to start a MRA revolution. It's fucking silly and humorous. It's a fucking movie. Then, Barbie goes back to Barbie land and undoes Ken's revolution, but she comes back "enlightened" to the contradictions of female identity and successes in the real world. So they are a matriarchy again, sort of, but Ken is also heard and men are being nominated to federal circuit judge positions just not Supreme Court yet. It's an obvious parody to real world history but in reverse. There's way more to the movie than political structure absurdity that conservatives scream about. I've just focused on that part in the post. Also, did I mention it's a silly movie that only morons or propagandists would take seriously?

I think you must not have listened to America Ferrera's speech then. I'm linking it here. I'd copy and paste the whole thing but I don't want to violate any copyright rules (even tho this is widely available on many media outlets:

Here's Every Word of America Ferrera's Big ‘Barbie’ Monologue

It took 30 takes to get, and Ferrera and Greta Gerwig spent months revising it.

www.elle.com

Every single word rang true and that's for me, an older middle class woman who never was a fan of Barbie. I can only imagine if you start throwing in poverty, being queer or not white, abused, dyslexic, disabled, etc. Or just underpaid and overworked, with or without kids but kids adds a whole lot of different layers to it all because still, however the kids turn out, it's the mom's fault, 100%.

I don't see that in conflict with what he said. It reminds me of Ginsburg's SCOTUS being all women being a shocking thought when it was all male for close to two hundred years.

And that's the problem. I like Don but he sees this as 'fake.' It's real. It's reality for every single girl and woman you or anyone else knows --at least in the US and I suspect in most of the Western world. Some have internalized it more than others to the extent that they don't even question it anymore. Think about it. Think about the maternal mortality rate in the US. Think about Serena Williams and Torie Bowie whose names most of us know and the many, many women whose names we don't know.

It's just not your reality.

I emphasized Don2's text that I believe makes your observation overly simplified on Don2's take of the film.

Regarding your "my reality" quip, it is certainly accurate. Which is why I try to listen and observe. Small observations, statements, hints from posters here, my nieces, other women I know do carry a bunch of weight an influence my understanding on being a woman. It isn't easy. Growing up a guy, in a world tailored for heterosexual men creates a distorted view of the world. Doesn't mean I'm not trying to understand..

All movies are ‘fake,’ including biographies and histories. It’s just interesting and sad to read that the movie is faux woke. I expected much more.

Have you seen the movie? or are you just responding to reportage? It struck me as one of those typical big budget Hollywood movies, t. v. shows, trying to have it both ways .

 

[Toni]

I've never really thought about it before,
but considering how merchable Barbie has been for about 60 years and the movie industry, it's surprising to me now that there wasn't a big deal Barbie movie 40 years ago.

I take it you haven't got any small female humans around the house, haha. There most certainly is a franchise of Barbie things, movies included. But until now, Mattel has assumed little girls to be its target audience, so they were not investing in quality, just quantity. There have been, in case you don't feel like clicking on the link, a total of 42 full length animated films, well over 400 books and comic books, and four television series. They never made the jump to the general public before now, but the whole franchise has been pulling in millions for them, going on twenty-five years.

Just to clarify, what makes this movie a big deal isn't that it stars Barbie. As Cheerful Charlie said, it's a social satire. There are some shrewd observations and sharp critiques in that sea of pink, delivered in an intelligent, enjoyable manner.

It has more in common with Gulliver's Travels than it does with the likes of Barbie in The Nutcracker, or Barbie: Princess Charm School.

Agreed. Though, its artistic creators likely wanted different things from this film than its financiers; Tom is not intuitively wrong that the Mattel likely saw this investment as their foray into a possible massive expansion of their already massive existing franchise; hiring Greta Gerwig to direct and giving the production something of a blank check is a bit like Hallmark hiring Maya Angelou to write greeting cards for them.

I’m pretty sure that this movie was not Mattel’s idea and they did not hire Greta Gerwig to direct it. In fact, a live action Barbie movie had been in the works for years with Anne Hathaway and with Any Schumer pitched as leads. Margot Robbie and Warner owned the rights to the film and got Greta Gerwig to sign on.

Yes, Mattel is smart enough to see the marketing possibilities which have gone wild and even inspired an HGTV Barbie Dream House Renovation competition show ( god help me, I watched most of all of the episodes.).

 

[Toni]

I don

I saw the movie. Barbie Land is initially faux woke. It's a fake world in a fake movie. The barbies live in a virtual matriarchy premised on barbie inspiring women's accomplishments in the real world. For ppl who think there is a message, they are deranged. It is clear the Barbies are clueless. Next, Barbie and Ken go to the real world and Ken sees patriarchical features and successes of men. He runs back to Barbie land to start a MRA revolution. It's fucking silly and humorous. It's a fucking movie. Then, Barbie goes back to Barbie land and undoes Ken's revolution, but she comes back "enlightened" to the contradictions of female identity and successes in the real world. So they are a matriarchy again, sort of, but Ken is also heard and men are being nominated to federal circuit judge positions just not Supreme Court yet. It's an obvious parody to real world history but in reverse. There's way more to the movie than political structure absurdity that conservatives scream about. I've just focused on that part in the post. Also, did I mention it's a silly movie that only morons or propagandists would take seriously?

I think you must not have listened to America Ferrera's speech then. I'm linking it here. I'd copy and paste the whole thing but I don't want to violate any copyright rules (even tho this is widely available on many media outlets:

Here's Every Word of America Ferrera's Big ‘Barbie’ Monologue

It took 30 takes to get, and Ferrera and Greta Gerwig spent months revising it.

www.elle.com

Every single word rang true and that's for me, an older middle class woman who never was a fan of Barbie. I can only imagine if you start throwing in poverty, being queer or not white, abused, dyslexic, disabled, etc. Or just underpaid and overworked, with or without kids but kids adds a whole lot of different layers to it all because still, however the kids turn out, it's the mom's fault, 100%.

I don't see that in conflict with what he said. It reminds me of Ginsburg's SCOTUS being all women being a shocking thought when it was all male for close to two hundred years.

And that's the problem. I like Don but he sees this as 'fake.' It's real. It's reality for every single girl and woman you or anyone else knows --at least in the US and I suspect in most of the Western world. Some have internalized it more than others to the extent that they don't even question it anymore. Think about it. Think about the maternal mortality rate in the US. Think about Serena Williams and Torie Bowie whose names most of us know and the many, many women whose names we don't know.

It's just not your reality.

I emphasized Don2's text that I believe makes your observation overly simplified on Don2's take of the film.

Regarding your "my reality" quip, it is certainly accurate. Which is why I try to listen and observe. Small observations, statements, hints from posters here, my nieces, other women I know do carry a bunch of weight an influence my understanding on being a woman. It isn't easy. Growing up a guy, in a world tailored for heterosexual men creates a distorted view of the world. Doesn't mean I'm not trying to understand..

All movies are ‘fake,’ including biographies and histories. It’s just interesting and sad to read that the movie is faux woke. I expected much more.

Have you seen the movie? or are you just responding to reportage? It struck me as one of those typical big budget Hollywood movies, t. v. shows, trying to have it both ways .

As I said previously I’ve seen the movie and I want to see it again. I had NOT seen it when I posted fir the first time in this thread but I have seen it as of a couple of weeks ago.